DVLA - Licence Surrendered then Revoked

[dave3009]

Hi All,

 

Thanks for looking at this, I'm after a little advice after the DVLA revoked my licence following me surrendering it.

 

The story:

I had a seizure in December 2014, the first and only seizure I've had in my 40 years. I dutifully surrendered my licence under doctors orders and was told to just apply in six months and that would be that.

 

I applied for it back and got a 'no, we're revoking it instead, wait longer' type letter, so the rules say six to twelve months so no problem maybe they're just being safe.

 

I applied again after the 12 months, only to be told that it would be subject to intense medical scrutiny because I had an alcohol problem! That was news to me, sure there will be times where I exceed the guidelines set out by government but they are extremely low in reality and they aren't seeking me out to write a documentary.

 

I did happen to have the seizure following a night out so the discharge letter does say alcohol may have been a factor.

 

So my concern is now I'm going to be branded as a raging alcoholic and that is likely to lead to many other problems down the line. I would like to try and get the DVLA to reverse their assessment of me, has anyone got any advice on how I might do this and if it is even possible?

 

Thanks

 

Dave

[Guest]

seems the standard 'reapply' form asks if the seizure was re alcohol. and re any seizure they then need to consult the med records.

if your med records show no alcohol misuse/problems...

[dave3009]

Hi Ford

 

Thanks for the reply, they're welcome to pour over my records. The problem is that they revoked my licence without checking my records, so now if I'm answering questions along the lines of "Have you ever had your licence revoked or refused?" I'm going to have to answer Yes, then explain. Not so sure an explanation of "DVLA got it wrong" will wash with most institutions so I'm going to have to put down the DVLA reasoning, and that would suggest I'm an alcoholic and that isn't the case at all. Ideally I'd be looking to see if anyone knows if it's possible to have them retract their stance and how I might go about it.

 

Thank you

 

Dave

Edited May 16, 2016 by dave3009

[Guest]

from what you say, you initially did a voluntary surrender re seizure.

then you reapplied, which wld've asked the reason for the seizure and consent to check med records, so they shld've checked them?

[dave3009]

Step 1 - Surrender

Step 2 - Reapplied - got my licence revoked without investigation

Step 3 - Reapplied - may be granted subject to medical investigation.

 

So at point of first reapplication they should have investigated but didn't, they just revoked it and told me to wait. That seems like an error, how can someone make a judgement on a medical condition without investigating? Madness.

 

Do you reckon asking for their complaints procedure would work, or am I going to have to get me some professional help? (for the having their stance retracted, not my implied alcohol problem )

[BazzaS]

Hi All,

 

Thanks for looking at this, I'm after a little advice after the DVLA revoked my licence following me surrendering it.

 

The story:

I had a seizure in December 2014, the first and only seizure I've had in my 40 years. I dutifully surrendered my licence under doctors orders and was told to just apply in six months and that would be that.

 

I applied for it back and got a 'no, we're revoking it instead, wait longer' type letter, so the rules say six to twelve months so no problem maybe they're just being safe.

 

I applied again after the 12 months, only to be told that it would be subject to intense medical scrutiny because I had an alcohol problem! That was news to me, sure there will be times where I exceed the guidelines set out by government but they are extremely low in reality and they aren't seeking me out to write a documentary.

 

I did happen to have the seizure following a night out so the discharge letter does say alcohol may have been a factor.

 

So my concern is now I'm going to be branded as a raging alcoholic and that is likely to lead to many other problems down the line. I would like to try and get the DVLA to reverse their assessment of me, has anyone got any advice on how I might do this and if it is even possible?

 

Thanks

 

Dave

Step 1 - Surrender

Step 2 - Reapplied - got my licence revoked without investigation

Step 3 - Reapplied - may be granted subject to medical investigation.

 

So at point of first reapplication they should have investigated but didn't, they just revoked it and told me to wait. That seems like an error, how can someone make a judgement on a medical condition without investigating? Madness.

 

Do you reckon asking for their complaints procedure would work, or am I going to have to get me some professional help? (for the having their stance retracted, not my implied alcohol problem )

 

I think you have gone about this wrong, as you either shouldn't have applied too early, or should have appealed the refusal / revocation if it wasn't too early ....

 

For epilepsy:

Driving will be prohibited for 6 months from the date of the seizure.

 

Clinical factors that indicate that there may be an increased risk of seizures require the DVLA not to consider licensing until after 12 months from the date of the first seizure.

 

So, if there were clinical features of increased risk seizures, you shouldn't have applied until 12 months, as an appeal (to Magistrates) would have been doomed. If there weren't, you should have appealed at that stage, as you must appeal within 6 months of refusal....

 

If they have been informed that alcohol may be contributing, and (re: alcohol) "there will be times where I exceed the guidelines set out by government", then it isn't unreasonable for them to consider you may have an alcohol issue if your blood test picture supports this. (If you've had blood tests at your doctor's they would be disclosable to DVLA, as you would have had to complete a consent form to release your records to DVLA, or they wouldn't process your application).

 

If you have had bloods was your Gamma-GT raised?

ALT (or other liver enzymes) raised?

Were you anaemic / had large red bloods cells (macrocytosis) or both (macrocyctic anaemia)?

These would be blood tests 'warning flags' for an alcohol problem.

 

DVLA are now also using Carbohydrate-deficient transferrin blood tests (these wouldn't be a usual test for your GP/hospital to perform, but DVLA can require it, usually in the context of a habitual drink driver proving they no longer have an alcohol problem).

 

So, they key will be to find out why DVLA think you have an alcohol issue, and what you can do to resolve / disprove that ....

[dave3009]

Thank you, that's a very detailed response.

 

I applied at the six month point because I didn't see any reason I shouldn't. When I got the 'no' reply I did look at the rules and see that 12 months may apply. So faced with appealing or waiting another couple of months, I decided to wait. Figured they'd take about the same length of time or, as you said, it might just be a doomed effort and a waste of time. I had no idea it was artistic license to brand me how they saw fit.

 

Yes, I signed a consent form and would have welcomed my records being made available, but they never accessed them. Nobody has requested blood tests or any other test to qualify them revoking my licence. Even now no one will have a baseline to compare to should it be required.

 

Let me clarify my point about times where I have more than recommended. Not a daily occurrence, not even over the course of a week. Just if I ever get the chance to go socialising I might drink more than two pints, ;-)

 

 

Do you think going about this I would be best doing it myself directly (probably not), via citizens advice or through a lawyer?

 

Thanks

[Guest]

yes, good post.

when you did the reapply form, presume you ticked yes to the q re whether the seizure was due to alcohol. did you give further/send details eg the discharge letter?

seems maybe then atm, they are basing it on that (if they havent checked any med records). and now (after the 12 mths) will soon check your records. as you said, 'subject to medical exam'n'. you said the last application has yet to be decided?

[dave3009]

The application is still to be decided, I know for a fact they have sought my records on this occasion as I was summonsed to the doctors surgery to assist them filling it out. My GP was somewhat perplexed about it all, he also had to fill out a drug misuse form!!

 

I had already decided to wait for the next verdict before making any steps forward on this, primarily because I don't want to put the current process on hold whilst they investigate, and then become a bit shirty because I've questioned things and fall again at the behest of an overzealous administrator.

 

I guess at some point I've ticked a box and that's set alarm bells ringing. I'm sure it'll all come out in the wash when and if I pursue it further.

 

Many thanks for taking the time to reply to this, all replies have been very useful and very much appreciated.

 

Regards

 

Dave

[isoprox]

Same thing happend to me a few years ago, my doctor did some blood test then wrote to me explains I should cut down on my alcohol intake, when my appointment came through for my medical I just thought it was a standard medical, however I had been on a stag do just before the medical date, so when I did the medical I failed, and had to wait another six months, thankfully I was ok the next time but I ended being of the road for 18 months which had a major impact on my job as I needed to drive, unfortunately when you sign the paperwork From the DVLA you are giving them permission to see all your medical records and that's why you have to take a medical which will show if you have high enzines in your blood.

[dave3009]

That sounds like a right pickle!

 

I would have welcomed them accessing my medical records or even inviting me to a dedicated exam, but alas no, I got a person looking to clear their workload by finding quick errors to shift applications into the bin, my erroneous tick in a box or not.

 

I've since gone completely teetotal, probably overkill but given I wasn't a regular heavy drinker it's no great loss.

 

I will report back any progress as time goes on, maybe it'll serve as useful to the next person who comes a cropper with mixing up the application process.

[peterm41]

Once you apply to the dvla they can take 3 or 4 months to decided. They will either revoke or refuse again, give you a temporary 1 to 3 years licence, send you for a full medical or give you an unrestricted licence.

 

 

I doubt they will do the last on my list. You will ultimately go for a full medical which you may or may not have to pay for and it will be carried out by a franchised doctor.

 

 

You will be asked your drinking pattern for the last 3 years and a separate questionnaire pertaining to your likelihood as to alcoholism or dependence.

 

 

You will be fully examined including your physical, mental, co ordination, eyesight. Bloods will be taken and tested for CDT levels, anything below a 2.2 is OK. Once all that is back with the dvla and no red flags are raised with them they then issue your licence.

[dave3009]

OK, thank you, that's also very useful.

 

I see the medical examination fee is for those people who have been disqualified for drink-driving (maybe I didn't read the bit that says just anyone sent for a medical), I had an SP30 back in 1993 which is my only driving blip

 

I'm sure a wee meeting with a franchised doctor will also be fine, I would welcome it in fact. Of course the doctor will be being paid by the DVLA so heavily in favour of their point of view so I guess being totally honest will be the key.

[Guest]

yes, another informative post there.

from what you have posted then;

1- vol surrender, re seizure

2- after 6 mths you did an application, and may have ticked yes re seizure re alcohol. dvla refused anyway, without a med investigation, as entitled to do so as 12 mths not yet up (as bazza posted).

3- you reapplied after the 12 mths. maybe again ticked yes seizure re alcohol (either way, they were on notice re it). they now replied need med investigation and have so far consulted your doctor. a further med prob required as mentioned above.

is that correct, briefly?

[letsmakeamark]

You have probably done the right thing. From experience i would never voluntarily surrender. Only surrender if dvla ask you to. I have found that sometimes doing things voluntarily mucks things up.

[dave3009]

There would appear to be a problem no matter if you voluntarily surrender or not. If you do then you are open to any suggestion they make. If you don't and something occurs then you're a bad human being. I went for honesty.

 

As this has moved on they have got a medical report from my GP. The GP didn't quite understand where they got their allegation from and confirmed that there was no issue regards alcohol or fitness to drive in the report. This would be expected.

 

But they are sticking doggedly to the hard line, they have disregarded the medical report from my GP and offered the alternative of appealing through the court. Not entirely sure what that involves but I guess if they won't accept a medical report and won't offer any other alternative then I have no choice.

[BazzaS]

You have probably done the right thing. From experience i would never voluntarily surrender. Only surrender if dvla ask you to. I have found that sometimes doing things voluntarily mucks things up.

 

Do DVLA "ask you to surrender your licence"?

I doubt it : either you voluntarily surrender your licence or if DVLA think you shouldn't be driving they revoke it.

 

The former allows you to restart driving when you want but DVLA can revoke your licence then if they have grounds.

Either way: if DVLA feel they can revoke your licence they can do so, and the appeal mechanism is:

a) to Magistrates

b) within 6 months of revocation.

[dave3009]

Do DVLA "ask you to surrender your licence"?

I doubt it : either you voluntarily surrender your licence or if DVLA think you shouldn't be driving they revoke it.

 

The former allows you to restart driving when you want but DVLA can revoke your licence then if they have grounds.

Either way: if DVLA feel they can revoke your licence they can do so, and the appeal mechanism is:

a) to Magistrates

b) within 6 months of revocation.

 

Or via Sheriff Court within 21 days if you're in Scotland.

[Guest]

are you in scotland then?

[dave3009]

are you in scotland then?

 

Just adding a bit of detail, in case anyone from Scotland comes across the post and thinks they can sit back for 6 months before appealing.

[Guest]