Son's unpaid magistrate's court fine ; bailiff at door & inventory collected

[starfarer]

Need a help.

 

The bailiff visit is for unpaid PCN. The last letter from Magistrate's court is for Remainder of unpaid fine dated 25th feb 2016. Other letter was Notice of fine. This morning a lady came by door from Marston and handed over the letter. She left and we tried to work out the reason for visit. We went to online and paid the original fine of £150.

 

The lady returned back after an hour and we told about the payment. But she said it's too late as we still have to pay the fine which totals to £460. We've no problem of paying £75 for compliance stage. But the agent said it's been to enforcement stage and the letter that was handed in morning was handed on 18th April. The letter was dated 18th. We tried to dispute this and even the lady who came in the morning was different person to who turned up.

 

Called police and after explaining everything, we let the agent into property. I enquired about warranty with officer and he confirmed it's a valid warrant. As the lady didn't have any details of previous correspondence, I called Marston customer service. We were told that the 3 letters were sent before today by royal mail which obviously failed to get delivered.

 

Issues I've is:

1. The letter dated 18th was handed to us today morning. But the agent kept on insisting it was handed on 18th.
   
2. The previous correspondence from Marston group were never received and we were unware of their involvement until this morning.
   
3. I've no problem with first stage ie compliance fee of £75 or even the later stages fee but the thing is we never recevied any of those warning letters.
   

 

Things the agent took

x bike key. Bike is parked somewhere god knows where but I'm had enough of the boy.

 

So, to summerise, where do we stand? Should we pay the bailiff's fee and done it or there are procedures we could follow. ATM my temperature is at high hearing too many lies from these so called bailiffs.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Bailiff Advice]

You have said that this debt is for an unpaid PCN and on the other hand, you state that you made payment to the Magistrates Court and had received a Notice of Fine/Collection Order and another document (presumably a Further Steps Notice) on 26th February. Clearly, the debt is for a magistrate court fine.

 

The last letter that you received from the court would almost certainly have been the Further Steps Notice and if you read that document carefully it tells you that unless payment is made within 10 working days that a warrant of control would be issued. Did you contact the court on receipt of this notice?

 

You should have received from Marston Group a statutory document called a Notice of Enforcement. This should have arrived with you sometime around the middle to end of March 2016. A compliance fee of £75 would have been added to the debt at this stage.

 

The enforcement agent this morning handed you a letter dated 18th April. I suspect that this letter was not entitled Notice of Enforcement and instead, was a notice to advise that a visit had taken place.

 

Once a warrant is issued, all payments made to the court are sent straight to the enforcement company. It should take about a week to 10 days for Marston Group to receive your online payment of £150.

[starfarer]

Hi, Thanks for reply. Yes it's the magistrate's court fine and remained unpaid until today. Only problem we have is that we never receive any letter or NoE from Marston. I called their hotline and they said they do have record of 3 letters sent to us via Royal Mail. The letter handed to us this morning is "Removal Notice". Again issue is not the letter or it's content but the agent's lies. She claimed to have handed it on 18th but it was this morning. Police were not interested as they said the date is 18th on letter.

[Bailiff Advice]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the document that the enforcement agent said was handed to you (or hand delivered) on the 18th April is not a statutory document at all. It is merely used to inform the household that a visit had taken place. The only statutory notice would have been the one sent by Marston Group around mid March entitled Notice of Enforcement.

 

I can appreciate that you are adamant that you had not received the Notice of Enforcement but given that you had received the Further Steps Notice dated 26th February you should have expected a letter from an enforcement company shortly thereafter.

 

The enforcement agent appears to be saying that a previous visit was also made on 18th April (when a 'removal notice' was left). Another visit was also made today. Accordingly, it would seem that the enforcement fees of £310 is due (£75 Compliance fee and £235 enforcement fee).

 

However....as long as you have a receipt for the online payment of £150, I would NOT make a duplicate payment for this sum. Marston Group will receive this payment from the court in the next week to 10 days.

[starfarer]

ok...that's a bad news indeed . They'd his bike's key, so hopefully they'll find it somewhere and sale it. I'm not paying for his silly mistakes.

 

I did saw the letter from Magistrate court regarding remainder fee. He said it was paid when asked couple weeks later. What a day to start with.....

[ploddertom]

Is this for you or another member of the household?

[starfarer]

my son. Hardly speak, talk or stay in evening. Had enough and happily see his bike go

[ploddertom]

In that case it is for him top deal with & not you. They may only seize any goods that belong to the debtor, it is a common ploy by Bailiffs to try & persuade you to pay on their behalf.

[Bailiff Advice]

my son. Hardly speak, talk or stay in evening. Had enough and happily see his bike go

 

Try not to upset yourself. This morning and again yesterday I received enquiries from parents about significant court fines that their son's had received for travelling on a train without paying. Youngsters these days so not seem that fussed about court fines. Such a shame.

[starfarer]

sorry for late as away for few weeks. So how does it work then if the fine remains unpaid? The way the boy going around, I don't think he cares about the debt and fear another visit is round the corner. Twist in story, last week received email from Collectica for "Notice of Enforcement" of £225 (150+75). Are they the same company?

[starfarer]

confirmed they're the same company and NOE they sent is just the copy which I requested.

[Bailiff Advice]

Collectica Ltd is a separate company. However, the firm is owned by Marston Group. I am confused though at the amount due £150 plus £75 (£225)

[starfarer]

It is just the copy of original letter they sent. I requested for "proof" that letters were sent to our address and they responded with the copy of letter .

[ploddertom]

If your son just decides to ignore it all then he does stand a real chance of being arrested, held in cells, then put in front of the Bench to explain why he has not paid.

[starfarer]

wooooo...sounds like the lesson he definitely need . But is that all bailiffs can do? what about household items? They said that I need to provide proof that I purchased them and not him. Who keeps receipt for years.

[ploddertom]

They can only take the goods that belong to the debtor. For this they need to have a modicum of sense. After all who heard of an 18year old having a houseful of furniture - the majority of which would be exempt anyway - when he has resided with his family. More likely he has the clothes he stands up in, a music system of sorts - maybe just a phone - and possibly some form of transport.

 

I assume you have made them aware of his residential status and that you are the householder.

[starfarer]

yes I did that.

 

On inventory list, the woman only put his bike details.

 

She only had a quick look on our living room which I told her that all belongs to me and spend few minutes going through his bedroom probably found nothing of interest/value there.

 

I do have few items of considerable value for which I don't have reciepts to prove ownership plus jewelleries.

[starfarer]

Update & new issue:

 

Lucky bailiffs..one day when they turned up, only wife was at home and she paid in full. That was in Sep 2016.

 

Issue now is they still have bike's key.

 

I called them numerous times this year but even the agent who collected key is saying that she can't recollect the events.

 

Sent email, phone calls & Marston complaint procedure...

.but getting a feeling now that they've either misplaced or lost the key.

 

We only realised re key as son moved out earlier this year and tried to sell the bike as was sitting outside unused with dead battery.

 

Now what are my options?

 

I was thinking of Small tribunal claims with:

a) Bailiff not following correct procedure ( inventory collected should've returned once paid) - £3000

b) Depreciation of vehicle (30% in a year) - £1000

c) cost of replacement key - £500

d) Tribunal fee - £150

 

Total: £4650

 

Never been to tribunals before so not sure if above are any grounds for claims.

 

Thanks.

[Bailiff Advice]

There are a number of points here and the first one is that any legal action must be brought by your son.....and not you. He is the debtor....you are not.

 

The claim is doomed for failure. The enforcement company (in this case Collectica ltd) is owned by Marston Holdings. That company are a £100 million turnover company and like all other enforcement businesses, they would defend a claim such as this and in doing so, would use Barristers etc.

 

All that your son could technically claim for is the cost of a replacement key.

 

Another point and one that is important is that if your son were to issue a claim, he would need to prove to the court what steps that he has taken to mitigate his losses. In other words, he would be required to outline what steps that he has taken to limit the value of the claim. If he has left his vehicle outside of your home for one year purely because he hasn't got a key, then the court would expect him to have paid £150 for a replacement long ago.

 

I'm sorry to say but the claim is a hopeless one.

[starfarer]

OK then I was wrong on claim point (a) & (b). What about © & (d) ? Not sure but think I gave a quick read somewhere that we can claim court fee from bailiff company.

[disgruntled2007]

Five hundred quid for a key...

 

And why do you now suddenly care about it?

[starfarer]

Now I'm getting really worried.

 

Marston could drag this forever until we give up until which time value of bike could go even lower.

 

We will have no rights to claim against company who breached industry procedure but are allowed to practice some dodgy tactics.

 

disgruntled2007 said:

Five hundred quid for a key...

 

And why do you now suddenly care about it?

 

Not sure but last time I replaced my car key it was £430.

It was just a round figure.

 

We're trying to sell but almost all buyers insisting a spare key.

With 1 key, we're getting £500 less than asking.

 

yes got all the paperwork with heading "Inventory" & "goods taken into control" & key was the only item taken from household.

 

ok thanks. Will look into contacting magistrate court.

 

I actually want to make arguments on few other grounds with sometimes we triumphing over these lots but as already replied earlier in the morning, looks like not possible. So yes wnat to have key back or the cost of replacement without any further hassle or wait.

[Bailiff Advice]

But do remember that you need to ensure that it is your son who needs to be making enquiries regarding the return of the key.

[Leakie]

Small claims court , as you have tried and failed to get remedy,

then Martson can not screw you over with legal fees only reasonable costs not Thousands

I would have thought that you can show how unreasonable they have been you have a good chance of winning.

[sgtbush]

If your going to pay £500 for a replacement key I'm going to buy a key cutting machine and sit outside your house!

 

As already explained your son needs to take the action not you.