Upcoming Trial date/help with Schedule of loss..

[dawnporter]

You are correct that : the Administrative Division of the High Court is likely to reject an application for judicial review at the initial application stage if your correct option should have been to appeal instead.

 

Additionally, even if a judicial review found in your favour it doesn't mean the same as a successful appeal : it doesn't mean you get a new finding in your favour, only that the decision is quashed and needs to be reconsidered. You could get a judicial review, the decision quashed, the issue reconsidered & then still get a decision against you.

 

A judicial review is likely to cost at least £20k.

 

On what basis are you claiming the judge was biased?.you'd need to provide evidence to support that assertion, and "They gave a decision against me" isn't the same as showing bias - otherwise there would be bias in every case as there is a finding against at least one party for every case.

 

"the Deputy Judge is perverting the order set out by the District Judge" : if you are going to make accusations of bias and "perverting" - you'll be asked to provide evidence of this!

 

Yea thanks i agree...i think i will go of the appeal route and if they keep blocking my my requests go all the way to the Court of appeals which will bring the attention of the Higher Courts to the matter...something both defendants..and even the County Court do not want...

[BazzaS]

Yea thanks i agree...i think i will go of the appeal route and if they keep blocking my my requests go all the way to the Court of appeals which will bring the attention of the Higher Courts to the matter...something both defendants..and even the County Court do not want...

 

Why stop at the Court of Appeal?

There is always the Supreme Court......

 

However, be prepared to show where the lower courts have erred in law......

[dawnporter]

Make an application to set aside the decision of the DDJ then if you think it was wrong.

 

You'll need to also apply for relief from sanctions as you are beyond the 7 days.

 

Another question Ganymede...i am going to fill out a N244 application and send it in to the Court with the fee..i will request to get a set aside..The part about relief of sanctions...do i have to give a reason for my application being late out side of 7 days..or do i just state that i am requesting a relief of sanctions?

 

And if they say NO based on my request to set aside being outside of the 7day timeline...can i then appeal to a Higher Court?

[dawnporter]

Why stop at the Court of Appeal?

There is always the Supreme Court......

 

However, be prepared to show where the lower courts have erred in law......

 

Exactly, i am prepared to go ALL the way(i just got a part time job just so i can PAY for all the court fees on my own..this is how serious i am in regards to this matter)..I KNOW the minute i get the attention of the any Court higher than the County in regards to this matter..the defendant will settle...I am in fact confidence of this...

 

Indeed, i am prepared to show were they erred in law....the case is simple to argue in open Court...There is no reason for the stay to remain on my case ...as the case against the 2nd defendant has been STUCK OUT...

[BazzaS]

[/b]

 

Another question Ganymede...i am going to fill out a N244 application and send it in to the Court with the fee..i will request to get a set aside..The part about relief of sanctions...do i have to give a reason for my application being late out side of 7 days..or do i just state that i am requesting a relief of sanctions?

 

And if they say NO based on my request to set aside being outside of the 7day timeline...can i then appeal to a Higher Court?

 

Why are you asking Gannymede if you believe they get confused between an appeal and a judicial review?

(Incidentally, I don't agree : it appears to me you are the one who doesn't understand, not GM).

 

You can apply for a Judicall review of you feel a decision made by he Government agency is Unfair, or bias....you don't need to quote points of law as one would do in an appeal....i think you getting an appeal and Judical review requirement confused....

[dawnporter]

Why are you asking Gannymede if you believe they get confused between an appeal and a judicial review?

(Incidentally, I don't agree : it appears to me you are the one who doesn't understand, not GM).

 

because i decided to go the appeal route rather than the Judicial review route now..the last response Gannymede gave to me was inline with what i was thinking today as i was doing some more research in regards to the APPEAL portion of the Judicial review requirement...At the beginning of the thread i did state that i was in the process of getting advice from CAB of the High Court...

 

I am going to go the appeal route now as it is REQUIREMENT anyways before one seeks a Judicial review....

 

the grounds of me getting the JR is simple..as i have stated multiple times..the case against the second defendant is STRUCK OUT so there is no logical reason for a judge to deny my application to get the stay lifted-stating the reasons is:i have yet to apply to a High Court to get permission to add the 2nd defendant....The case against the 1st and 2nd defendant are NOT dependent on each other...this is evidenced by the District Judge denying the application made by the 1st defendant to strike out my case...as they wanted to argue that since the 2nd defendant was not on the case then i had no case..

 

The DJ clearly disagreed....denied there application and gave CLEAR instructions as to when the stay can be lifted -so my case can be transferred....

 

The stay was to be lifted when i received correspondence from the High Court as to wether the 2nd defendant will be added..I did receive a letter and I SENT IT IN as per the judges instructions but this deputy Judge STILL denied my application to get he stay lifted so my case can be transferred...

 

..and THIS is the problem...

 

Not the merits or details about the case...

[Ganymede]

[/b]

 

Another question Ganymede...i am going to fill out a N244 application and send it in to the Court with the fee..i will request to get a set aside..The part about relief of sanctions...do i have to give a reason for my application being late out side of 7 days..or do i just state that i am requesting a relief of sanctions?

 

And if they say NO based on my request to set aside being outside of the 7day timeline...can i then appeal to a Higher Court?

 

Research the "Mitchell 3" and "Denton".

[ThedaBara]

Thanks..the case is extremely complicated and it involves agencies the County Court itself works with such as: the Police, Local Council, NHS..and a decision made by one their judges....If I write down details of the case it will take 3 pages then a whole discussions re merits of the case will start... and i don't feel like getting into that ...

 

I also do not want to reveal too much bout the details of the case- as i know that persons such as law enforcement, and people who work for government agencies browse these forum- and i my case is so unique that i can be easily identified,...

 

Besides the details of the case is really irrelevant at this point... as i am more focused on getting around this deputy Judge so i can get my case transferred to the High Court.

 

Again, a District Judge(who is in a higher position that the deputy Judge) already made an order that my case was to be transferred to the High Court, after correspondence regarding another defendant was received from the High Court..I met these conditions and sent in the letter ...Yet this deputy Judge is saying something completely different from what was set out by the District Judge... and he is refusing to lift the stay on my case so it can be transferred.

 

It is pretty much a stalling tactic as they do not want my case transferred the High Court.

 

 

I should have just started the WHOLE case at the High Court level- as i did not know corruption runs so rampantly in the lower Courts.

 

 

In any case, i will give CAB for the High Court a shot....I will put in a Judicial review application (there is a 3 month time limit)..if i am denied with no merit...I can always go to the Court of Appeals.. ...

 

Getting the attention of the Higher Courts to look into this matter is my end goal anyways- so they may have just provided me with an opportunity to do just that..

 

Corruption in the Lower Courts? Surely not?!!!

[steampowered]

Judicial review is used to challenge the process by which government bodies have reached a decision. It is not a method of appealing court orders made in litigation. It sounds like your thoughts about judicial review are barking up the wrong tree.

 

If you do not like a decision made by the DJ, your remedy is to appeal it. There is a clear process available for doing that which you can research online.

 

There is no corruption in the courts. Simply because you do not like the decision made by a judge does not mean he is 'biased' or 'corrupt'.

[dawnporter]

Judicial review is used to challenge the process by which government bodies have reached a decision. It is not a method of appealing court orders made in litigation. It sounds like your thoughts about judicial review are barking up the wrong tree.

 

If you do not like a decision made by the DJ, your remedy is to appeal it. There is a clear process available for doing that which you can research online.

 

There is no corruption in the courts. Simply because you do not like the decision made by a judge does not mean he is 'biased' or 'corrupt'.

 

Yea thanks..but are not the one walking in my shoes, nor have experinced what I have experinced in the last year and a half..it is not about me 'not liking the decision' it is about challeleng the way in which the decision itself has been made ..in anycase I did state multiple times that I have appointment with CAB of the high court ...and as I said in the last 2 threads that I will try the appeal route..

 

One thing I won't do is drop the case...

[dawnporter]

Research the "Mitchell 3" and "Denton".

 

Excellent ...thanks for this..

[ThedaBara]

Judicial review is used to challenge the process by which government bodies have reached a decision. It is not a method of appealing court orders made in litigation. It sounds like your thoughts about judicial review are barking up the wrong tree.

 

If you do not like a decision made by the DJ, your remedy is to appeal it. There is a clear process available for doing that which you can research online.

 

There is no corruption in the courts. Simply because you do not like the decision made by a judge does not mean he is 'biased' or 'corrupt'.

 

Well, let me tell you about a Judge I had… before the decision, before the trial, even, he made such a snide remark to me at a site meeting the day before there hearing that I just knew, there and then that I had lost the case.

 

The next day, (as most on here already know), that judge refused to adjourn the hearing when the audio equipment failed and forced me to continue as a deaf LIP, denying me the right to a fair trial under art. 6 ECHR!!

 

There ARE biased judges… and yes, some are decidedly 'iffy'...

[dawnporter]

Hi Guys,

 

I have a trial date coming up in about 5months for a very complicated legal matter which pertains to violation of my Human Rights, and the offending party is an NHS trust.

 

A brief synopsis of the case is that i was unlawfully detained in hospital under the Mental health act for 7weeks in 2013. During this detention i was actually in the middle of Employment Tribunal which pertained to my current job at the time http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?428780-ET-appeal-against-NHS-Assistance-required.. I ended up losing the case- as i was unable to fully defend myself and find a suitable solicitor to help due to the fact that i was being held under section 3 of the Mental Health Act.

 

Now i wanted to ask the experts on the board, if i can state in the schedule that my detainment affected my ET case as I was under detainment in hospital and could not fully concentrate on the ET matter. My detainment also adversely affected the quality of the legal advice i received for my ET case..

 

I also wanted advice on drafting a schedule of loss of past and future losses...

 

Can i include the yearly wage of that job i lost as my future loss?

 

The current case i have going on is quite complex, and i do have persons who are well versed in Mental health act 1983 helping me..These persons are not solicitors however thus do not know anything about civil court procedures...

 

 

Thus far, we have proven the Mental health warrant used to access me was basically forged by the social worker who came to my door, we know my nearest relative was never contacted and no other copies of the warrant that was used to access me can be found in my records other than the one i managed to keep on my person for 7weeks...

 

The defendant tried several times to get the case dismissed but the Judge was not convinced and the case is moving to trial..Judge has now ordered me to produce a schedule of loss of past and future losses...

 

..I have been working on this issue going on 2years and i feel as if i am in control and in fact i am confident i will succeed...

 

I say the above as i know many people are not really familiar with the MHA 1983, and some are reluctant to tack issues pertaining to this act...

 

Btw..and not that it matters...I am actually a trained Nurse, and i never had any contact with any mental health services in any country up until Sept 2013 when i was sectioned under the MHA 1983...

[martin2006]

Before anyone could even begin to try and assess what your schedule of past and future losses would be, there needs to be some questions answered.

 

What was the ET about?

When you lost the ET tribunal, did you also lose your job or had you already lost your job?

How has the sectioning affected your future prospects of gaining employment in the same field prior to the sectioning?

What level of salary were you on at the time of sectioning/ ET ?

 

I think ultimately you WILL need a solicitor to represent you on this so regardless of any advice and help you receive here, that should really be the direction you should be going

[dx100uk]

this thread refers?

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?428780-ET-appeal-against-NHS-Assistance-required

[dawnporter]

Before anyone could even begin to try and assess what your schedule of past and future losses would be, there needs to be some questions answered.

 

What was the ET about?

 

The ET pertained to unlawful dismissal from my job at the time...I was working at an NHS hospital but was suspended, then dismissed from the job due to allegations i used an equipment that i was not authorized to use...My defense was that the charge nurse responsible for the ward told me i could use the equipment, she even placed me with another person who she stated would train me to use said equipment...

 

I was under suspension for about 5months...had no union rep..no investigation was conducted...then approximately a week before i was sectioned under the MHA i received a letter from the job saying i was dismissed...i had 14 days to put in an adequate appeal against the dismissal... yet i as under section...I did the best i could-lucky i had access to the internet for a short while when i was being held-so i was able submit an appeal...

When you lost the ET tribunal, did you also lose your job or had you already lost your job?

 

I had already lost the job before the ET tribunal..However due to the mental health section i was unable to adequately prepare for an appeal against the dismissal...i lost the appeal then i filed for for unlawful dismissal...

 

How has the sectioning affected your future prospects of gaining employment in the same field prior to the sectioning?

 

The section will show up on any CRB check that all health care professionals are require to submit to before employment..the section will also affect my overseas travels..(i am a US trained nurse and i sometimes work in other countries)...I would have to declare the section on immigration paperwork esp the ones that pertains to traveling to the US..

 

What level of salary were you on at the time of sectioning/ ET ?

 

i was making about 24 grand a year at the time...however my wages in the US and other countries are way higher....

 

I think ultimately you WILL need a solicitor to represent you on this so regardless of any advice and help you receive here, that should really be the direction you should be going

 

This is the ultimate goal...i did try for a almost a year to find a solicitor but was unsuccessful.

 

Thanks..

[dawnporter]

The ET case...this is after i lost...I didnt know what was going on as the solicitor i hired basically did nothing during the ET ...i was thinking about an appeal at the time so i came on here to get advice...

[martin2006]

I have merged your previous thread together with this one for ease.

 

So, the judge has asked you to calculate past and future losses of earnings as a result.

 

Based on 24k a year, or 2k a month, you need to apply this figure to the months since you lost the job, but you will have to then subtract what you have earned in that time, so if you are currently earning less you will generate a positive figure.

 

ie, earning 1k a month now, would leave you with a 1k shortfall per month, multiplied by however many months its been.

 

 

you say you were paid for 7 months after suspension i presume until you were dismissed so this wouldnt be included, you start from point of dismissal

 

 

Future earnings again, use the same principle and estimate the difference in earnings now to what you should have earned had you not been dismissed

 

Thats in its simplest form so wait for those better knowledged to add comment

[dawnporter]

I have merged your previous thread together with this one for ease.

 

So, the judge has asked you to calculate past and future losses of earnings as a result.

 

Based on 24k a year, or 2k a month, you need to apply this figure to the months since you lost the job, but you will have to then subtract what you have earned in that time, so if you are currently earning less you will generate a positive figure.

 

ie, earning 1k a month now, would leave you with a 1k shortfall per month, multiplied by however many months its been.

 

you say you were paid for 7 months after suspension i presume until you were dismissed so this wouldnt be included, you start from point of dismissal

 

 

Future earnings again, use the same principle and estimate the difference in earnings now to what you should have earned had you not been dismissed

 

Thats in its simplest form so wait for those better knowledge to add comment

 

 

The exact order states:

The claimant by aug 4 2016 serve on the defendant an updated schedule of past and future losses such statement to specify the amount claimed for each item of financial loss and the period for which it is claim and to be accompanied by copies of all documents not already served which are relied upon in support of the claimants case...

 

Just so we are clear..

.the schedule of loss i am need to submit pertains to my civil claim against the hospital who detained me under the mental health act..not my old job which is what the ET thread pertains to...

[martin2006]

do you know what your losses to date are?

 

have you already submitted a losses schedule as the order is asking you to update it ?

 

and do you have proof of losses as the order asks?

[determindator]

The question of your MHA section during this difficult time makes it sensitive to give the help you need. Have you tried CAB.

[dx100uk]

so as from post 13 then?

[dawnporter]

I never submitted a schedule of loss, i filed the claim on my own in June of 2014.....since the section and losing my job i have been homeless twice i did not work at all for about 8months after the section as i suffered from severe back pain due the injuries i suffered while in hospital after being thrown down and forcibly given medication...my finances have suffered since i lost the job and i have not recovered....

 

I have proof of being homeless..having to go on ESA and transcript of the ET which mentioned that i was held in hospital...

[martin2006]

Piece of all of that information together and use the figures suggested for the months affected, as long as you can show with proof that you lost earnings as a result, ie had to claim benefits then that will form your schedule and proofs.

Future losses are much harder to predict but the same principle applies to calculation, you just wont have the proof yet in advance of the loss

[dawnporter]

Ok just so we are clear...i don't need help with my Mental health section case...i am taking the hospital who sectioned me under the MHA act to court for unlawful detention and violations of other articles of the human rights act...i don't want to go into details pertaining to the merits of the case as it will just be a long drawn out convo...What i need is help DRAFTING a schedule of loss for past and future loss for my current human rights lawsuit.

 

 

The ET case was for a JOB i was dismissed from ...I was SECTIONED under the MHA a week after i received the letter that i had been dismissed from the job...I was held for 7weeks in hospital and could not fully defend or find adequate legal advice to help me in the ET case....

 

So i am asking if it is appropriate to add in the schedule of loss for the HUMAN RIGHTS claim, that i lost my ET for that job due to being detained unlawfully by the defendant under the MHA 1983

 

i hope that is clear..i have already been to CAB and the high court CAB...i have been dealing with this matter for almost 3years now...i have pretty much exhausted all options...CAB do not help at all when i comes to matter such as this....

 

i also got a referral to the Bar pro bono and they refused to take the case....