Upcoming Trial date/help with Schedule of loss..

[mikeymack2002]

Fletch

 

 

Working link here http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2011/2617.html

[mikeymack2002]

Since I stopped viewing this thread for a while it took but a few seconds to find a competent Solicitor to help your friend. If you believe you have an injustice that needs redress you can use a search engine and search the following ...

 

Mental Health Solicitors. or ECHR Solicitor

 

I know 2 of the groups featured in the search and are very good, I suggest respectfully that if you do the same you can find what you are looking for and then you may be able to get the advice you require... bearing in mind you have clearly stated she was detained for 7 weeks against her will, but the detaining hospital thought differently!

 

Having read the link in post #35 the case is very complex. There were specific errors noted and addressed in this particular case, this is why it ended up in the High Court. You may have intimate knowledge of your friends case but as your posts progress you are adding further information, This makes your request for help in detail very difficult to put to you.

 

As previously stated by my myself and others you need SPECIALIST LEGAL ADVICE, this can ONLY COME FROM a fully trained team. Snippets are not going to do you or your friend any good whatsoever, you will need to sit down and speak to the FULLY TRAINED people that can help you in this matter.

 

I once again respectfully suggest your friend requests her entire medical file so she (or a competent Solicitor in these fields) can make sense of what has happened.

 

You have stated you know best what is best for your friend but waste time by not getting the professional help you/they need in the first place, it is imperative you do so as soon as possible as time will be your enemy.

 

I sincerely apologise in advance if you do not like this reply but for your friends sake and yours get this help soon please. You need to ask your self these simple questions

 

 

1. Do you want to help your friend? (YES)

2. Is this the right place to get that help? (NO)

3. Do you need to have a MH capable Solicitor? (YES)

4. Then use the time you have left to get this as soon as possible

5. If you want an ECHR Solicitor use the same search engine there are plenty

 

 

The above may seem very harsh but you came here for advice the truth is blunt and to the point for that again I am sorry.

[dawnporter]

Hi guys,

 

Just to let you know before i begin, I do have an appointment with the Citizens advice for the Royal Court of Justice regarding this matter...But i just wanted to present the issue here as i have little faith in the CAB...Plus my experience on this forum has always been that you guys give great advice ....or at-least point folks seeking information in the right direction.

 

Now the issue is that i want to apply for a Judicial review against a decision made by a Deputy District Judge at a County Court. This decisions relates to to the application i made to get a stay lifted off my case so the proceedings can be transferred to the High Court. The Stay was placed on my case by a District Judge pending an application i made regarding adding another defendant to the High Court.

 

The conditions of the stay was that after i receive correspondence from the High Court (regarding adding the other defendant), myself or the other defendants on the case could apply to get the stay lifted. I met the conditions set out by the District judge, but when applied to get he stay lifted- a deputy district judge denied the application... pulling out reasons out of the thin air that was not set out by the District Judge..

 

 

The Deputy Judge denied the application to get the state lifted without a hearing....

 

So rather than keep messing around with this particular county Court, i want to apply for a Judicial review...My case has been stuck at the beginning stage even though it has been in their system for a year and a half...I am a litigant in person...and i feel as if the County court itself is using this reason to treat me very unfairly......If i go into the details of the case the reason i feel this way will be come obvious...

 

So my question is:

 

Is getting a Judicial review to look into the decisions of the This deputy Judge my best option?....I have already sent them a 14day pre action protocol letter, and the time has expired....There was no option to appeal set out in the letter that was to me denying my application....

[determindator]

I expect the helpers on here will want to know at least the main facts of the case subject to get some perspective on the matter. Give the CAB more credence, I believe they will be helpful.

 

LIP is a lonely place to be and IMO a CAB or Solicitor's letter to the Court will be needed.

[Ganymede]

Why Judicial Review? On what grounds??

 

This is not the appropriate course of action in your case I'm afraid.

[dawnporter]

I expect the helpers on here will want to know at least the main facts of the case subject to get some perspective on the matter. Give the CAB more credence, I believe they will be helpful.

 

LIP is a lonely place to be and IMO a CAB or Solicitor's letter to the Court will be needed.

 

 

Thanks..the case is extremely complicated and it involves agencies the County Court itself works with such as: the Police, Local Council, NHS..and a decision made by one their judges....If I write down details of the case it will take 3 pages then a whole discussions re merits of the case will start... and i don't feel like getting into that ...

 

I also do not want to reveal too much bout the details of the case- as i know that persons such as law enforcement, and people who work for government agencies browse these forum- and i my case is so unique that i can be easily identified,...

 

Besides the details of the case is really irrelevant at this point... as i am more focused on getting around this deputy Judge so i can get my case transferred to the High Court.

 

Again, a District Judge(who is in a higher position that the deputy Judge) already made an order that my case was to be transferred to the High Court, after correspondence regarding another defendant was received from the High Court..I met these conditions and sent in the letter ...Yet this deputy Judge is saying something completely different from what was set out by the District Judge... and he is refusing to lift the stay on my case so it can be transferred.

 

It is pretty much a stalling tactic as they do not want my case transferred the High Court.

 

 

I should have just started the WHOLE case at the High Court level- as i did not know corruption runs so rampantly in the lower Courts.

 

 

In any case, i will give CAB for the High Court a shot....I will put in a Judicial review application (there is a 3 month time limit)..if i am denied with no merit...I can always go to the Court of Appeals.. ...

 

Getting the attention of the Higher Courts to look into this matter is my end goal anyways- so they may have just provided me with an opportunity to do just that..

[dawnporter]

Why Judicial Review? On what grounds??

 

This is not the appropriate course of action in your case I'm afraid.

 

Because i cannot appeal this particular decision, and a Judicial review is used to look into decisions made by Government agencies- (including the Lower Courts) to see if said decision was lawful and fair.

[Ganymede]

But what are your legal grounds for Judicial Review?

 

You have provided very little information and so it is extremely difficult to help you.

 

Why could you not appeal? Have you previously applied for permission to appeal and failed?

 

Can you at least type out the wording of the orders from the District Judge and the Deputy District Judge verbatim?

[dawnporter]

But what are your legal grounds for Judicial Review?

 

You have provided very little information and so it is extremely difficult to help you.

 

Why could you not appeal? Have you previously applied for permission to appeal and failed?

 

Can you at least type out the wording of the orders from the District Judge and the Deputy District Judge verbatim?

 

 

The District Judge said, It is ordered that:

 

The claim against the 2nd defendant is stuck out

 

The Ist defendant's application for claim against them stuck out or summary Judgement is dismissed.

The claim against the 1st defendant and claimant's application for the case to to be transferred to the High Court are stayed pending the outcome of any application by Claimant for permission to claim against the 2nd defendant (which must be made to the High Court).

 

5) Either party may apply (on notice to the other part) for the stay to be lifted and for further directions(depending on outcome of any permission application referred above)

 

After i received correspondence from the High Court...The permission i was seeking to add the Second defendant to the case (they are the local council and you can't just sue them willy nilly you have to get permission) was denied due to the fact that i applied to the Administrative court rather that the Queenn's Bench division of the High Court... and also the application was out of time...

 

Time limits are very essential in cases such as this..

 

Anyways the deputy Judge said:

 

It is ordered that the application (to life the stay) is dismissed becasue the order dated Aug 10 Imposed a stay pending the outcome of any application by the Claimant for persmission to claim against the 2nd defendant. The Claimant's application dated 23 Aug exhibits and order from the Administrative court which indicates that the claimant applied to the wrong Court for judicial review, whereas the claimant should have applied to the Queen's Bench Divisions of the High Court for permission to being civil proceedings...

 

The claimant has therefore not get applied to the High Court for permission to claim against the 2nd defendant..so the claim remains stayted pending that application under paragraph 4 of the order dated Aug 10

 

Ok so the above is nonsense as 1) I CHOSE to add the second defendant 2) the claim against the 2nd defendant is STRUCK OUT...3)it was NOT mandated by the Court that the 2nd defendant MUST be added to the case before it is can be transferred. The District Judge (whom i felt was very fair) imposed the stay to keeps things from getting messy...he said he wanted information to come back from the High Court regarding wether i will be able to add the 2nd defendant- before transferring my case to keep the case UNIFORM...

 

I told you this is very complicated....

 

At the bottom of the letter from the Deputy Judge it says: ..This order was made without an hearing. Any party affected by it may apply within 7 days of service for it to be set aside , varied or stayed.

The order was made Sept 16,...and i did not get the letter until Oct 12...

[dawnporter]

But what are your legal grounds for Judicial Review?

 

 

Why could you not appeal? Have you previously applied for permission to appeal and failed?

 

 

This is what i need to ascertain from CAB of the Royal Courts or through my own research.....the letter just says all parties connected to the case had 7days to get it varied or stayed...Now even if i applied for the Judgment to be varied or stayed..I assume i will get an hearing and this particular Court always gives me Court dates which are 6months or more in future.... this has been happening from the beginning of this case...and i am now infact looking into taking a complaint about them to the Ombudsman...Even the District Judge who made the decision on Aug 10, noted the same regarding my Court dates...Again i know why this is being done ..they want time to drop the matter but that is not happening even if it takes half my life to fight this case i will keep going...

 

Anyways...i need to find out from CAB if the Varied or stay option i was given is the same as an appeal?...as the letter said nothing about an appeal... Because if i make an application for Judicial review and they found that i had an option to appeal it will be denied....

 

My grounds for Judicial review is the the Judge is bias and the decision is unfair...and the Deputy Judge is perverting the order set out by the District Judge.

[Ganymede]

You had 7 days to object to the Order from the DDJ from the date you received it, not from the date it was drawn by the Court.

 

Why did you go straight to apply for Judicial Review of the first Order from the DJ instead of making an application to the County Court for permission to add the 2nd Defendant as directed?

[Ganymede]

But what are your legal grounds for Judicial Review?

 

 

Why could you not appeal? Have you previously applied for permission to appeal and failed?

 

 

This is what i need to ascertain from CAB of the Royal Courts or through my own research.....the letter just says all parties connected to the case had 7days to get it varied or stayed...Now even if i applied for the Judgment to be varied or stayed..I assume i will get an hearing and this particular Court always gives me Court dates which are 6months or more in future.... this has been happening from the beginning of this case...and i am now infact looking into taking a complaint about them to the Ombudsman...Even the District Judge who made the decision on Aug 10, noted the same regarding my Court dates...Again i know why this is being done ..they want time to drop the matter but that is not happening even if it takes half my life to fight this case i will keep going...

 

Anyways...i need to find out from CAB if the Varied or stay option i was given is the same as an appeal?...as the letter said nothing about an appeal... Because if i make an application for Judicial review and they found that i had an option to appeal it will be denied....

 

My grounds for Judicial review is the the Judge is bias and the decision is unfair...and the Deputy Judge is perverting the order set out by the District Judge.

 

You had 7 days from the date you received the Order to vary it or have it set aside.

 

An Order doesn't have to mention a right to appeal in it, any in any event you would have been better to apply to vary or set aside to Order of the DDJ.

 

From the limited information you have given though, I would say that the DDJ probably made the correct decision and don't understand why or how he was biased.

 

Just because you like like a judges decision or think it's unfair doesn't mean you have grounds to apply for Judicial Review. There are set grounds you need to satisfy to qualify for Judicial Review, have you thoroughly researched them?

[dawnporter]

You had 7 days to object to the Order from the DDJ from the date you received it, not from the date it was drawn by the Court.

 

Why did you go straight to apply for Judicial Review of the first Order from the DJ instead of making an application to the County Court for permission to add the 2nd Defendant as directed?

 

Because i did make an application to the County court to ADD the second defendant...they added them...then i found out that permission was needed to add this particular defendant from the High Court..

 

thats why the Case against the 2nd defendant was stuck out by the District Judge as no permission had been received from the HC saying that i could add them...

[dawnporter]

The Decision made by the deputy Judge is not right or fair as case against the second defends has BEEN STRUCK OUT....so what different does it make if i get permission or not or if they are added?

 

I need to get my case transferred away from this crazy Court and the Deputy Judge's decision is just a STALLING tactic..

 

 

You can apply for a Judicall review of you feel a decision made by he Government agency is Unfair, or bias....you don't need to quote points of law as one would do in an appeal....i think you getting an appeal and Judical review requirement confused....

 

Any case i will see what CAB of the High Court has to say and just KEEP IT MOVING..

 

thanks...

[dawnporter]

You had 7 days to object to the Order from the DDJ from the date you received it, not from the date it was drawn by the Court.

 

Why did you go straight to apply for Judicial Review of the first Order from the DJ instead of making an application to the County Court for permission to add the 2nd Defendant as directed?

 

 

I did not apply for a Judicial review of decision from the District judge...where did you read that at?...I said the District Judge placed a STAY on the case pending the application i made to the HIGHT COURT to ADD the second defendant...this is a requirement by the law when SUING your local Council...The Distict judge wanted us to wait for the results before proceeding with transfer of my case to the High Court...

[Ganymede]

I'm really not getting appeals and Judicial Review confused. There are criteria to be eligible, have you looked into it in detail?

 

 

It's hard to help as you're not giving much detail.

 

Can you explain what this paragraph relates to and what application you made..

 

 

" . The Claimant's application dated 23 Aug exhibits and order from the Administrative court which indicates that the claimant applied to the wrong Court for judicial review, whereas the claimant should have applied to the Queen's Bench Divisions of the High Court for permission to being civil proceedings..."

[Ganymede]

I did not apply for a Judicial review of decision from the District judge...where did you read that at?...I said the District Judge placed a STAY on the case pending the application i made to the HIGHT COURT to ADD the second defendant...this is a requirement by the law when SUING your local Council...The Distict judge wanted us to wait for the results before proceeding with transfer of my case to the High Court...

 

You do not need the High Courts permission to sue a local council. You can just send a Letter of Claim and then issue Court proceedings.

 

But we have no idea what your claim is about so it's hard to know why you were told this.

[dawnporter]

You do not need the High Courts permission to sue a local council. You can just send a Letter of Claim and then issue Court proceedings.

 

But we have no idea what your claim is about so it's hard to know why you were told this.

 

In this TYPE of case...YOU DO...

 

THE DISTRICT JUDGE STUCK OUT THE CASE AGAINST (THE COUNCIL) THE 2ND DEFENDANT DUE TO MY NOT HAVING PERMISSION FIRST FROM THE HIGH COURT...

 

[dawnporter]

I don't need to give any details about the case i have read set out there reason WHY...my questions is NOT about my case...it about but the process i can go about getting around the decsion of this deputy JUDGE..

 

Details of case is irrelevant when i all i am trying to do is GET MY CASE TRANSFERRED...

[Ganymede]

Make an application to set aside the decision of the DDJ then if you think it was wrong.

 

You'll need to also apply for relief from sanctions as you are beyond the 7 days.

[dawnporter]

I'm really not getting appeals and Judicial Review confused. There are criteria to be eligible, have you looked into it in detail?

 

 

It's hard to help as you're not giving much detail.

 

Can you explain what this paragraph relates to and what application you made..

 

 

" . The Claimant's application dated 23 Aug exhibits and order from the Administrative court which indicates that the claimant applied to the wrong Court for judicial review, whereas the claimant should have applied to the Queen's Bench Divisions of the High Court for permission to being civil proceedings..."

 

He is referring to the application i made to the High Court- Administrative branch to look into the actions of the Council and for me to get permission to ADD them onto the case..the aforementioned IS LAW in my type of case...

 

they are the 2nd defendant...However they were already added to the case- but i was not aware that permission needed to be obtained from the high court before doing this..The Judge who added them to case was clearly not aware either...

 

So on the day of the hearing Aug 10th....the Distict Judge said even though i had an application PENDING to add the 2nd defendant ...he will still Strike out the case against the 2nd defendant..

[dawnporter]

Make an application to set aside the decision of the DDJ then if you think it was wrong.

 

You'll need to also apply for relief from sanctions as you are beyond the 7 days.

 

Yes... i was just thinking the same..... BUT if i do the above this and if it is denied....how does that affect the time limit for Judicial review?

 

that is... I apply for a set aside and i am giving a Court date that is 6 months down the line(they always do this in my case)...then my application is refused...Can i still apply for a Judicial review to look at the decision ..or would the time limit to apply for a JR have expired by then?

 

I guess i really do not have a choice ...as i have to show that i have exhausted all my options in the lower courts to the High Court if i put in an application with them...I am going to apply for a set aside asap and PAY out of pocket so it can move faster and we will see what happens...

 

I have already sent them a pre action protocol letter so they know i plan on taking this far...hopefully that and the other complaints i have on file against them will prompt them to stop screwing around with my case....

 

I just want my case transferred from this crazy Court..I am not asking for much....

[Ganymede]

Is it Central London County Court by any chance?

[dawnporter]

Is it Central London County Court by any chance?

 

No, this County court is in Hertfordshire...

[BazzaS]

 

Because if i make an application for Judicial review and they found that i had an option to appeal it will be denied....

 

My grounds for Judicial review is the the Judge is bias and the decision is unfair...and the Deputy Judge is perverting the order set out by the District Judge.

 

You are correct that : the Administrative Division of the High Court is likely to reject an application for judicial review at the initial application stage if your correct option should have been to appeal instead.

 

Additionally, even if a judicial review found in your favour it doesn't mean the same as a successful appeal : it doesn't mean you get a new finding in your favour, only that the decision is quashed and needs to be reconsidered. You could get a judicial review, the decision quashed, the issue reconsidered & then still get a decision against you.

 

A judicial review is likely to cost at least £20k.

 

On what basis are you claiming the judge was biased?.you'd need to provide evidence to support that assertion, and "They gave a decision against me" isn't the same as showing bias - otherwise there would be bias in every case as there is a finding against at least one party for every case.

 

"the Deputy Judge is perverting the order set out by the District Judge" : if you are going to make accusations of bias and "perverting" - you'll be asked to provide evidence of this

 

That might be evidence of direct bias (such as statements indicating a decision had been reached before the case was considered) : the leading case for direct bias is Porter v Magill [2002] 1 ALL ER 465.

 

Or evidence of indirect bias (such as where Bingham LJ's connection to Amnesty International led to them not being suitable to rule on the Pinochet case).

What are your reasons to state bias, and is this direct or indirect?