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Hi guys

 

The letter says is for a personal guarantee against a business debt, does that make the difference?

 

Yes .... A personal guarantee is personal and has nothing to do with the company...therefore the form 6.1 is correct...assuming the PG has been drawn up and/or executed correctly, it could well be invalid.

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks andyorch

 

So if the date on it is October 9th last year, there is no point in me trying to contact him, as hes already out of time? As in, he doesnt actually even have the 18 days, because if i found him, he would have no way of proving when it was actually served?

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Date on the 6.1 is irrelevant...the date runs from service.Once served they have 4 months to proceed with the petition for Bankruptcy..after 4 months has passed they would require court permission to proceed.

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks andyorch

 

So if the date on it is October 9th last year, there is no point in me trying to contact him, as hes already out of time? As in, he doesnt actually even have the 18 days, because if i found him, he would have no way of proving when it was actually served?

 

Time runs from when it was actually served. There would of course be an argument about service, but the process server will do a statement for the claimant that they posted it though the door at the last known address for the debtor on x date.

 

So yes there could well be time for your friend to act if you find him.

 

I suspect that given the value of the debt that RBS may well proceed with bankruptcy in his absence. When it goes through the court, it may be advertised in local paper small column and London Gazette.

We could do with some help from you.

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It was hand delivered through my letter box yesterday,

So now I have 18 days to find him, and for him to act in that time.

 

 

I question the date, only because i wasnt sure if they had to make clear when it was put through letter box, Or served

 

 

. like they could now say he got it a month ago and have already acted on it.

 

 

Is that possible, can he get bankrupted and him have no knowledge about it?

 

 

I have made no effort to contact him to tell him in the past these people was looking for him,

and i feel terrible its come to this because of my ignoring the dept collectors.

 

 

I just felt it wasnt my place o do there job for them,

i was more concerned with the embarrassment of them coming here.

If he gets bankrupted, it would be my fault.

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It was hand delivered through my letter box yesterday, So now I have 18 days to find him, and for him to act in that time. I question the date, only because i wasnt sure if they had to make clear when it was put through letter box, Or served. like they could now say he got it a month ago and have already acted on it. Is that possible, can he get bankrupted and him have no knowledge about it? I have made no effort to contact him to tell him in the past these people was looking for him, and i feel terrible its come to this because of my ignoring the dept collectors. I just felt it wasnt my place o do there job for them, i was more concerned with the embarrassment of them coming here. If he gets bankrupted, it would be my fault.

 

Yes creditors do make people bankrupt in their absence. There is a live case on CAG where this has happened and a lady is appealing.

 

But it is not your fault and could never be your fault. It is always up to the person who owes money to stay in touch with creditors by providing an up to date address. If your friend has not done that, then it is their choice that they don't want to be found.

 

Also creditors have tracing agents to find people, so if they cannot find him using their resources, what chance do you have. Unless you know another friend or relative of his, who might still be in contact.

We could do with some help from you.

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Hi unclebulgaria67

 

We do have friends in common and ive contacted them to see if they can contact him, since i became house bound, i had little contact by choice with anyone by my choice. So I havent given up hope that he will get in touch in time. Im just at a loss how they can but legal document through my door that has a time limit on it, but with no date to start off the time limit, that's frustrating in the circumstances.

 

As for him letting his creditors know his address, these people only started to send letters after he moved out, his business was liquidated. and he was here for 8 months maybe a little more, and nothing came from anyone. So he doesnt know as far as i know, that these people are after him.

 

Not sure of his current situation, but when he lived here, he had nothing, bags of clothes and a games console. i assume he hasnt taken out credit, because a) he wouldnt be able to pay it back. or b) he wouldnt get it.

 

I stupidly assumed that legal papers had to have a current date on them, but if thats not the case. then im working blindly on finding him in time. I wanted to try to gather advice to give him if he turns up on what he needs to do fast.

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It was hand delivered through my letter box yesterday, So now I have 18 days to find him, and for him to act in that time. I question the date, only because i wasnt sure if they had to make clear when it was put through letter box, Or served. like they could now say he got it a month ago and have already acted on it. Is that possible, can he get bankrupted and him have no knowledge about it? I have made no effort to contact him to tell him in the past these people was looking for him, and i feel terrible its come to this because of my ignoring the dept collectors. I just felt it wasnt my place o do there job for them, i was more concerned with the embarrassment of them coming here. If he gets bankrupted, it would be my fault.

 

If a bankruptcy petition is based on a statutory demand, the petitioner must file at court with the petition a certificate of service verified by a statement of truth that gives details of the service of the demand. (Dated)

 

The person who verifies the certificate of service and statement of truth must be the person who served the demand, unless the debtor acknowledges service (agrees that they have been served it). If the debtor acknowledges service, then the person who should verify the certificate of service is the creditor or a person acting on their behalf.

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks andyorch

 

Then i guess there is nothing i can do if its a legitimate document. I rang the place that it was sent from today to tell them yet again he doesnt live here. It was interesting to say the least. All i can do is hope he gets in touch in time.

 

Hi dx100uk

 

Given the previous advice, is there any point still uploading the letter?

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Thanks andyorch

 

Then i guess there is nothing i can do if its a legitimate document. I rang the place that it was sent from today to tell them yet again he doesnt live here. It was interesting to say the least. All i can do is hope he gets in touch in time.

 

It is unfortunately the case that they can use your address legally, because it was the last address that is available for him.

 

If you send the statutory declaration back to Shoosmiths, as it was not served, because the debtor does not live at the address, it might make it very difficult for them. I cannot see that they could proceed with bankruptcy knowing that the SD was not served and that the process server had been made aware the debtor does not reside there.

 

If you can keep a copy and pass to your friend, if you manage to get hold of him.

We could do with some help from you.

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Hi dx100uk

 

Given the previous advice, is there any point still uploading the letter?

 

Not really its not your concern and there is nothing we can do to advise him.I know you are having to put up with the hounding...but they will give up ....eventually.

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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Hi unclebulgaria67

 

Thank you for your advice and patience. I gained some insight from ringing shoosmiths earlier today.

Its clear they are playing dirty to serve there statutory demand. But as its clear I can do nothing but wait for the next door knocking interview, and cross my fingers someone gets word to him. Its a shame these people get away with their antics!

 

Thank you all for your replies

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi again,

 

Well, im hoping i can get some further advice now things have changed a little and moved on with this, I wondered if you guys could offer some further advice.

 

I managed to get word to my friend about the statutory demand, but it was outside of the 18 days he had when he got word. So im assuming this made the statutory demand stand.

 

He contacted shoesmiths and was given the run around for a couple of days, as the person dealing with his case was out of the office for a few days.. When he eventually did catch her, he asked if the bank would take a small lump sum and a final settlement, as his monthly income was low and he had some savings he would use.

 

He was told the bank would do nothing until he filled in an income expenditure form. which they have sent him.

 

This is the worry for him now.

 

He, along with 2 other partners is the company director of a year old company. Its a Ltd company, and hes an employee of it. So now they would have it over his head about making him bankrupt im assuming is his main worry. He said he just wants to get this out of the way and behind him, I told him from what ive read on here It isnt going to be that simple.

 

I told him i would post in here to see if there was any way forward or advice he could get.

 

Many thanks for looking at this again.

 

A few questions.

Are they likely to accept around £8000 off a £25000 debt (absolutely every penny he has over his very tight monthy income)

How much information does he have to give on the income and expenditure form. (they want his work address, along with every other piece of information about his work, ie phone numbers payrole numbers etc)

They said they want proofs of everything, ie income, and all out goings...

 

Regards .... Friend in need

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Now you have contacted your friend, it is perhaps now time for you to stop your involvement. I don't mean this in any rude way, as you have done your friend a big favour by making him aware. BUT now your friend is aware of the statutory demand and is in contact with those chasing the debt, it is very important he gets proper debt/legal advice, where he can have a two way conversation with someone who deals with these situations. Otherwise it is just relaying information and we might not get the full picture.

 

If your friend contacts National Debtline, they can give him some basic confidential advice and he should then know best way forward. This may well be to advise the Banks Solicitors Shoosmiths of his financial position, make a small lump sum payment and to offer small affordable regular payments. If he starts repaying the debt, it is less likely the Bank can take forward any Bankruptcy.

 

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/

We could do with some help from you.

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Now you have contacted your friend, it is perhaps now time for you to stop your involvement. I don't mean this in any rude way, as you have done your friend a big favour by making him aware. BUT now your friend is aware of the statutory demand and is in contact with those chasing the debt, it is very important he gets proper debt/legal advice, where he can have a two way conversation with someone who deals with these situations. Otherwise it is just relaying information and we might not get the full picture.

 

If your friend contacts National Debtline, they can give him some basic confidential advice and he should then know best way forward. This may well be to advise the Banks Solicitors Shoosmiths of his financial position, make a small lump sum payment and to offer small affordable regular payments. If he starts repaying the debt, it is less likely the Bank can take forward any Bankruptcy.

 

 

 

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/

 

Erm, ok thanks anyway!

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Erm, ok thanks anyway.

 

Hope i did not offend ! We get a lot of people trying to help others posting on here, but the problem is that we don't have the full facts i.e knowledge of everything that has gone on and even any experts on insolvency are not going to offer advice to a third party on an internet forum.

 

If this is a business debt, there is a Business Debtline, he might wish to contact. Perhaps it is not too late to set aside the statutory demand. There may be issues with the debt, that a Solicitor can use to help your friend. If your friend speaks to someone who deals with business debts, he might be guided about how best to proceed.

We could do with some help from you.

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Hi unclebulgaria67

 

Friend asked me what he should do, I had told him i had posted in here, and read lots on here about finding out debt collection, and weather or not they had a legitimate right to pursue the debt etc, some for my own peace at times, and he asked could i get any advice about the income and expenditure form they sent him, that was all.

 

He has a tight monthly income, so going seeing a solicitor is out, as paying for one would then lessen his offer of a full and final settlement. I just thought there was something he might do before opening his wallet, and letting them take what they wanted. Right now, they have given him 7 days to respond with and income and expenditure form, and he has 2 days left. He is just about to do as he is told by them.

 

He does not use a computer himself, and would be at a loss in the forums. But i will pass on the advice that its to late for the forum to advise him. He is very much defeated in it, as it only came to his attention when it was too late. I knew all the details as i saw him through the liquidation of his company initially.

 

Thanks again.

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The 7 days to respond is only their timescale. It would be up to the Bank whether they wanted to spend a few thousand making your friend Bankrupt and if they are unsure of his financial position they might not bother. If they don't think they will get their money back, then they might just put in on the back burner.

 

Your friend, if he owes this debt and there are no issues of dispute he can raise, should complete the basic financial information, send it into Shoosmiths with a small payment amount, offering to make further small payments on a regular basis. Then see how they reply.

 

If your friend is not computer literate can still phone the Business Debtline

 

https://www.businessdebtline.org/

We could do with some help from you.

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That was the original point ...

 

He has no memory of ever signing this personal guarantee, all he remembers from that day, was them trying to push him into taking the £25000 as a personal loan, And them them insisting he took out some insurance type thing on the overdraft, payment protection.

 

He has no paper work, or statements, or anything to say what he owes, if he owes!

 

Thats why i came here at first, I knew this from 6 years ago when all this started!

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That was the original point ...

 

He has no memory of ever signing this personal guarantee, all he remembers from that day, was them trying to push him into taking the £25000 as a personal loan, And them them insisting he took out some insurance type thing on the overdraft, payment protection.

 

He has no paper work, or statements, or anything to say what he owes, if he owes!

 

Thats why i came here at first, I knew this from 6 years ago when all this started!

 

I know you are trying to help a friend, but it is really up to him to seek advice about this. He should seek legal advice from a Solicitors to submit a set aside of the statutory demand on a relevant basis. He still has time to do this, as the SD was not served to him personally and he has only just heard about it from you. Many Solicitors offer a free half an hour to discuss the issues being faced. The Business Debtline might also have advice about this.

 

The trouble with the SD is that if it is not set aside by applying to the nearest County Court that deals with insolvency, is that the Bank owed the money can petition for his Bankruptcy. He can still challenge such a petition, but then it is more difficult.

 

If he never signed up to or guaranteed the Bank loan, i am not sure why he phoned them making an offer of payment. Why not ask Shoosmiths to provide evidence of the loan agreement ior guarantee in his name.

We could do with some help from you.

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  • 1 month later...

Hello All,

 

I could really do with some help on what to do next.

 

I had a business that liquidated early in 2011. Its had an overdraft of £25k (unsecured)

They say i have personally guaranteed it.

 

 

The account was reviewed yearly, and at the last review i was more or less forced into taking protection on the account,

which is all i can recall about this last review,

i recall no conversation about personal guarantee being mentioned.

 

When my business failed, my personal life took a dip also, so I had a lot going on at once.

 

Fast forward to February 2016..

My old friend, whos address i stayed at during the period of my business failure and marriage breakdown

contacted me to tell me a firm of solicitors had been around to there home looking for me,

she informed them she had not seen me for a few years and had no contact with me.

 

6 month later, the same people hand delivered a letter with my name written on the front,

she opened it to find it was a statutory demand,

and proceeded to try to tract me down.

 

When i finally received this statutory demand it was out of an 18 day deadline

i was given on it to do anything about it.

 

 

My friend had previously asked for advice on here, and been given the debtline advice line.

 

I rang the solicitors who sent the statutory demand

they told me I could be made bankrupt at any time now,

the best thing to do would be to make an offer to settle this debt.

And was sent an income/expenditure form..

 

 

I was told it had to be back with them with an offer withing 7 day.

I filled this in, and made a full and final offer on the premise of a loan to avoid being made bankrupt.

It was for £8000 which would be all I could physically get together, or afford to repay.

 

 

They declined it.

I made this offer purely based on the fright of being made bankrupt.

I lost everything in 2011 and was frightened it was all going to happen again.

 

Debtline advised me to SAR them,

I have no idea what im doing with any of this and im really struggling.

 

 

i sent to SAR and a CCA off to the solicitors to be passed to the bank.

Now this is where i messed up and it gets really complicated.

 

I put the name of the solicitors on the postal orders, because was told all or any monies should be paid to them.

 

They passed on the CCA to the bank, but fulfilled the SAR themselves as the solicitors.

 

RBS sent me a letter telling me the CCA does not cover personal overdrafts,

but then sent me a breakdown of my balance outstanding to them.

It was for £672.96

 

Which all I can think of was the overdraft on my personal account the day they shut it down without telling me,

telling me they no longer wanted to do business with me because my business went into liquidation.

 

The SAR that the solicitor sent me is confusing...

Having tried to read up on what a SAR is i expected much more than i received.

All they sent was 2 letters they sent, a copy of the Statutory Demand,

and 2 very rough transcripts of the telephone conversations i had with them.

 

No instructions from the bank..

Nothing about the process server who was employed, or instructed to deliver the statutory demand

(which would have been useful to prove the posted to an address they knew i didn't live at if i needed it.

And that's all I have.

 

 

I just want to see this personal guarantee,

because as I say, I genuinely don't remember it being discussed at my last account review, or ever ..

I also wanted to check if there was this payment protection thing they sold me,

that could be claimed to cover the liquidation?..

 

 

. But going through the solicitors to try to get information, and quickly, hasn't done me any good so far.

 

Sorry this is so long winded, but trying to get as much information out as possible.

 

Thank You Very much for taking the time to read

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who are shoesmith's client please

 

 

send an sar to RBS.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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