Bailiff/PCN Fine - looking for son who does not live here.. help

[Peterbard]

I dont see the relevance as the son would never have been on the council tax bill in any case nor any of the other documents mentioned as he was not the householder.

[unclebulgaria67]

I dont see the relevance as the son would never have been on the council tax bill in any case nor any of the other documents mentioned as he was not the householder.

 

What is your advice to the OP ?

 

At least a CT bill shows that the OP has a relationship with a Council and is paying them tax. Yes it does not show who lives at the address and only some form of declaration for benefits might show that.

 

But in the meantime the OP has a Council and EA looking at his address thinking of money.

[Bailiff Advice]

The letter sent to you is not relevant. All that has happened is the Enforcement Agent has reported back to their office that the person does not live at your address and a generic letter has been sent.

 

They will continue to try to enforce, so probably best to respond with a copy of your council tax bill and list of who is resident. Advise them that your Son who they are seeking has not resided with you for 18 months. They are not really entitled to this information, but if they come back, you have responded and can escalate a complaint to the council, taking it up with the LGO if appropriate. If you complained to the Council now, they will tell you to deal with the Enforcement company.

 

Unfortunately Councils are struggling for funds and Enforcement companies are eager to make money. They can't trace your Son, so will target your address, believing he is hiding in a wardrobe somewhere. Hence why you should respond in writing and then have something which you can use later as part of a complaint if needed.

 

Good response UB.

[Peterbard]

Everyone who has a property has a "relationship- with the council".

[Bailiff Advice]

I dont see the relevance as the son would never have been on the council tax bill in any case nor any of the other documents mentioned as he was not the householder.

 

And in fact, the other documentation (list below) is just plain daft.

 

Current utility bill showing the names of the current occupiers

 

Current occupiers names

 

Date you occupied the property

 

Purchasing solicitors details

 

Forwarding address and telephone number for the former occupier

 

Nonetheless, if providing a council tax bill means that the enforcement company stop pestering the father, it may well be wise to provide a copy.

 

However.....all enforcement companies have excellent 'tracing' facilities and their first method of tracing will be to view the electoral role. If the son is still registered on the ER then this can be a problem.

[Peterbard]

How the hell; is sending a copy of you tax bill going to prove the son is not hiding in the wardrobe.

 

So this means that all the bailiff has to do is get hold of a debtor and he can ask all these details from any related family member ?

 

This is even though it has no relationship to the debt and proves nothing about where the debtor actually is ?

[unclebulgaria67]

How the hell; is sending a copy of you tax bill going to prove the son is not hiding in the wardrobe.

 

So this means that all the bailiff has to do is get hold of a debtor and he can ask all these details from any related family member ?

 

This is even though it has no relationship to the debt and proves nothing about where the debtor actually is ?

 

Do we need another debate again ?

 

The OP is seeking practical advice about what to do.

 

What is YOUR advice in this situation ?

 

Otherwise it just debate and commentary !

[Peterbard]

My advice is just to repeat that the debtor does not reside at that address, but i do not believe this is a genuine case anyway so it is just commentary, no matter what you say.

[Bailiff Advice]

How the hell; is sending a copy of you tax bill going to prove the son is not hiding in the wardrobe.

 

So this means that all the bailiff has to do is get hold of a debtor and he can ask all these details from any related family member ?

 

This is even though it has no relationship to the debt and proves nothing about where the debtor actually is ?

 

For as long as I can remember, bailiff companies have asked for copies of council tax bills in such circumstances. It is daft because as you have rightly stated, it does not prove that the son is not at home.

 

Nonetheless, if sending a copy satisfies the enforcement company, then I would advise providing it.

[Peterbard]

If so, this is definitely a breach of the Data Protection Act because all information requested must be relavant.

[Mike_R_S]

Hello again All,

Thanks for all the info and debate. As someone stated I was after some practical advice so thanks for that. I just think it disgraceful that the EA's can demand all this information from me when the fine has nothing whatsoever to do with me. FYI my son is not on the electoral role just me.

 

Dodgeball I can assure you this is a genuine case

 

Cheers all

[Peterbard]

Hello again All,

Thanks for all the info and debate. As someone stated I was after some practical advice so thanks for that. I just think it disgraceful that the EA's can demand all this information from me when the fine has nothing whatsoever to do with me. FYI my son is not on the electoral role just me.

 

Dodgeball I can assure you this is a genuine case

 

Cheers all

 

He cant demand it, he wouldnt and I do not believe he has.

[Mike_R_S]

He cant demand it, he wouldnt and I do not believe he has.

 

I mean the enforcement agency has demanded this information this is what they are asking me to provide in the letter>>>>>

 

In order to stop any further action we need the following

Current utility bill showing the names of the current occupiers

Current occupiers names

Date you occupied the property

Purchasing solicitors details

Forwarding address and telephone number for the former occupier

[Peterbard]

I mean the enforcement agency has demanded this information this is what they are asking me to provide in the letter>>>>>

 

In order to stop any further action we need the following

Current utility bill showing the names of the current occupiers

Current occupiers names

Date you occupied the property

Purchasing solicitors details

Forwarding address and telephone number for the former occupier

 

Well if so, it should be pointed out tht none of this information is relavant. It would be useful to know who this bailiff is.

[mikeymack2002]

Re: Bailiff/PCN Fine - looking for son who does not live here.. help

Originally Posted by

Mike_R_S

Hi dodgeball not sure what you mean by a stat dec is not appropriate. Please advise.

 

 

 

 

Without causing any further issues or any more misunderstandings please read the following >>

 

 

Re: Bailiff/PCN Fine - looking for son who does not live here.. help

Originally Posted by

Dodgeball

Yes, a poster recommended a statutory declaration on here. This action is not appropriate in your circumstance (as reported) you need to just make the bailiff aware that the debtor does not live there.

A stat dec is generally for the debtor to make in support of an appeal, or challenge to the ticket.

 

 

 

 

 

It was I that mentioned the SD for this reason I will now provide a link that confirms this

CAN

be done for this information please see here >>

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/de...tems-bailiffs/

A partial quote from this link is below...

 

 

Proving who owns things

 

If there are items in your home that don't belong to you, you should:

 

• write a list of all the items that don't belong to you
  
  
• make it clear to the bailiffs who the things belong to if they aren't yours
  
  
• show them proof of ownership, for example, a bill or a credit card receipt or family letters
  
  
• warn the bailiffs that they will be liable for costs if any goods are wrongly taken.
  
  

The inventory could be drawn up as a

statutory declaration

.

A statutory declaration is a statement in writing, signed by you and witnessed by a magistrate, commissioner for oaths or a court officer. You should get advice from an adviser or solicitor before completing the statutory declaration. It must be set out in a specific way and must state that the person makes the declaration conscientiously, believing it to be true.

 

 

Note to admin:

An SD can be used for many purposes, it

IS

a declaration of

TRUTH

that whatever is contained within the SD is true. If this is found to be untrue then the penalties are serious. See here >>

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo5/1-2/6

 

 

A word of warning about making an SD it is thus:

 

'And I make this solemn declaration conscientiously believing it to be true, under the provisions of the Statutory Declarations Act 1835.

 

WARNING

. Under section 5 of the Perjury Act 1911, if you knowingly and wilfully make a statutory declaration that is false in a material particular, then you are guilty of an offence, and liable on conviction to a term of imprisonment for up to 2 years, or to a fine, or both.'

For your SD you can declare your son does not live in your home and all property is yours and or list any items that do belong to your son.

[Bailiff Advice]

I mean the enforcement agency has demanded this information this is what they are asking me to provide in the letter>>>>>

 

In order to stop any further action we need the following

Current utility bill showing the names of the current occupiers

Current occupiers names

Date you occupied the property

Purchasing solicitors details

Forwarding address and telephone number for the former occupier

 

The letters are actually quite common and there is a reason why they are sent.

 

Whether we like it or not, the fact remains that enforcement companies receive thousands of letters each month from parents, ex spouses, ex partners etc claiming that a debtor no longer lives at a property. The reasons range from broken relationships, family arguments etc etc. On many occasions, it is only when a personal visit is made that it is discovered that the debtor has not moved from the property. In fact, I had one identical enquiry only yesterday regarding a magistrate court fine.

 

As mentioned earlier, you do not have to provide any of the information if you do not wish. There is of course the problem with data protection.

 

If you wish to provide documentation (such as a copy of your council tax bill), then this may well assist. The choice is yours. If there are any more questions that you wish to raise then the moderators will very likely move this thread to the discussion area.

[Peterbard]

This really should be on s discussion thread IMO.

[Peterbard]

I will say this though you are getting your law mixed up , you can make a stat dec detailing what you had for breakfast if you like.

The penalties for not telling the truth relate to SD presented to court not to an enforcment agent who is enforcing a judgment he will take the SD off you but he is under no compunction to believe it, it will just have the same weight as somone saying that something is true.

[Peterbard]

Perhaps spmeone will start a thread on the subject of SDs they are widely misunderstood by many. BA ?

[Mike_R_S]

Re: Bailiff/PCN Fine - looking for son who does not live here.. help

Originally Posted by

Mike_R_S

Hi dodgeball not sure what you mean by a stat dec is not appropriate. Please advise.

 

 

 

 

Without causing any further issues or any more misunderstandings please read the following >>

 

 

Re: Bailiff/PCN Fine - looking for son who does not live here.. help

Originally Posted by

Dodgeball

Yes, a poster recommended a statutory declaration on here. This action is not appropriate in your circumstance (as reported) you need to just make the bailiff aware that the debtor does not live there.

A stat dec is generally for the debtor to make in support of an appeal, or challenge to the ticket.

 

 

 

 

 

It was I that mentioned the SD for this reason I will now provide a link that confirms this

CAN

be done for this information please see here >>

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/de...tems-bailiffs/

A partial quote from this link is below...

 

 

Proving who owns things

 

If there are items in your home that don't belong to you, you should:

 

• write a list of all the items that don't belong to you
  
  
• make it clear to the bailiffs who the things belong to if they aren't yours
  
  
• show them proof of ownership, for example, a bill or a credit card receipt or family letters
  
  
• warn the bailiffs that they will be liable for costs if any goods are wrongly taken.
  
  

The inventory could be drawn up as a

statutory declaration

.

A statutory declaration is a statement in writing, signed by you and witnessed by a magistrate, commissioner for oaths or a court officer. You should get advice from an adviser or solicitor before completing the statutory declaration. It must be set out in a specific way and must state that the person makes the declaration conscientiously, believing it to be true.

 

 

Note to admin:

An SD can be used for many purposes, it

IS

a declaration of

TRUTH

that whatever is contained within the SD is true. If this is found to be untrue then the penalties are serious. See here >>

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo5/1-2/6

 

 

A word of warning about making an SD it is thus:

 

'And I make this solemn declaration conscientiously believing it to be true, under the provisions of the Statutory Declarations Act 1835.

 

WARNING

. Under section 5 of the Perjury Act 1911, if you knowingly and wilfully make a statutory declaration that is false in a material particular, then you are guilty of an offence, and liable on conviction to a term of imprisonment for up to 2 years, or to a fine, or both.'

For your SD you can declare your son does not live in your home and all property is yours and or list any items that do belong to your son.

 

 

Hello thanks you for your post. Everything at my property belongs to me I live alone and I have done since my son moved out two years ago. I was really just after advise on weather I should respond to the letter or ignore it. I feel it is wrong that the EA can pressure me into providing personal information when the fine has nothing to to with me.

[Mike_R_S]

The letters are actually quite common and there is a reason why they are sent.

 

Whether we like it or not, the fact remains that enforcement companies receive thousands of letters each month from parents, ex spouses, ex partners etc claiming that a debtor no longer lives at a property. The reasons range from broken relationships, family arguments etc etc. On many occasions, it is only when a personal visit is made that it is discovered that the debtor has not moved from the property. In fact, I had one identical enquiry only yesterday regarding a magistrate court fine.

 

As mentioned earlier, you do not have to provide any of the information if you do not wish. There is of course the problem with data protection.

 

If you wish to provide documentation (such as a copy of your council tax bill), then this may well assist. The choice is yours. If there are any more questions that you wish to raise then the moderators will very likely move this thread to the discussion area.

 

Hi BA

Thanks for that I think I will just send them my CT bill and a letter confirming what I have already told them. Hopefully that will be an end to it. Still think it disgusting they can hassle innocent people who have nothing to do with the original fine but hey ho

[mikeymack2002]

Mike_R_S

 

 

It is easy for us to give advice but at the end of the day it is your choice to accept it or not. If you provide the information or some of it then the EA will/may go looking for your son.

 

 

The debt is not yours. You do not have to pay it. Unfortunately the EA wants the money and will try anyway they can. All you need to provide is a letter for your CT that shows that there is only one bill payer, as far as anything else goes it can always be argued that your son lives there under the radar anyway.

 

 

Or provide the EA with your sons address? Either way I really hope this mess gets sorted out for you and that you don't get forced to pay or have any of your property taken away for selling...

 

 

Finally the debt is not yours and you should show proof of your ID to the EA if need be and refuse to deal with them... I really feel for you in this instance..

 

 

MM

[Mike_R_S]

Hi dodgeball I actually thought this was a discussion thread but then a again I only came across this site due to a Google search. Thanks for your comments. I think I know what I need to do now.

[mikeymack2002]

Your post in actually in the main Bailiff forum, You can ask admin to move it for you if you would prefer it in the 'discussion' area if this is what you want?

[Peterbard]

Hello thanks you for your post. Everything at my property belongs to me I live alone and I have done since my son moved out two years ago. I was really just after advise on weather I should respond to the letter or ignore it. I feel it is wrong that the EA can pressure me into providing personal information when the fine has nothing to to with me.

 

OK Well the answer is no you do not have to provide anything. Personally would write or email the EA say9hg something like.

 

Thank you for your note received on xxxxx

 

Please explain why any of the items mentioned are relavant to the issue of my sons whereabouts. as there would be no indication of it on the information requested.

 

I repeat again that I have had no contact with my son and he has not been at this address for at lest two years. In light of this and unless you have information to the contrary i suggest you continue your investigations elsewhere.

 

Please contact me if you still consider it necessary to inconvenience me further and include your reasons for doing so.