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MotoNovo finance misseling HP agreement and false documentation


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I wonder if any one can help please.

 

My son wen to buy a car from Evans Halshaw garage just as he started his new job with not more than £100 in his pocket .

 

was advised that this is enough for the deposit to secure a finance deal.

Paid the deposit of £100 on a £12k car and was told to come back and collect it a few days later.

 

When he came back to pick up the car a sales manager went through some basic person information with him

and briefly advised that the monthly repayments would be circa £250 pm.

tried selling the insurance to which he declined etc

( the usual sales tactics to get you to buy all sorts of warranties and protection).

 

The manager then went away to make a phone call and came back to say he got all approved

and once all the documentation is signed he can collect the car today.

 

 

At this point he then passed the file to an admin person in the garage and asked my son to complete the paper work.

At no point any of the figures and charges were discussed with my son.

Admin just went through some basic information again and had my son to sign a load of papers.

After all was completed he was given the car and drove off with a complimentary 7 days insurance.

 

As it happened my son lost his driving licence to drink driving 4 months later ,

lost his job and couldnt make any repayments.

 

As I got involved he didnt have copies of the finance agreement.

So after missing couple of payments we finally received notices of arrears

and managed to speak to Motonovo ( this is when he realised he has taken finance with them).

 

They kept dragging their feet with providing copies of the documents requested and kept sending unsigned copies.

Then a few days later when the documents were finally received

it was clear that the signature on the finance agreement wasnt my sons

and also dated 2 days prior him even being in the garage.

 

Complimentary insurance turns out to be with his wrong age

( they have indicated his 68 which I presume was to reduce their premium

and i think this meant he was driving the vehicle uninsured?!).

 

We have raised 2 complaints originally

1) to Evans Halshaw for mis selling the finance and not following FCA rules ,

falsifying signatures, selling insurance products my son declined

( they still put them on the finance agreement) etc.

 

 

2) complaint was made to motonova

- paying out on antiimpersonated documents, not following fca rules ref provding documentation, not assessing affordability etc.

Needless to say Evans Halshaw never bothered to respond.

Motonovo finance played on the fact that they have done nothing wrong.

 

We have gone to the ombudsman and so far it has been rejected twice

and they support MOtonovo an we are looking to appeal further.

 

The problem we have now is that the police has been after the vehicle as it was reported stolen by the finance company.

They have been rude and threatening with obstruction to justice.

 

Ombudsman are not interested about anything else apart from playing the broken record of he signed the agreement

and obviously bought the vehicle and the only reason he doesnt pay now

because he lost his licence and his job which is not their problem.

 

My questions are:

 

* Can police reposes the vehicle? or even get involved

* can we report motonovo to the police for falsifying signatures?

 

Any one got experience or had similar situation?

 

any advice will be appreciated

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what if he offers to hand the car back an call it quits?

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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it might be too late for this as adjudicator at the ombudsman didnt uphold our complaint

even thought we supplied all the evidence.

 

 

main finance document is signed with a signature that is similar to my sons but its not the same

and when compared to the rest of the documentation. also dated 28th when he was in the garage on the 30th

and rest of the forms are signed on the 30th.

 

Its unlikely they call anything quits now as adjuicator is on their side and keep repeating same old story that signature is his.

 

 

Having reviewed ombudsman decision file it seems that motonovo is a regular on their complaint list

but they always on their side with their decisions.

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an adjudicator or you escalated it to the ombs himself

 

 

sorry but at the end of the day

he did have the car etc etc

.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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an adjudicator or you escalated it to the ombs himself

 

 

sorry but at the end of the day

he did have the car etc etc

.

 

yes he did but never should have had one. and wouldnt have if they id their job properly and followed fca rules.

 

I am have asked adjudicator to escalate and was hopeful until I read all the decisions in similar cases - they were all rejected and seems like its not all about consumer and finance company can do no wrong

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irresponsible lending route?

 

 

what was his credit file like?

lots of PDL's and defaults etc etc ?

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

irresponsible lending route?

 

what was his credit file like?

lots of PDL's and defaults etc etc ?

dx

 

tried irresponsible lending and quoted all CONS FCA rules applicable incl consumer credit act.

his credit file had defaults and previously he could only borrow from loan sharks.

not sure how this one got through.

 

they also sold him the car almost £5k over the CAP value.

So his outstanding finance is over £18k and car is worth c£8k.

 

do you know anything about police involvement?

can they repossess and charge with theft.

having spoken to the police they are so evasive

 

...first they are saying they are after the car as its stolen

but when you remind them that V5 is in the sons name

they say well its not crime yet but an obstruction to justice.

 

I am thinkng that I ll let them know about location of the car but wont let them reposess it from another private land?

 

So what are you wanting to happen here?

 

ideally i want motonovo to confirm that the document is forged by the garage and unwind the deal - settle by taking the car back and wiping off the loan.

 

Its infuriating that the can take advantage of people who know nothing about finance and how it works. they missell and then bully. scary also that all these FCA rules are pointless and ombudsman is not as independant as I would have thought.

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well its not a mis sale is it?

all that you are disputing is the document is not signed by him

and that p'haps they shouldn't have done the deal in the first place

 

the police wont 'come' and repo

they will stop the car if its seen on the road and get it impounded.

doubt any charges would ever be involved

 

i'd let moto have the car

then let then take him to court and get the whole thing before a judge IF they go that far.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

update:

 

Spoke to motonovo yesterday ref trying to pay off the arrears

and let son carry on with the payments as he has got the job now.

They advised they are not interested and want to take the car back and make him bankrupt.

 

Spoke to national debt help line and now tried to get appointment with CAB.

Debt line advised that police should have never been involved and they cant make someone bankrupt.

 

 

They are saying that if motonovo have not sent termination of the agreement notice

- its still live and payments can still be made.

 

 

When we have tried to make payments via collections department we were able

until all of a sudden be put on hold and advisor then came back and advised no longer can.

There is a guy at their office darren who is dealing with this case and he is trying to be awkward.

 

THis morning I called and recorded the conversation with him.

His title is fraud investigator so when i tried to reason with him and explained we want to pay off the debt

- he said we can only do so if paid off in full or they repo and work though his debt and serviceability.

no other options.

He refused to confirm that he advised ref bankruptcy.

 

when i pointed out that if he is a fraud investigator why is he not investigating signature on the document

and wrong date he got lost for words and said this fact is only presented to him right now and he was not aware of it.

( this is after 3 months going back and forward with the ombudsman on it).

 

 

what questions if they have a copy of the original - they said no- only a scanned copy.

So the garage never posted the original.

the garage never responded to the request on the data protection letter

when we have asked for all the of the documentation inc

CCTV images of son going to the garage on the 28th when apparently he signed this agreement.

 

He just kept on and on about theft.!!!

they are jokers.

 

I am now going to the ombudsman again and will question them on the fact that so many issues were raised

and they were not looking fairly at the complaint and will also try to find someone senior at the motonovo to reason with.

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Probably not what you want to hear but:

1. They don't have to produce a signed copy of the agreement, only a reconstituted copy. So all the dating etc. is irrelevant, your son wanted the car, signed the paperwork, took the car AND most importantly made payments without objection.

 

2. On the balance of probabilities, he accepted the finance as he started making payments and didn't lodge any complaint before losing his licence and consequently his job.

 

3. The fact he made the first payments will indicate that he could indeed afford the payments if he had kept his job, and you now want the lender to agree to let him carry on with the payments because he has another job.

 

4. I would guess hasn't got his licence back so suddenly after losing it to drink-drive, so who will be driving the car?

 

5. If a default notice and notice of termination was issued by Motonovo then they are within their rights to repossess the vehicle.

 

Motonovo are not at fault here,

your son lost his licence to drink driving and the repercussions of this is that he lost his job

and subsequently couldn't afford the monthly payments.

There wouldn't have been a complaint if he had not lost his job and continued making payments.

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police came and took vehicle away from private property ?!

 

I have had conversations with motonovo last week and it became even more clearer that this whole thing stinks. they keep changing their story and seems like they are now just looking to cover up their wrongful acts.

 

can police reposses on the basis its theft?

 

Probably not what you want to hear but:

1. They don't have to produce a signed copy of the agreement, only a reconstituted copy. So all the dating etc. is irrelevant, your son wanted the car, signed the paperwork, took the car AND most importantly made payments without objection.

 

2. On the balance of probabilities, he accepted the finance as he started making payments and didn't lodge any complaint before losing his licence and consequently his job.

 

3. The fact he made the first payments will indicate that he could indeed afford the payments if he had kept his job, and you now want the lender to agree to let him carry on with the payments because he has another job.

 

4. I would guess hasn't got his licence back so suddenly after losing it to drink-drive, so who will be driving the car?

 

5. If a default notice and notice of termination was issued by Motonovo then they are within their rights to repossess the vehicle.

 

Motonovo are not at fault here,

your son lost his licence to drink driving and the repercussions of this is that he lost his job

and subsequently couldn't afford the monthly payments.

There wouldn't have been a complaint if he had not lost his job and continued making payments.

 

thank you and I understand all of this. However...

 

Default notice was never issued. When spoke to motonovo they started coming back with some random dates of the alleged letter was sent( conversation recorded ) and it didnt correspond with the dates they have stated within their responce to complaint. Apparently they are sending a copy of the letter ( it wont take them long to type one out and date it oct 2015).

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so the police came and got the car?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

If the police are involved then the only way this can be is if the lender has involved NaVCIS due to them suspecting fraud, because otherwise they wouldn't be interested.

 

This could be because you are stating that the signature on the agreement is not your sons.

 

Regardless of this, there is not much point in chasing for copies of default notices etc because normal CCA rules do not apply........the police will be acting on the basis that a crime is alleged to have been committed.

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so the police came and got the car?

 

yes. even thought we kept them uptodate with the negotiations with motonovo and tried to speak to police officer involved everyday - he just came and took the car away when noone was around

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not at all. motonovo reported vehicle stolen back in april because apparently they could not find it ( it didnt occur to them that they can just request to know about location of the vehicle )

 

forgery of the signature - they only became aware of this last week apparently ( even though it is in the original complaint to them in nov 2015 and raised via ombudsman).

 

motonovo are arguing the signature is correct and belongs to the son.....but he has stolen the vehicle and not making any payments.

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yea sure

no harm in it

simply tell the truth.

 

 

and if the agreement is a forgery

the motonova cant enforce it

so

then i'd be asking for your moneyback

 

they've got the car...

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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