Jump to content

  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • and it will be also now written off under age related criteria anyway.
    • @dx100ukThanks for this! I'm still not clear if I'm facing more than 6 points on my license though. Can you explain any further please? When I accept the 2nd speeding ticket, will they just charge me £100 and 3 points, or will they be more severe consequences since that offense took place the following day of the 1st offense? Similarly, when I accept the 3rd offense, will they look at my record or just charge me with the £100 fine and 3 points? @Man in the middleI've been searching the forum and you seem very knowledgeable. Would you mind giving a look at my query please? Thanks in advance!!
    • Yes of course. That's why it says cc:: BIg Motoring World at the bottom. Don't imagine that this solves the issue. It doesn't. He not have to force the finance company and big motoring world to accept the rejection to give your money back. I suggest that you get the letter off tomorrow. And let us know what you hear but on Friday you should then send a threat to the finance company.   Have a look what I have said here about your options and read the whole thread as well.  
    • Been perusing the actual figures on the polls above wondering where the '16% claimed for deform comes from? I understand that there are 'weighted' end results based on secret calculations ...   Probably going to repeat this later, but remember that the ukip/brexit/reform/deform party has ALWAYS had poll speculation FAR better than their actual  performance at elections - by large margins. SO: The labor and Tory votes come largely from simply the people who say they will vote for them - sorted Lab 43% Tory 20%, with maybe another small 1-2% coming from the weightings of the 'not sures' Greens largely get what is declared from 'other' , although with another declared green bit from the 'pressed' question   So as the share of the voting displayed in 'other' granted to reform/deform is around 11%, where does the '16% too often being reported come from? Seems that reform has been granted as beneficiary of effectively ALL the don't knows and wont says, who when pressed didn't actually declare for someone else ... effectively adding 40%+ to their reported polling % - rather strange given their consistent under-performance compared to polling - or perhaps that is the cause of the higher rating eh?   Now I admit the possibility (probability?) of wingers being ashamed of declaring their support for the yuckey lemon end of the spectrum ... but surely  that should affect the 'Torys as well? Maybe the statisticians have simply weighted in that deform wingers are simply more likely to lie?   But - without 'weightings' and assumptions that faragits will get everything that isnt declared as a definite and unequivocal 'not that Piers Morgan' - reform is on around 11% it seems.   Add to that the history of polling a lot less than the hype - and the simple fact that faragit wingers seem to be spread across the country (presumably skulking in their moms spare room despite being 45+) and greens and lib dems seem to be community minded - I think two seats will be an epic result for farage. Hardly the opposition - far more raving wingnut party.   and importantly - Has farage got a home in clacton yet?
    • "as I have no tools available to merge documents, unless you can suggest any free ones that will perform offline merges without watermarking" (which you don't) ... but ok please upload the documents and we'll go from there
  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.


      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like

Unlawful deduction of wages/underpayment of wages - Employment Tribunal or Small Claims?

style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 2957 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then


Please click the "Report " link


at the bottom of one of the posts.


If you want to post a new story then


Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 



Recommended Posts

Good afternoon Everyone,


Hopefully someone could help/advise me with a problem I am having with my former employer. I recently resigned from a part-time job working for a well-known Housing Association as they weren't paying me in full for the hours I worked (among other dubious issues).


My job started 20th January 2016 and I worked exactly half of my monthly contracted hours between my start date and 31st January 2016 - over four days/shifts. I therefore expected to be paid precisely half my contracted salary (salaried, not paid hourly, unless claiming overtime, which was calculated using an hourly rate). Using the assumption that I would receive half my monthly salary, I was underpaid for January in February's pay. Then, in March, they deducted even more money and claimed that they had overpaid me for January, when I believe the opposite was the case.


After numerous emails and telephone calls, staff from payroll claimed that they had initially calculated my hours (15/week) over a 5 day period (3 hours/day), which is what was paid in February's wage. They then said that they had recalculated my hours over a seven day period (2.15 hours/day) hence the deduction in March's pay. However, I actually worked 2 x 7.5 hour shifts = 30 hours - contracted to work 60 hours/month – I have copies of the email from payroll outlining how they calculated January’s wage, copies of my signing-in sheets, copies of overtime sheets showing my working patterns and rotas before I left.


As is stands, I have been paid approximately £4.25/hour for the hours I worked in January. After two months of trying to get them to pay me correctly (and among other issues, such as lone working without backup with potentially violent clients) I resigned. Before resigning, I also raised a Formal Grievance and received no response.


I am going through the Early Conciliation process with ACAS, but I'm scared of the potential costs and/or risks (i.e. potentially paying their legal costs, they have a huge legal department!) involved taking it all the way to an Employment Tribunal. The Housing Association suggested that I accept two-thirds of what they owe, but I requested to be paid in full. The ACAS conciliator didn't seem too pleased that I didn't accept the offer, which worries me. Someone has also suggested that instead of taking them to a Tribunal that I could take them to Small Claims court instead.


I suppose my queries are these: 1) Does it sound like an ‘unlawful deduction of wages’? 2) Does it look like I have a good case for an Employment Tribunal? 3) Would it be better taking them to Small Claims to lower my risks/be more feasible than going through an Employment Tribunal?


Could someone be kind enough to impart their knowledge of such matters please, I would be greatly thankful. I hope I've provided enough information, if not please let me know (and apologies if I've gone on too much!).


Very best wishes,



Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to hear about that. To answer your questions:


1) Yes, this sounds like an unlawful deduction of wages to me.


2) Yes, it sounds to me like you would have a good case for court or an employment tribunal. Has the housing association provided any valid reason as to why they think a lower amount is due than the amount is asking for? If not, they should be asked to explain why they are refusing to pay this money in a 'letter before claim'. If the housing association wants you to accept less than you believe you are owed, they should provide a reason for why they think you are not owed this money, not just pluck a random settlement figure out of the air!


3) The risk is about the same. In both employment tribunals and small claims, the risk is very low, provided that you have a reasonable claim and that you conduct the litigation in a reasonable manner (for example by complying with deadlines set by the court, turning up to the hearing and so on). Legal costs are only awarded in a small minority of cases where one side has 'behaved unreasonably'. Unlike the situation in larger court claims, it is not normal for the losing side to need to pay legal costs.


The advantage of going down the small claims route is that the court fees are much lower than employment tribunal fees. For this reason I suggest that claims for unpaid wages below £10k are better brought through the courts - you only need to go through an employment tribunal if you are claiming for something like unfair dismissal or race/age/gender discrimination.




Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you so much for your quick response Steampowered!


The only written justification I've received from them for paying me approximately half of the money I was expecting was their (mis)calculation of the hours I worked. I worked 4 shifts (days) in January. First they claimed I was on a working pattern of 3 hours/day, then they claimed I worked 2.15 hours/day, when in fact I worked 7.5 hours/day - I have evidence of my shift pattern, including a time-sheet signed by my manager (I asked the manager to sign my timesheet for January before I left, but she didn't/wouldn't, but I have one for another month), rotas and signing-in sheets, which I've emailed to them as evidence several times to no avail.


Thank you for your suggestion to take this through Small Claims, the fees for an Employment Tribunal are really quite exclusionary for me at this time, and I probably wouldn't have taken it that far and have lost the money. I suppose all I can do now is wait until ACAS have finished their involvement and then make a Small Claims claim.


Many thanks again, I can stop worrying so much now :-)


All the best,



Edited by AmmyArcher
Link to post
Share on other sites

The stupidity of large organisations knows no limits and charitable organisations think they are beyond reproach so their replies dont surprise me.

I would use the county court small claims procedure and say that it is money owed under an agreement in the particulars of claim. If you use an ET you will have to fork out £500 up front but you will get this back when you win. You have the evidence of time worked so they ont have a leg to stand on but when you sue you should name the Trustees of the HA as the defendants rather than just naming the HA, that way the people at the top actually get to hear there is a problem in their paradise.

Your letter before action sent to the chairman of the trustees as their home address will undoubtedly do the trick, just say what you ahve siad here and exactly how much your claim is for and I bet you get asked to come in and discuss the matter. Up to you whether to accept this, i would be inclined to jsut say your position is clear and they either pay up or see you in court.

Link to post
Share on other sites



If you are on low income and/or receiving certain benefit you might be entitled to fees remission.


Check that out.


I prefer the Tribunal but please do what you feel comfortable with.


All the best

Link to post
Share on other sites

steer away from the minimum wage bit, they are basically just not paying you for work done so it is X hours work at £Y.YY per hour not paid for. no need to complicate the matter


Hello Ericsbrother,


I was repeatedly told by payroll (via HR) that I didn't have an hourly rate (despite being paid a specified hourly rate when I completed an overtime sheet). That's why I'm sticking to an expectation of half my monthly salary for working precisely half my monthly contracted hours (contracted 60 hours/month for a specified salary)...I hope this doesn't complicate anything.


Thanks for your advice, it really is appreciated.


Best wishes,




P.S. I hadn't even considered copying in the Chair, what a brilliant suggestion!

Edited by AmmyArcher
Link to post
Share on other sites

Small claims procedure is only £35 upfront anyway but still worth applying for remission of fees based on your income.

I suspect that the payroll bod only presses buttons and doesnt read what they are imputting. Of course you get paid an hourly rate, even bosses on £200k a year can break that down to an hourly rate when it comes to court or tribunal cases as there are a limited number of hours in a year.

Any salary will be pro-rata otherwise we wouldnt be discussing this as they would have paid you about 4 times as much and wouldnt have made any deductions at all as there coulnt be a reason to do so.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?

  • Create New...