ParkingEye being economic with the truth..POPLA Appeal

[johnnyinamoto]

Hi all,

 

I'm Johnny. I'm new here

 

I was just about to send off an parking fine appeal, but just wanted to see if I'm in the right or not, because it's a bit sketchy.

 

The facts:

-I wanted to go into Ibis car park because I was told it was cheap

-Entered Holiday Inn car park accidentally because of confusing road layout

-Left Holiday Inn

-Entered Ibis, spent around 5-10 mins parking because it was tight and realised that it was actually very expensive

-Went back to Holiday Inn, saw that prices were cheaper so I parked

-The sign gave a few options of how to pay. One being a mobile app.

-Spent about 20 mins trying to download the app because of bad signal

-Left the premises in search of better signal

-Came back. Paid using the app. And left.

-There was no option to backdate the payment to the time I arrived

-After doing my business, I came back and I left 8 mins after my parking had expired.

 

I got a Parking Charge Notice from ParkingEye two weeks later. In the letter they state I

-Arrived at 6:44

-Left at 8:26

-And was in the car park for 1 hours 41 minutes.

 

This isn't true.

-I arrived at 6:44am,

-Left around a 2 minutes later

-Came back about 6:55am-ish

 

So the car was literally in the car park between 1-2 minutes, then about 1 hour 20 mins. Not the combined amount that the ticket states.

 

So 3 questions..

-Is the false time period a possible technicality?

-Is the 20 mins spent downloding the app, and not being able to backdate the payment a mitigating circumstance? Also does me leaving the premises matter?

-The 8 mins after my parking expired. As far as I'm aware, the BPA have a 10 minute grace period, but obviously I was there for longer than 10 minutes downloading the app. Have they got me by the balls here?

[dx100uk]

just remember it is not a FINE

 

 

its a speculative invoice

[renegadeimp]

Got you by the balls? Nope. But you've clearly shown their system is 100% not fit for purpose at all

[Bazooka Boo]

Parking Lie fail again!

 

You won't be paying them anything.

[ericsbrother]

there are many threads about this "double dipping" with ANPR systems and PE in particular.

 

1/ There was only 1 parking event and that started when you got out of the car when you were parked up, the rest is not to be counted-one of the flaws with ANPR as it doesnt measure parked time at all.

 

2/ If you were sat in your car trying to figure out their app then that is not parked time either

-there is relevant case law for on street parking and unless PE show that their methods

are better then the law will be an ACOP for your position.

 

3/ you are right, they have to allow AT LEAST 10 minutes to enter, drive round a bit,

find a space, park and then at the end of the parking period exit.

 

You say you got the demand 2 weeks later,

what was the date of the event

and when EXACTLY did you get the letter through your letter box?

 

 

Timing is critical in this matter as there may be no keeper liability

 

 

how you respond to them will be dependent upon that.

[johnnyinamoto]

Hi all,

 

Thanks so much for all the replies. It's really made me feel better about the situation.

 

there are many threads about this "double dipping" with ANPR systems and PE in particular.

1/ There was only 1 parking event and that started when you got out of the car when you were parked up, the rest is not to be counted-one of the flaws with ANPR as it doesnt measure parked time at all.

2/ If you were sat in your car trting to figure out their app then that is not parked time either-there is relevant case law for on street parking and unless PE show that there methods are better then the law will be an ACOP for your position.

3/ you are right, they have to allow AT LEAST 10 minutes to enter, drive round a bit, find a space, park and then at the end of the parking period exit.

You ay you got the demand 2 weeks later, what was the date of the event and when EXACTLY did you get the letter through your letter box? Timing is critical in this matter as there may be no keeper liability anyway so how you respond to them will be dependent upon that.

 

Ericsbrother, great. Thank's for the info.

 

I wasn't in the car when I was paying. I was actually walking around. Would this matter?

 

The incident happened on the 6th March, and I got the letter on the 18th March, so 12 days.

 

So there's two grace periods? Before and after? Didn't know that.

 

Thanks

Johnny

[johnnyinamoto]

Hi all,

 

Sorry to keep asking questions, but is there a template I can follow for a double dip appeal?

 

I've been reading a lot this weekend about it, and I'm being told that I need to use the correct jargon.

 

Thanks

Johnny

[johnnyinamoto]

there are many threads about this "double dipping" with ANPR systems and PE in particular.

 

1/ There was only 1 parking event and that started when you got out of the car when you were parked up, the rest is not to be counted-one of the flaws with ANPR as it doesnt measure parked time at all.

 

2/ If you were sat in your car trying to figure out their app then that is not parked time either

-there is relevant case law for on street parking and unless PE show that their methods

are better then the law will be an ACOP for your position.

 

3/ you are right, they have to allow AT LEAST 10 minutes to enter, drive round a bit,

find a space, park and then at the end of the parking period exit.

 

You say you got the demand 2 weeks later,

what was the date of the event

and when EXACTLY did you get the letter through your letter box?

 

 

Timing is critical in this matter as there may be no keeper liability

 

 

how you respond to them will be dependent upon that.

 

I just realised what's on the document.

Date of Issue: 11-03-16

14 Days to get the discount rate.

..but I received this on the 18-03-16, so that gives me 7 days. That doesn't seem very fair.

 

Mean's I've got less time to research this.

[dx100uk]

wont matter

 

 

you are not after a discount anyway

 

 

nor to paying anything..

[dx100uk]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?451820-Parking-eye-advice

from post 7

[BenMr]

It will help if you send a letter of complaint/appeal to the Landowner stating your mitigating circumstances. The landowner normally has administrator privileges with the parking company and the authority to request a ticket cancellation.

 

Also appeal with parking company.

 

It worked for me.

[renegadeimp]

 

 

 

 

It will help if you send a letter of complaint/appeal to the Landowner stating your mitigating circumstances. The landowner normally has administrator privileges with the parking company and the authority to request a ticket cancellation.

 

Also appeal with parking company.

 

It worked for me.

 

You need to read up on PPC's and the law and regulation surrounding it before giving advice. They arent genuine and certainly wont cancel a charge just because you ask.

[ericsbrother]

You appeal to the parking co saying that

"the vehicle entered and left the site on 2 separate occasions

and that this has been recorded by your not fit for purpose system as a single event.

 

 

If you do not review this properly and cancel the false claim the keeper requests that a POPLA code is issued

and that all footage of all traffic movements between the times stated is preserved

and presented to POPLA at the relevant time to prove or disprove the 2 versions of the events.

 

 

The keeper requests that in any case the CCTV data is kept for evidential purposes

in the event that PE decides to attempt to make a fallacious court claim

based upon the false data used in this charge notice"

 

They probably wont cancel

but at least you have created a paper trail that will make them look pretty stupid

and malicious when it comes to the next steps.

[johnnyinamoto]

You appeal to the parking co saying that "the vehicle entered and left the site on 2 separate occasions and that this has been recorded by your not fit for purpose system as a single event. If you do not review this properly and cancel the false claim the keeper requests that a POPLA code is issued and that all footage of all traffic movements between the times stated is preserved and presented to POPLA at the relevant time to prove or disprove the 2 versions of the events. The keeper requests that in any case the CCTV data is kept for evidential purposes in the event that PE decides to attempt to make a fallacious court claim based upon the false data used in this charge notice"

They probably wont cancel but at least you have created a paper trail that will make them look pretty stupid and malicious when it comes to the next steps.

 

Oh this is great. Thanks Ericsbrother. Should I not shoehorn somewhere that I needed 20 mins to download the app? If it goes to POPLA, then wouldn't it be better if I had given all available information at the start? They might have CCTV of me walking out of view, therefore assuming I'd left the premises...

[renegadeimp]

No. NEVER identify yourself as the driver.

 

Stick to what eric said.

 

Also POPLA is ran by the PPC's. Their decision is binding on them. Not you.

[johnnyinamoto]

No. NEVER identify yourself as the driver.

 

Stick to what eric said.

 

Also POPLA is ran by the PPC's. Their decision is binding on them. Not you.

 

Thanks

[ericsbrother]

to address the last bit first,

they arent registered with the Data Commissioners Office to film people wandering about so dont concern yourself with that.

 

 

Dont bother telling them how rubbish their app is yet either, save that for POPLA if they are stubborn enough to not cancel.

 

 

None of the details of your first appeal is goven to POPLA

-this would generally screw the parking co as it would show they were being greedy, obstructive and sometimes fraudulent and since POPLA is funded by the parking industry they dont bite off the hand that feeds them, just a gentle nip for each case rather than looking at the legal aspects of the industry as a whole.

 

You dont need to be nice to them either,

telling them that their system isnt fit for purpose isnt news to them,

they knew that when they bought into it so the stronger the language the more they see that you arent going to just pay up when they ignore your reasons..

[johnnyinamoto]

You dont need to be nice to them either, telling them that their system isnt fit for purpose isnt news to them, they knew that when they bought into it so the stronger the language the more they see that you arent going to just pay up when they ignore your reasons..

 

Thanks for this. I wanted to use their online form to appeal so they can't deny receiving it. They ask for identification. Obviously I won't say Driver, but I'm not the registered keeper, so should I identify myself as "None of the above"? Or should I use my wife's name as she's officially the Registered Keeper? Thanks for your help.

[renegadeimp]

Neither. You just refer to " The keeper" or " The registered Keeper" PE asks for id because that makes their job a whole lot easier and they dont have to go through all the legal stuff to do anything ( not that they can do much anyway)

[ericsbrother]

the letter was sent to the keeper so always use the third person and adress the respondent as "the keeper". You are just holding the pen. Dont name anyone, even though their letter will have a name on the top.

[johnnyinamoto]

Ok fair point. Thanks for this. Really appreciate it.

[johnnyinamoto]

Hi all,

 

I came here a few months ago with a problem with Parking Eye. I ended up appealing, but Parking Eye rejected it.

 

These are the details:

 

The facts:

-I wanted to go into Ibis car park because I was told it was cheap

-Entered holidayicon Inn car park accidentally because of confusing road layout

-Left Holiday Inn

-Entered Ibis, spent around 5-10 mins parking because it was tight and realised that it was actually very expensive

-Went back to Holiday Inn, saw that prices were cheaper so I parked

-The sign gave a few options of how to pay. One being a mobile app.

-Spent about 20 mins trying to download the app because of bad signal

-Left the premises in search of better signal

-Came back. Paid using the app. And left.

-There was no option to backdate the payment to the time I arrived

-After doing my business, I came back and I left 8 mins after my parking had expired.

 

So the car was literally in the car park between 1-2 minutes, then about 1 hour 20 mins. Not the combined amount that the ticket states.

 

Before I load up the POPLA form, is there anything I need to know? I don't want to fill it out incorrectly and take the fine.

 

Thanks

Johnny

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

I've merged your threads as it's usually better for the advisers to have the information together.

 

HB

[dx100uk]

Hi all,

 

I came here a few months ago with a problem with Parking Eye. I ended up appealing, but Parking Eye rejected it.

 

These are the details:

 

 

 

Before I load up the POPLA form, is there anything I need to know? I don't want to fill it out incorrectly and take the fine.

 

Thanks

Johnny

 

 

can you look carefully please...

and tell us where on their paperwork they use the word 'fine' please?

[johnnyinamoto]

Sorry. PCN