Parking Control Management (UK) PCN**CANCELLED**

[Butterfly321]

Private Land Fiasco

 

Hello People,

 

Thanks in advance for your help and your patience. This is my first thread ever, so please bear with me.

 

On 14th January 2016 I was slapped with a parking charge notice by Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd

for my car being on The Runway, Salisbury Village, Hatfield.

 

 

I had gone to a small planning exhibition and I was in the community centre opposite for no more than 10 minutes.

There was a small amount of parking inside the gates of the community centre

but when I got there it was chaos, and so I noticed a space on the opposite side of the road

and thought it would be okay to park there. No

yellow lines and another car parked close by.

 

Unfortunately for me, when I came out of the centre I saw there was a notice affixed to my windscreen.

I also only then noticed that there was a parking about 10 metres away with all the gobbledygook about permits and contracts.

 

 

The reason I did not see the sign was that I am a carer for 2 people

and I was in such a hurry to get in and out of the planning exhibition that I forgot to check for parking signs.

 

 

The PCN stated that it was issued for "Parked without clearly displaying a valid PCM UK Ltd permit (at the time of enforcement)".

They did put a reference on the PCN showing photographic evidence.

I had no idea it was private property and I was surprised because The Runway is actually part of a public bus route.

 

I had read up quite a bit of stuff on MSE and Parking Cowboys and so I decided to wait for the NTK.

This arrived posted on 16th Feb with given date as 18th Feb.

It did mention the POFA 2012 and worded it that I am required to do one of the following

pay the outstanding amount £100

or if I was not the driver, provide the full name of the driver etc.

It did also mention the appeals service IAS (but I understand this is about as impartial as a tied agent).

 

I thought long and hard about what to do and say.

As far as I was concerned, it was just an honest mistake.

 

 

However, when I replied (as the keeper and not the driver) I declined to name the driver

and said "apparently the driver did not see any parking sign and given that the ticket was issued at 16.27 hours on 14th January,

I am not surprised, as it was 10 minutes after sunset on a murky winter afternoon.

Therefore, as the driver did not see the parking sign, there was no contract formed and no offence committed".

 

 

I continued that as keeper of the vehicle I am therefore declining to pay this charge and asked them to cancel the ticket.

Incidentally, nowhere has it given a parking period. It has only specified 16.27 - I don't know if this is relevant.

 

PCM replied on 17th March that they are

" confident that the signage is adequate and clearly states that contractual obligations you agree to by parking.

PCM maintain that the terms of this contract are concise and clearly displayed throughout the parking area.

 

It is not sufficient to assume that the parking restrictions didn't apply.

Further advice should hae been sought or alternative unrestricted parking should have been found."

 

I actually felt like writing back to them asking

"what part of the driver did not see the parking sign" do you not understand?

 

However, I decided not to engage in any more letter tennis.

I decided not to appeal to the IAS because they do not allow mitigating circumstances to be taken into consideration.

 

I have now had a letter from Debt Recovery Plus,

advising me that I should now pay the amount owed ££160) by 9th May,

so I decided to ignore that as well.

 

 

I note that DRP are quoting Parking Eye vs Beavis, but I don't really see there is any connection.

I have spoken to the person on Salisbury Estate who liaises with PCM and found out the landowner is Bovis.

 

I think the next move will be to ask the landowner if PCM have their authority to take people to court.

 

Well, that is my story so far.

Obviously I would prefer not to have to go to court,

but it may be that this is the only place where I can actually tell my side of things.

 

I would be very grateful for any constructive comments you have for me.

Thank you.

[silverfox1961]

Hi and welcome to CAG

 

PCM I assume is Parking Control management as they are members of the IPC.

 

As DR+ are now involved, all you can do is sit in your hands and do nothing. PCM take very few cases to court.

 

If you can go back to the site, take some nice pictures of the signs and have a quick count of how many there are.

 

It would also help if you can find out who the landowner is and whether they have applied for planning permission for the signs. The local council may be able to help on that score.

 

Then there is the ten minute rule that PPCs should be following. This is a grace period for you to park up, find a sign, read and understand it then leave.

 

As PCM don't tend to follow PoFA, it beggars belief that they then wish to use it on you.

 

Did you at any time identify yourself as the driver?

[armadillo71]

So the signage stated ' permit holders only' ?

 

Therefore any contractual terms only apply to permit holders. There is no offer to park for anyone else, so the driver was trespassing.

 

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/bargepole-spanks-ukpc-in-court-no.html

[silverfox1961]

So the signage stated ' permit holders only' ?

 

Therefore any contractual terms only apply to permit holders. There is no offer to park for anyone else, so the driver was trespassing.

 

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/bargepole-spanks-ukpc-in-court-no.html

 

I read that too. I'm still trying to recover. Some judges read different things of course but it seems to be that she is saying with these signs, the landowner should be the one taking court action, not a puny PPC

[ericsbrother]

Agree with above,

the landowner may sue you for the damage caused by the trespass but that will be zero.

 

 

In short, you have done your homework and realised that the private parking management is all smoke and mirrors

and they rely on ignorance to collect money, hence DR+ being nvolved

and asking for more money than would ever be due under contract law.

 

Parking Co's see the Beavis determination as a licence to print money

but it isnt as in most cases the parking companies still fail to show a cause for action

or have signage that cannot form a contractual obligation ( as above)

[Butterfly321]

Hi everyone,

 

Many thanks for your help so far.

 

I tried to post my thanks to you last week but I gather it did not work.

 

Having been advised to try to post again,

this is it.

 

I did also reply that the landowner is Bovis and I did not identify myself as the driver.

 

This morning I got another letter from DRP saying that if I didn't pay up £160 by 24th May

they would recommend their clients take me to court.

 

I intend to take the same action as before (none),

 

unless anyone advises anything else.

 

Cheers for now!

[ericsbrother]

DR+ are the parking world's pet cebt collection agency.

 

 

When they get paid £15 to send out scary letters

it generally means that the parking co is now only hopeful of getting you to pay up rather than an expectation.

 

 

Any dca can be ignored with impunity as they have no interest in any matters,

 

 

they are just rentathreats.

[silverfox1961]

DR+ are the parking world's pet cebt collection agency. When they get paid £15 to send out scary letters it generally means that the parking co is now only hopeful of getting you to pay up rather than an expectation. Any dca can be ignored with impunity as they have no interest in any matters, they are just rentathreats.

 

Totally agree. DR+ seem to ONLY act on parking cases and earn their crust chasing the less knowledgeable who think what they are being told is true. You are not one of them hence you will continue to sit on your hands.

The only time to be alert is if a Letter Before Action/Claim or court papers arrive.

[ericsbrother]

I once got a letter from DR+ on a supposed B2B debt that wasnt owed of course,

they wouldnt be given the work if the debt was real.

 

 

About 4 years ago.

Same format as the parking threatograms so perhaps they were surprised to get the work.

 

Lets face it,

the parking co have been told they are in the wrong

but unless you make a big hoo-hah they will try their luck.

 

 

I'm sure that if Bovis ask them what is going on they will claim administrative error rather than saying

"hands up to that one guv, we are trying fraud as a business model and it isnt working out very well"

[Butterfly321]

Thanks again guys for your comments. I will play the waiting game a bit longer to see if anything transpires. Cheers for now.

[Butterfly321]

Hi, just thought I would give a quick update.

 

 

I have had 4 letters now from DP+, the last offering to discount the £160 by £24.

 

 

Is the amount of letters harassment and is it time for a letter to Bovis?

 

Your thoughts please. Many thanks. Butterfly 321

[silverfox1961]

Blimey that is a lot. By now I would have expected the letters to say 'we will now recommend that legal action etc'.

 

As it is, the advice remains the same as post 8

[ericsbrother]

good idea and copy the letter to Will Hurley at Gladstones/IPC

 

and make it very plain the PCM know they have been told by the landowner to desist

and that you are considering action for harassment

 

and could they recommend a competent solicitor that knows about parking management.

[Butterfly321]

Dear ericsbrother, thank you for the reply of 21st June.

 

I am a bit confused because you suggest copying the letter to Will Hurley at Gladstones/IPC.

 

Does this person work for both organisations?

[dx100uk]

they are one and the same.

 

 

dx

[Butterfly321]

Hi there,

 

I am sorry to be a bit thick

 

who am I supposed to be asking if they could recommend a competent solicitor that knows about parking management (is that Parking Control Management)?

 

Can you please clarify for me because I want to get this right.

 

Thanks very much for your help.

[dx100uk]

??? who said anything about getting a sols?

 

I am a bit confused because you suggest copying the letter to Will Hurley at Gladstones/IPC.

 

Does this person work for both organisations?

 

gladstones/IPC are the same company[representing the parking CO ]

 

Will Hurley works for them.

 

so it him that needs a copy of whatever letter EB referred to in post 13

[Butterfly321]

In post 11,

I suggested writing to Bovis to ask them if they were aware that PCM are seemingly out of control

as I have now had 4 letters from DRP.

 

 

There seems to be conflicting advice about whether I do nothing or whether I write the letter to Bovis and copy it to Will Hurley.

 

 

If you re-read post 13 the last sentence says

"and could they recommend a competent solicitor that knows about parking management".

 

 

Hence my query in post 16.

[dx100uk]

I think that last comment is tongue in cheek

 

 

if EB says write then do

 

 

dx

[Butterfly321]

Hi people,

 

I have to report success.

 

 

After writing to Bovis,

they have contacted me to say that the parking company have agreed to cancel the parking charge notice.

 

It has taken six months but I am glad it is now over.

 

 

Just to be on the safe side, I will be keeping the papers for 6 years, just in case.

 

Thanks to all those who have helped me.

 

 

Have a great summer.

[dx100uk]

hey well done

 

 

dx

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Please help.

[silverfox1961]

That's what I like to see. Ignoring the monkeys and going for the organ grinders. I'm sure ericsbrother will also be pleased to read this

 

Well done.

[MrNumbskull]

And it's nice that you came back to report the outcome