Right to Buy problem.

[TheLion]

Hello. Apologies if this is in the wrong place so feel free to move it.

 

We gained the Right to Buy 16 years ago via a Deed of Assignment with my mother. She was informed that she would lose the Right to Buy and that we would gain it.

 

We have the Deed of Assignment, the tenancy 'General Terms and Conditions' that confrim the above and in 2004 we began the process of buying our house.

We received a from from the landlord confirming that we had the Right to Buy and they even evaulated the property. Although at the time we discovered that we could not get a mortgage so everything stopped.

 

In 2007 we moved house. Same Housing Association. Another Deed of Assignment, this time with my father-in-law. He had the Right to Buy and so did we. We were inform that we would still retain the Right to Buy when we moved.

 

Four weeks ago we began the process of purchasing our house again. The landlord is now stating that we do not have the Right to Buy as we were not tenants in 1998. They also quoted s171B of the Housing (Preservation of the Right to Buy) Regulation 1993.

 

So, we sent in a complaint with all of the documents that we have confirming that we have the Right to Buy and reffered to this from said regulations: ‘Extent of preserved right: qualifying persons and dwelling-houses:

171B.

(4) The following are qualifying successors for this purpose -

(aa) where the former secure tenancy was not a joint tenancy, a member of the former secure tenant’s family to whom the former secure tenant assigned his assured tenancy of a dwelling-house in relation to which, immediately before the assignment, he had the preserved right to buy. ’

Following a phone conversation this morning I have been informed that even though they have this new information they still belive that we have no Right to Buy. They are stating that it was all a mistake and that the Housing Regulations can be interpreted in different ways.

 

 

 

Any advice will help a lot?

 

 

 

Regards, The Lion.

[AndyOrch]

You wont get seen here...thread moved to the appropriate forum ( Residential and Commercial lettings/Freehold issues)

 

Regards

 

Andy

[ericsbrother]

they will try anything to put you off so dont use the phone and ask for a written reason as to why the law doesnt apply and dont accept that it can be read differently, that is not a lawful reason, they have to come down on one side of the fence or the other. If they still wont play nicely you will have to take it to the relevant ombudsman, probably the local govt ombudsman. However, you have to exhaust the process first so look at the legislation and use any appeals or application process to the letter.

[Old Cogger]

right to buy related to partners residence only in our case, not any other family, in another case Right to Buy not allowed as the then Housing association were not involved in right to buy for some legal reason?? Yet other associations were - another anomaly! ???

[TheLion]

Thank you ericsbrother.

 

That's the intention. Exhaust the complaints procedure with them first. I've contacted the local County Councillor and provided him with details of what's happened. I've also contacted the Housing Ombudsman and received a reference number. They stated that a County Councillor (they say 'County Ward') or and MP can push a case to them earlier.

 

It does seem odd that our Housing Association can state what they have with regard to the law. There are two parts of s171B that apply to us and both would mean that we have the Right to Buy. Also, how can they just decide that a legally binding contract, our tenancy agreement, has a mistake on it just because it does not benefit them. I can't believe for a minute that they can just erase something from it and ignore the Deed of Assignment just because they obviously don't want to sell us the house. Why can't we state that the weekly rent was a mistake, as in we didn't have to pay any and they should repay it all.

[stu007]

Hi

 

Your Tenancy Agreement is a Legal Document (if there are any errors in it that the HA has only raised now that's there problem) you have a legally binding document as long as you signed it.

 

As stated please put everything in writing only (you want to keep a good paper trail and ensure you take copies of everything for your records also get free proof of posting from the post office)

 

Do send a letter questioning there letter asking for full clarification and that you also require copies of the following:

 

1. Complaint Procedure

2. Customer Care Standards policy.

3. Copy of my Tenancy Agreement (you want this as you need to see what agreement they are using)

4. Right to Buy Policy (you want there policy not a leaflet are they following their own policy)

 

(Also the letter you got from them with the error in your Tenancy Agreement keep it very safe)

 

Tip

 

If you are using the Local Authorities Complaints Procedure to ask for copies of specific documents (unless there is a specific legal reason you can't have them) as its part of the complaints procedure they should not charge for copies as its part of this procedure.

 

If they do try to charge a fee for copies challenge them. WHY!!!

 

As you are using the Complaints Procedure to challenge them without having access to the documents they are using to challenge you and now being asked to pay a fee to obtain these document you require further clarification where it states this fee in the Complaints Procedure.

Edited May 7, 2016 by stu007

[TheLion]

Rceived a reply to the first complaint made.

 

They state:

 

Tenancies created after 1998 by Housing Associations are assured tenancies and that the Right to Buy does not apply to them.

 

The original tenant, my mother, was informed that the Right to Buy was personal to her and not transferable.

 

As we were not 'secure tenants' we cannot gain the Right to Buy. Which seems at odd with ss4(aa) below.

 

They have provided no copies of any evidence to support the above. And this seems to ignore the following, of which I have highlighted as it applies directly to us:

 

s171B Housing (Preservation of the Right to Buy) Regulations 1993 here:

 

 

‘Extent of preserved right: qualifying persons and dwelling-houses

 

 

171B.—(1) A person to whom this section applies has the preserved right to buy so long as he occupies the relevant dwelling-house as his only or principal home subject to the following provisions of this Part.

 

 

(2) References in this Part to a “qualifying person” and “qualifying dwelling-house”, in relation to the preserved right to buy, are to a person who has that right and to a dwelling-house in relation to which a person has that right.

 

 

(3) The following are the persons to whom this section applies—

 

 

(a)the former secure tenant, or in the case of a joint tenancy, each of them;

 

 

(b)a qualifying successor as defined in subsection (4); and

 

 

©a person to whom a tenancy of a dwelling-house is granted jointly with a person who has the preserved right to buy in relation to that dwelling-house.

 

 

(4) The following are qualifying successors for this purpose—

 

 

(a)where the former secure tenancy was not a joint tenancy and, immediately before his death, the former secure tenant was tenant under an assured tenancy of a dwelling-house in relation to which he had the preserved right to buy, a member of the former secure tenant’s family who acquired that assured tenancy under the will or intestacy of the former secure tenant;

 

 

(aa)where the former secure tenancy was not a joint tenancy, a member of the former secure tenant’s family to whom the former secure tenant assigned his assured tenancy of a dwelling-house in relation to which, immediately before the assignment, he had the preserved right to buy;

 

 

(b)a person who becomes the tenant of a dwelling-house in pursuance of—

 

 

(i)a property adjustment order under section 24 of the Matrimonial Causes Act 1973[1973 c. 18.] , or

 

 

(ii)an order under Schedule 1 to the Matrimonial Homes Act 1983[1983 c. 19.] transferring the tenancy,

 

 

in place of a person who had the preserved right to buy in relation to that dwelling-house.

 

 

(5) The relevant dwelling-house is in the first instance—

 

 

(a)in relation to a person within paragraph (a) of subsection (3), the dwelling-house which was the subject of the qualifying disposal;

 

 

(b)in relation to a person within paragraph (b) of that subsection, the dwelling-house of which he acquired the assured tenancy, became the assignee of the assured tenancy or became the tenant, as mentioned in subsection (4)(a),(aa) or (b);

 

 

©in relation to a person within paragraph © of subsection (3), the dwelling-house of which he became a joint tenant as mentioned in that paragraph.

 

 

(6) If a person having the preserved right to buy becomes the tenant of another dwelling-house in place of the relevant dwelling-house (whether the new dwelling-house is entirely different or partly or substantially the same as the previous dwelling-house) and the landlord is the same person as the landlord of the previous dwelling-house, or where that landlord was a company, is a connected company, the new dwelling-house becomes the relevant dwelling-house for the purposes of the preserved right to buy.

 

 

For the purpose “connected company” means a subsidiary or holding company within the meaning of section 736 of the Companies Act 1985.[1985 c. 6.]

 

They also cmpletely ignore the RTB2 confirming the Right to Buy that we have by sending a letter dated a month prior which wrongly stated that we do not have the Right to Buy. This was overruled and we later had the house evaluated.

 

Their letter lacks any hard evidence, they even state that it's 'their policy' to give an incomming tenant a copy of the outgoing tenant's tenancy agreement.

 

I have just drafted the next stage complaint and requested evidence to support all of their arguments, or lack of.

[stu007]

Hi

 

Also ensure you ask for the relevant Right to Buy Policies between 19XX & to date. (basically from the start year of your issue as these are updated to date)

 

(You need to know what the Right to Buy Policy in place at the very start was, remember these policies get update so you need those updates as well)

[TheLion]

Just received a letter from our idiot HA.

 

It states that they are dealing with our Stage One complaint!!!

 

We have already completed Stage One and the letter we handed in this week escalated it to Stage Two. I've just reread the reply to our Stage One complaint and the person who wrote it states that it is a reply to our 'query'!!! Our letter stated three times on it that it is a 'formal complaint' and they have just ignored that fact.

 

To top things off, the senior manager who dealt with our Stage One, or 'query' as their callling it, is dealing with this one also. Talk about bias.

 

Any ideas?

[ericsbrother]

Look up the chair of the trustees and send off a copy of the stage 2 complaint and point out that the formal complaints you have made so far have been not properly addressed by X and that as chair of the trust he/she has vicarious liability and you expect them to thus compensate you for any expenses incurred due to incompetence and failure to follow the correct procedures. Copy the complaint to your local councillor and MP and let them know that the HA arent obeying the law.

[TheLion]

Sounds good. I've already drafted another complaint about this issue which is going in on Monday and it has already been emailed to the County Councillor.

 

Our HA has a board. I'll send it to the head and see if it helps.

[stu007]

Hi Lion

 

Ensure to read my post#6 on your thread and ask for those documents.

 

You now need to follow the Housing Associations complaints procedure and exhaust it to its final stage.

 

If you are still unhappy with the final stage response you can then complain to Housing Ombudsman Service: http://www.housing-ombudsman.org.uk/

 

(Please bear in mind that you need to exhaust the Housing Association own complaints procedure to its final stage before approaching the Housing Ombudsman Service)

[TheLion]

Will do stu007. It's really frustrating when they can't even follow it themselves. Though all of their incompetence will only make us look better in the long run.

[TheLion]

Our HA has now agreed that our complaint will be looked at at Stage Two of their complaints procedure. Just means that due to the delay they have had longer than the alloted ten working days to reply. Delaying tactic?

[TheLion]

Just received a reply to our Stage Two complaint and it just repeats what they stated in their last reply. They have provided none of the evidence that we have requested or answered any of our questions. Though they did state that we will be getting a leter from their solicitor's...

 

The letter was just as I though it would be, a complete waste of paper. It just repeats what they are stating and once agin provides no evidence to back anything up. They even make reference to a number of changes to contractual rights within the tenant's agreements in 1998 but fail to provide any proof whatsoever.

 

It's a farce really. Have written the Stage Three complaint ad requested all of the information that you guys have stated, including answers to our unanswered questiona and the hard evidence that they seem unable to provide.

[stu007]

Hi

 

Thanks for the update.

 

Yup get that stage 3 one in and let us know how it goes.

[TheLion]

HA obviously don't like the Stage Three complaint. They have sent us a letter stating that we owe rent. The problem is that it's this weeks rent. It only went on to our account on Monday while the letter was generated and personally signed on Wednesday. Meaning that we had only 48 hrs to pay this weeks rent. It wasn't even a full weeks rent as we are slightly in credit.

 

This is the first time that this has happened since we started paying all of our own rent. We usually pay it over the weekend as we both work full-time and don't get paid until the end of the week.

 

Wonder what will be next. If it carries on or escalates this must be some form of unfair, unequal or harassment.

[stu007]

Hi

 

You need to check your tenancy agreement as to what date the rent has to be paid.

 

Question as surprised at you mentioning weekly as most HA the rent is paid monthly and has to be paid into the HA by that date, could you clarify please?

[TheLion]

The rent goes on every Monday and this has been the case for as long as we have been with our HA. With regatd to when the rent is due, it states that it is due every Monday. In the sixteen years that we have been with them, a lot of which we have paid rent, we have never received a letter like this. Just odd that it was sent one day after they received the Stage Three escalation...

[ericsbrother]

then start paying a fortnight in advance.

[TheLion]

What a fun week. After having heard nothing from our HA I contacted them and enquired as to why none of the information we requested had been sent to us. It had been nine working days so I decided to chase it up.

 

Their complaints officer was very unfriendly; no apology and she even suggested that I just download their complaints policy rather than her send it out. She then stated that they might breach the fifteen working days within which they have to reply. Absolute joke.

 

Well, we sent in another letter requesting the information and pointing out the poor customer care.

 

Today we received a letter that states that we will not have a hearing to put our case across as they have decided that we still do not have the Right to Buy.

 

They have admitted, once again, that they made mistakes on our tenancy agreement. They state with regard to the requested information that they don't deem it 'relevant' with regard to the complaint. We are only requesting clarification on what they have stated, proof of what they are directly referencing and bog standeard policies. They have sent us nothing that we have requested.

 

They did send out, yet again, a copy of a tenancy agreement from a past house where we have never stated we had the Right to Buy as we gained the Right to Buy when we moved. They know this yet they keep sending it out.

 

They have have sent out some material from the LSVT Transfer Agreement which is not dated and references the Right to Buy and Preserved Right to Buy. There is no explanation for it and it seems to oddly confirm that we have the Right to Buy...

 

The Right to Buy part is the same as that on our tenancy agreement while the PRTB states:

 

'shall mean the right to purchase a Dwelling conferred on former tenants of ******* ******** ******* by Sections 171A to 171H of the Housing Act 1985 (as amended) and the regulations made thereunder and (where appropriate) on their successors (inter alia) by Clause 5.9 of the Tanancy Agreement set out at Part II of the English Schedule of the Principal Agreement'

 

Highlighted S125 if the Housing Act 1985.

 

And Highlighted a part from this document, no date again, from page 8 that is titled 'Who Has the Right to Buy', Preserved Right to Buy': https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/your-right-to-buy-your-home-a-guide--2

 

This document was only first published in 2012 so what relevance does it have to a decision 16 years ago.

 

Seems like a very odd selection of material. I will try to provide more clarification for anyone who requests it.

 

Next stage, the Housing Ombudsman.

[Conniff]

Next stage, the Housing Ombudsmanicon.

 

And your MP, don't forget your MP.

[stu007]

Yup you got it next stage the Housing Ombudsman service but I must ask this question:

 

Does there response mention that you can go to the Housing Ombudsman Service in fact have any of there responses mentioned this?

 

What I also think you may need to do is send the HA a Subject Access Request (SAR) for a copy of your housing file under DPA.

Edited June 11, 2016 by stu007

[Old Cogger]

Tried Right to Buy some time ago= turned out some HAs were exempt from the system.

[TheLion]

Yes it states that we can go to the Housing Ombudsman and the SAR forty days expires on 14.06.16.