Natwest - Judgment in Default - joint bank account ***Claim Discontinued***

[the worm that turned]

I've had varying success with these types including DCA writing off 6000+ as gesture of goodwill

 

I don't like liars though!!

[martin2006]

I am still keen to know of follow up action as otherwise what is to stop them doing this to others.

 

My comment was in response to the above and meant you wont change the bad industry malpractice that goes on every day, unless of course you have very deep pockets and wish to take this to the highest courts.

I meant concentrate on your set aside, as long as these fleecers exist they will continue their corrupt ways, in the same way that you could never eliminate online fraud or counterfeit goods.

[the worm that turned]

Correct, to stop malpractice completely requires a large effort from many. However reporting individual cases of malpractice to the regulating authorities is a good and relatively cheap step to ensure that these people are held to account.

 

I had some great news earlier as I spoke at length with my friend's wife who is a solicitor and explained all and shared some of the documentation. She agrees with me on my assessment that there is no debt outstanding and is shocked at what the bank and its solicitors have done to me and more importantly, has agreed to assist me :-D:whoo:

[the worm that turned]

I have received a date for a hearing in my local county court for my application for the judgment in default to be set aside.

 

Now although I appreciate the kind and free advice my friend's wife has provided me,

I would be keen to hear on this site whether others have been to such a hearing,

what is involved, and whether it is something I should attempt to tackle on the day as litigant in person,

or hire a solicitor to represent me.

 

Your comments are highly appreciated!

 

Cheers TWTT

[dx100uk]

you don't need a sols

1000's of people have done it as a LIP

 

 

just remember

this is a hearing to set it aside

not going into any depth on anything.

[AndyOrch]

What evidence have you submitted in support of your application ?

[the worm that turned]

you don't need a sols

1000's of people have done it as a LIP

 

 

just remember

this is a hearing to set it aside

not going into any depth on anything.

 

That is reassuring. The last time I had a hearing as LIP (strike out of defence (mine)) I got firmly shafted on the day and don't want the same again!!!

 

Is there somewhere either on CAG or elsewhere where I can gain a good understanding of what I need to prepare document wise prior to and on the day of the hearing please? Are there requirements for Witness Statements to be served on the other party etc?

 

Many thanks!

 

What evidence have you submitted in support of your application ?

 

A WS setting out that the claim had been stayed for a LONG time, that the bank (in recorded conversations) had assured me I would be afforded an opportunity to defend and that an application for default judgment would not be made, that the bank's right to collect on the debt was extinguished following refusal of payments under an accepted payment plan and following their acceptance of an offer (ex gratia and without prejudice) to draw the matter to a conclusion, which they accepted by cashing the stapled cheque attached to the offer.

[AndyOrch]

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part13

 

All you need is a your Witness Statement...I would a serve a copy on the claimant and your application (if they court hasn't already)

[the worm that turned]

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part13

 

All you need is a your Witness Statement...I would a serve a copy on the claimant and your application (if they court hasn't already)

 

Just checking, but do you mean the WS I have already submitted with the application?

 

Reading the link you gave, where it states

 

Cases where the court must set aside judgment entered under Part 12

 

13.2 The court must set aside(GL) a judgment entered under Part 12 if judgment was wrongly entered because–

(a) in the case of a judgment in default of an acknowledgment of service, any of the conditions in rule 12.3(1) and 12.3(3) was not satisfied;

(b) in the case of a judgment in default of a defence, any of the conditions in rule 12.3(2) and 12.3(3) was not satisfied; or

© the whole of the claim was satisfied before judgment was entered.

 

How is the satisfied part determined?

[AndyOrch]

Just checking, but do you mean the WS I have already submitted with the application? Yes

 

Reading the link you gave, where it states

 

 

 

How is the satisfied part determined?

You have already paid it in full.

 

This is basic stuff for a set a side Im suprised your legal friend has not advised.

 

Andy

[the worm that turned]

You have already paid it in full.

 

This is basic stuff for a set a side Im suprised your legal friend has not advised.

 

Andy

 

Thanks Andy.

 

I am sure it is simple stuff for her, but I have already taken up a lot of her time discussing the ins and outs of the history. I assumed I could handle the set-aside myself and she said get back to her if I couldn't! Hopefully I can from what you guys are saying.

 

The reason I asked about the claim being satisfied is because I wasn't sure if that part of the CPR meant that both parties had to agree in writing or something similar to it being satisfied.

 

I am satisfied that it is settled as the Bank physically had to remove a cheque stapled to a letter containing an offer that said in writing that the ex gratia offer was made as a gesture of goodwill to draw matters to a conclusion, and that the Bank should refrain from registering derogatory remarks with CRAs, remove existing derogatory remarks, and mark the account as settled in full. The cheque was cashed by the Bank and on the reverse it stated that the cheque shall only be accepted and cashed by the payee overleaf if they accept all of the terms contained in the letter and shall not be used for any other purposes. However, I am sure the Bank will attempt to deny that at the hearing, or is that not the place for them to do so?

 

Do I need to take a copy of the letter as described above to the hearing or get it submitted prior to the hearing? I am not sure of the process with regards to the hearing. I know for the strike out hearing I attended previously for another situation both parties prepared and exchanged WS etc prior to it. Should I expect to receive something from the Bank prior to this one?

 

Thanks

[the worm that turned]

I had a further chat with my legal friend, who is also confident that I should be able to deal with this without her assistance, besides it wouldn't be her representing me so I would have to pay a colleague!

 

Regardless of the 'already paid in full' argument, which the Bank could attempt to argue,

she made me aware that my strongest argument for set aside is that the Claimant never made me aware

of the application for lifting of the stay and judgment in default.

 

 

In other words,

I only received notice of the Judgment following me contacting the court and informing them of my address change;

however the Bank and their Solicitors (despite lying in their WS) were aware of the address change long before making their application (as they had been communicating with me at the new address)!!!

 

She didn't go into detail about the particular CPR rule, but I assume this is covered under CPR rule 23.10, see below:

 

Application to set aside or vary order made without notice

 

23.10

(1) A person who was not served with a copy of the application notice before an order was made under rule 23.9, may apply to have the order set aside(GL) or varied.

(2) An application under this rule must be made within 7 days after the date on which the order was served on the person making the application.

Out of interest, do people know whether there should have been a hearing (that I could have attended), or whether the court can make the Judgment without a hearing (I assume under rule 23.8 ©)?

 

In my case, as explained, I didn't receive a copy of the application for lifting of the stay and Judgment to be entered in default, and certainly had no invite to a hearing, which I presume as it was given by a Judge in Northampton there was no hearing.

[panther12]

Did they give a reason for the delay in their app to lift stay,

did they serve you at a previous address.

 

I think you've complicated things by not filing a defence,

even if it was late as long as a defence is filed

before any request for judgment is received your late defence will take priority.

 

If they deliberately used a wrong address to serve the app and evidence in support,

if you can show your delay to file a defence was their doing

then I think you have good grounds to have the order set aside or varied.

[the worm that turned]

They promised that they would offer me a chance to defend before applying for Judgment. As a LIP I assumed that would be an actual offer to defend. Silly me.

 

What they in fact did was send me a threatening letter about paying the debt or otherwise they would apply for a Charging Order (which is not even possible without a CCJ or other order, which there wasn't at the time). Hardly an offer to submit a defence.

 

Lovely bunch.

 

This was after they had accepted a payment to bring matters to a conclusion and mark the account as settled with all CRAs.

 

Oh, and then lying in a Witness Statement by saying they received no response from me, despite being in written communication with me at my new address.

 

And I nearly forgot, they served papers at the incorrect old address, despite being aware that I had moved and whilst communicating to me at the new address.

 

So all in all, rather sly and underhanded business!!

 

Of course the Judge will be made aware of all of this, but whether he/she will care is another matter.

 

I have lost all faith in the integrity of people.

 

And before anyone says, you borrowed the money and therefore should pay it back:

1) according to the BoE Quarterly Bulletin Q1 2014, banks don't physically lend their own money (but hey that argument would get you nowhere despite being true); and

2) I offered to pay the bank money under a monthly agreement that they accepted, but they then started to send back the cheques, before then taking legal action against me.

 

So I can show that a delay in filing a defence was as a result of me expecting an offer to submit a defence before they would apply for a Judgment, and I can also show that a copy of the application notice to lift stay and enter Judgment was never received by me because they were sending it to the old address, whether that was deliberate or just stupidity I cannot tell.

[AndyOrch]

Time frames and the claim process are set by the courts...not the claimant.

 

Andy

[the worm that turned]

Are you referring to time frame to submit a defence?

[AndyOrch]

Yes its irrelevant what the claimant promises or agrees with you outside of the process...unless of course you have it in writing that they would not seek judgment.

[the worm that turned]

Well I have it in two recorded conversations. Good enough? I kind of take people on their word.

How foolish of me hey?

[AndyOrch]

Nope recording wont cut it.....written evidence only.

[the worm that turned]

Well in that case I will need to write the conversation down into an affidavit and submit it as evidence I guess.

[AndyOrch]

Possible...but the claimant on the defendant not submitting a defence at the appropriate time..is entitled to request judgment at the appropriate stage of the procedure.

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part15#15.3

 

and also CPR 12.1.

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part12

 

Just something to be aware of and what you may have to argue against Worm

[the worm that turned]

Cheers. I agree that they will argue this, I will argue the other and the Judge will make his/her decision.

 

I am hopeful that they will agree to set aside the Judgment without a hearing as it is the right thing to do. But is that likely...

[the worm that turned]

Both parties agreed to the CCJ being set aside and struck from the register without the need for a hearing and an officially stamped copy of the order was received from the court today. I now have a month to submit my defence.

 

Happy days

[AndyOrch]

Well done...please keep your thread updated with what transpires Worm.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[the worm that turned]

Nope recording wont cut it.....written evidence only.

 

BTW I now have this as written evidence, following a SAR from the Bank. Copy of written transcript that supports what I said and what is in the recording I have.

 

The mis-selling of the account in the first place is now in the hands of the FOS.