Finance U aka Corner Park Garage - claim form***Claim Dismissed***

[RCT40]

This is the defence that I filed after I got back from my holidays. I take on board that my assertions around the BOS are incorrect.

DEFENCE-STATEMENT-REDACTED.pdf

[debt4get]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?112358-Bill-Of-Sales-and-repossession-of-goods

you may find this interesting it is to do with the bill of sale, that finance u rely on to secure the debt

[dx100uk]

the above is from 2007..just be aware a lot of those old requirements were relaxed.

esp the independent witness.

 

 

dx

[RCT40]

I have mentioned much in my defence of the BOS, which as dx points out doesn't apply any longer. I think though on balance there are more important issue in there to be addressed.

[RCT40]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?112358-Bill-Of-Sales-and-repossession-of-goods

you may find this interesting it is to do with the bill of sale, that finance u rely on to secure the debt

 

Thank you for taking the time to dig this out!

[RCT40]

A question. If I may from the the files I've added along with the defence,

there is a difference in dates.

 

I exchanged vehicles,

signed the documents and made debit card payments at their Swansea on Saturday 31st March 2012,

yet all paperwork I eventually received is dated 6th April 2011.

 

As well as bank transactions

 

I also have a cover note dated 31st March 1012,

 

other than the BOS being technically registered too late what if any is the significance of this?

[dx100uk]

BOS being registered after 7 days is fatal surely

and so are altered dates on docs.

 

 

its all under CCA so a fixed sum loan IS a credit agreement

 

 

however

updated BOS stuff fom my notes:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?452164-Log-Book-Loan-Guidance&p=4791345#post4791345

from my notes. [prob same as above!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

logbook loan repossessions are not always legal,

.

if linked to a CCA agreement or if the BOS has not been registered with the high court.

.

If BOS registered then yes they can reposses,

but have to show registration and debt details.

Registration

A bill of sale can only be enforced if it was properly registered.

Since this is an expensive and difficult process,

it is rare that this actually happens.

However, failure to register the bill of sale renders it void,

and so renders any security on goods void.

.

Consequently, before allowing any creditor to gain possession of your goods,

ask to see a registered copy of the bill showing the supreme courts seal.

.

You can also call the national debt line, and ask them how to search the registry yourself.

.

Also a valid DN must be issued.

.

If linked to a CCA then can not reposses if on private property without a court order

( but can if on public road and under a third has only been paid ).

.

Over a third, they need a court order wherever it is.

.

check for...[bOS]

.

Not Registered With The High Court In 7 Days

not registered AT ALL!

.

Credit Agreement Details Not On The Bill Of Sale

You should also check that the name on the registration documents

matches the name of the person who signed the BOS

On occasions these cars get sold on several times

.

how to check:

.

email:[email protected] ov.uk.[no spaces]

.

ring:020 7947 7772

.

write:

QB Enforcement Section,

Room E15-E17,

Royal Courts of Justice,

Strand, London, WC2A

...

.

ideally you need the BOS number

.

however

they can search by the Reg Number

.

...............

also see:

http://www.fca.org.uk/firms/firm-types/consumer-credit/consumer-credit-research/logbook-loans

.....

Do you have a problem with a Logbook Loan?

With Citizens advice estimating that over 60,000 of these loans were taken out in 2014 alone

an increasing number a causing severe difficulty and distress for borrowers.

.

In this guide we explain what a logbook loan is, and how they work.

What you can do if you have a repayment problem,

and what you can do if you have unknowingly bought a car with a logbook loan attached.

.

Three golden rules for Logbbok Loans

.

1)No matter how desperate you are to purchase a car, or raise cash,

NEVER consider this type of Finance

These loans are designed purely for the benefit of the lenders.

With APRs of 400+%, little consumer protection, and aggressive debt collectionicon practices

they should be avoided at all costs.

.

2)When purchasing a used car from whatever source,private or trade,

ALWAYS do a FULL GENUINE HPI CHECK costing around £20,

these come with a guarantee against any form of existing finance, including lbl's

.

3)If you have any problem with a Logbook Loan,

your first step is ALWAYS to check that the Bill Of Sale has been registered

with the High Court. You can do this here-

.

to check if registered

.

Contact Details

.

QB Enforcement Section

Room E15-17

Royal Courts of Justice

Strand

London

WC2A 2LL

DX 44450 Strand

.

Telephone: 020 7947 7772

Fax: 0870 324 0024

Email: [email protected] ov.uk

.

You may read on the internet that your BOSicon will be void if witnessed by your lbl lender

.

Since the OFT( as was) lost the attestation case on appeal by 2 to1 this is NOT the case

.

full details here http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup...method=boolean

.

Logbook loans are a form of credit dating back to the Victorian era,

derived from the 1878/1882 Bills Of Sale Acts, with terms and conditions to match in many cases.

.

Problems are manyfold from extortionate charges by lenders for calling a customer,

to repossessions where owners have been left at the side of a busy road,

unable to get to work, and even sexual harassment via debt collection.

.

Poor practices abound, unsurprising when there is no incentive for lenders

to ensure their customers understand the terms or can afford the repayments.

In fact the very nature of this form of finance could be seen to encourage bad behaviour

– why carry out affordability checks if a single missed payments means you get to keep

the money and takeaway the car?

.

.

How does it work?

.

When you take out a logbook loan you will be asked to hand over your vehicle’s logbook

or vehicle registration document, which proves you are the registered keeper of the vehicle.

.

You’ll also have to sign a credit agreement and a form called a ‘bill of sale’.

This means the lender now owns your vehicle on a temporary basis

but you are still able to use it so long as you meet all loan repayments.

.

These documents are recognised by law in England, Wales and Northern Ireland

but are not used in Scotland.

.

The law only recognises a bill of sale if the lender registers it with the High Court.

If it’s not registered, the lender must get a court’s approval to repossess your vehicle.

.

You should check if the bill of sale is registered.

.

What you should do if you have a repayment problem

.

1) check your Bill Of Sale is registered as above

.

2) the lender must send you a default notice which complies with the requirements of s87(1)cca1974

.

allowing you fourteen clear days to remedy any default (which can be after one missed payment)

.

You should , if your lender will not negotiate a reduced payment, straight away on receipt of the dn

.

look to take out a time order. This gains you the protection of the court, which can look into the overall loan--

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/...t/Default.aspx

.

What you can do if you have purchased a car with an existing logbook loan

.

If you receive a letter threatening to repossess the car or an enforcement officer

turns up at your home to take it, you may not be able to stop them.

.

•ask to see proof of their identity and their authorisation to take the car

•ask to see the bill of sale document – they have to show you this if you ask for it

•if you feel threatened by how an enforcement officer is behaving, call the polic

•ask for written confirmation of what has been taken

•get the contact details for the logbook loan company.

.

If the lender has taken your car, you can try to get it back

and reclaim your money from the seller.

However, this can be a costly and time-consuming process and is not guaranteed to succeed.

.

If you want to get the car back, you could pay off the outstanding loan

and then take the person who sold you the car to court, to try to get your money back.

.

If you just want to get your money back, you can take the person who sold you the car to court.

Always get independent advice before you decide to take someone to court.

.

Some lenders are members of the consumer crediticon Trade Association (CCTA),

which has a code of practice covering logbook loans.

The code of practice says the lender must register the logbook loan on a register,

so it will show up when you carry out a history check on the car.

It also says they must obey certain rules when they repossess a car.

.

If you are unhappy with the way a logbook loan lender or its enforcement officers have behaved,

find out whether they are a member. If so, you can complain directly to the CCTA.

However this code is regularly ignored

.

http://www.ccta.co.uk/content/our-code.aspx

.

Finally both the Financial Conduct Authority and the Law Commission are investigating

Logbook Lending and the associated legislation,

full details here--

.

http://www.fca.org.uk/firms/firm-typ.../logbook-loans

.

http://lawcommission.justice.gov.uk/...ls-of-sale.htm

.

for anyones info, you must act immediately on receipt of a default notice

.

What you should do if you have a repayment problem

.

1) check your Bill Of Sale is registered as above

.

2) the lender must send you a default notice which complies with the requirements of s87(1)cca1974

allowing you fourteen clear days to remedy any default (which can be after one missed payment)

.

You should , if your lender will not negotiate a reduced payment, straight away on receipt of the default notice look to take out a time order. This gains you the protection of the court, which can look into the overall loan--

.

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/...t/Default.aspx

Bills of Sale Act does not apply in Scotland,

just to reassure you from the Money Advice Service *Taking out a logbook loan in Scotland*

In Scotland, ‘bills of sale’ cannot be used as security and are not legally binding.

Lenders in Scotland are therefore likely to be operating under different credit arrangements.

If the logbook loan is a ‘hire-purchase agreement’ or a ‘conditional sale’, your consumer rights and protection under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 will apply.

 

.

dx

[debt4get]

playing devils advocate here but the lack of DN would that apply?

 

the poster returned the vehicle before the next payment date and relinquished it to the dealer.

 

..the account was then not technically in arrears,

so no DN would have been needed to be sent, yes/no ?

 

the fact that a telephone conversation was held in which the owner stated that if you cant afford it i am reposessing today could be denied...would he do this in court?

knowing him...yes..

 

..and yet again whenever a finance u comes up we have guests watching the thread.

..paraniod? maybe? maybe not....

[dx100uk]

check a few things properly...

The credit ag and BOS cant be different amounts, are they?

has the BOS been registered within 7 days.?

 

 

if the agreements have dates changed on them in pen and hand written...they cant be relied upon or enforced..

 

 

dx

[RCT40]

Thanks both for your comments,

I've had a good dig around today,

and have a signed receipt headed corner park garages

by the same person that signed the CA, BOS,

as well as the receipt from the chip and pin payment made at their premises,

and a cover note both dated on 31st March, which is when we signed the paperwork and drove the car away.

 

 

Would the be sufficient to prove that the dates have been tampered with?

 

 

As I see it proving this is vitally important, as the BOS was register on 12th April meaning it was executed incorrectly, as dx points out it has to be registered within 7 days.

 

As for your comment debt4get,

I think he is heading down the I gave it back route,

which as I've said isn't what happened

- but from a SAR I have a document (unsigned) made out in my name as the seller of the vehicle the day I was made to hand it back.

 

 

When it was taken back, I was refused a receipt and asked to sign nothing.

Looking at the agreement I posted it doesn't seem to be an option to even if I had wanted to give it back.

 

DX I'll go through the CA and BOS again with a tooth comb again, just incase I've missed something.

 

Thanks again both

 

RCT40

[RCT40]

The BOS and CA are dated and signed in the hand writing of Kim Gee-Wing who is the person I dealt with on 31st March at the Swansea branch. As I have the deposit receipts (hand written receipt from garage, and also debit card machine slip) which shows I paid the deposit on 31st March, am I safe in saying that the BOS was not registered in time, and also that the dates have been changed?

 

In nearly in thirty years of buying cars I cannot think of a single instance where I paid all the agreed deposits, insured the car - then walked away and returned a week later for it...

 

I’ve also been talking to the national debt line as you suggested, and they say because the BOS I have holds a high court stamp and serial number it would be a waste of £50. They also told me I should gain advice on the fact that I drove the car away without being provide with any copies of the agreements - any thoughts?

[theoldrouge]

witness issue was lost by the oft on appeal

 

provided bos was stamped by high court , judge will accept as valid

 

will look through your whole thread

 

are the finance co ccta members?

[theoldrouge]

can we seethe poc please, your defence reads more as a witness statement

[RCT40]

Is this what you need to see?

 

1. By a credit agreement regulated by the consumer crediticon act 1974 and dated 06/04/2012 the claimant lent the defendants the sum of £10.337.25 to be repaid with interest and charges

by

one instalment of £295.00 on 06/05/2012

and 48 monthly instalments of £398.16 thereafter.

 

 

2.By a letter dated 26/04/2016, the amount outstanding was £7,911.68.

No payments have been received from the defendants since the letters before action were issued.

However a rebate of interest amounting to £2,911.68 has been applied.

 

 

3.Accordingly, the defendants are indebted to the claimant for the sum of £5,000.00.

Copies of the sales invoice from C.P.G(Wales) PLC T/a Corner Park (Item 1),

The credit agreement (Item 2)

and the letters before action (Item 3) have been sent to the defendants.

 

 

The claimant claim the said sum of £5,000.00.

[theoldrouge]

all you needed to do for now was deal with each paragraph (see cpr 16.5)

 

have you sent a s77 request and the cpr 31.14?

 

will read all through your thread in the next couple of days

 

and ccta members??

[RCT40]

all you needed to do for now was deal with each paragraph (see cpr 16.5)

 

have you sent a s77 request and the cpr 31.14?

 

will read all through your thread in the next couple of days

 

and ccta members??

 

I have not sent an s77 request, or cpr 31.14 - can you point me in the right direction for templates etc?

 

I've looked at their site, and note paper no mention of ccta members, is it possible to check online?

 

I do have some things realised from SAR requests.

 

Thank you for you help!

[theoldrouge]

have you sent a SAR and got the narrative? your best route is via the dn imo

 

dx will provide the links, not at home at moment unable to provide

[RCT40]

have you sent a SAR and got the narrative? your best route is via the dn imo

 

Yes SAR sent, and information received.

 

 

This is when we realised agreement dates didn't match the day we signed for car, as mentioned in the thread.

 

 

I also got a document dated same day the car went back showing that I sold the vehicle to them.

 

 

To be clear this document is unsigned, and I have not seen it before.

[theoldrouge]

please post up minus personal info

 

letter templates in library

[RCT40]

please post up minus personal info

 

letter templates in library

 

Attached!

 

Thanks again

SellDoc.pdf

[RCT40]

I don't seem to be able to view any templates, it says I need to register - is there something I need to do?

[dx100uk]

CCA request to the claimant

CPR 31:14 to the sols

 

 

click the links

 

 

read all the posts of each thread

don't sign anything

 

 

leave the £1PO blank and uncrossed

[RCT40]

CCA request to the claimant

CPR 31:14 to the sols

 

 

click the links

 

 

read all the posts of each thread

don't sign anything

 

 

leave the £1PO blank and uncrossed

 

 

Thank you DX, all ready for posting. There is no solicitor so only the CCA request.

[dx100uk]

no cpr the claimant too then

 

 

dx

[RCT40]

no cpr the claimant too then

 

 

dx

 

Will do.