Junk Mail

[Old Cogger]

This may be an obvious question, but is it possible to register with the Mail Pref Service as "The Occupier"? Anything addressed to The Occupier would therefore be addressed to someone who had registered with the MPS to prevent junk mail.

 

This seems so obvious that I'd be surprised if someone else hasn't thought of it, so it may not be possible or may not work, but just a thought.

 

Secondly, try not to get wound up. The only person who suffers if you do is yourself. I get mail from Virgin, and most of the time it just gets recycled. Occasionally I look at it, and wonder why the promotion doesn't have full details to allow me to evaluate it. But then I recycle it because my attitude is if they can't be bothered to use their time to tell me exactly why their product and prices are so good.... I certainly can't be bothered to spend my time working it out.

 

#

you can register BUT Royal Mail still dumps rubbish thru letterbox as we have found out

[dennisjackie]

You to are missing the point, this is addressed mail.

 

We all know you can register and Royal mail will stop un addressed mail are you sure it is Royal Mail have you caught the post man actually doing it if you are registered you need to take it up with them. just because you come home and find junk mail on your door mat and post. it don't mean the post man has put it there.

[rinfrance]

One knows if it is by the post office, it has an address, the occupier or name appears, and it is delivered normally by the postman. If these are not provable then it is unlikely to be by the post, which I believed we were discussing!

Now if the above is fulfilled in one way or another and the post office does not want the junk mail then they should not dispense it. I now live in France and if you put a sign on the box that you do not want junk mail NO person is allowed to put it in. If they do then it is supposed to be put in the mail box and then the system will "cure" the sender with a bill. If junk mail comes in from abroad, as much does, then the post office should just send it back to the sending country. If it is being put out "locally" viz UK then they have a choice, either refuse the stuff or accept the fall out.

Do not blame the person who sticks it back in the mail box with their address erased, nor say "poor Royal Mail having to deal with it" They are as culpable as the sender. Profiting by doing bad deeds is a bad thing so do not sympathise with those that do bad things.

[dennisjackie]

First of all as you state the law is different in France and from what you are saying sounds better at dealing with this issue.

 

You are talking about in your first line is addressed mail, UK postal regulation clearly put a duty on the Royal Mail deliver this. You can only opt out of unaddressed mail by registering with Royal Mail.

 

Most of this mail the Royal Mail have to accept under the universal service agreement and it starts its journey with another mail company such as UK Mail in this case. The Royal Mail have to deliver the final mile as its known, and there are limits on what they can charge for doing so set by the regulator.

 

As for post coming in from abroad again there are regulations that say they have to deliver it as long as it has the correct payment made, saying send it back to the country where it came from would involve Royal Mail in yet even more cost. That would just be added to the next postage rate increase.

 

As I have said I am not here to defend the Royal Mail but there hands are tied by the regulations, which from what you are saying are better in France than the UK.

 

My point is there should be a way of it being stopped from being posted in the first place or a way we can stop companies holding our details so they can send it out. So far no one has come up with a legal way of stopping this mail or a way to take action that would stop it entering the postal system. I am beginning to think in the UK there may not be any legislation I can use to stop it unlike France.

[wheeliefab]

Gather together the Virgin junk mail, write on it I do not want this junk mail. Send it back in one of there own envelopes to Virgin media, PO Box 333, Matrix Court, Swansea, SA7 9ZJ . Keep doing so as it may take more than one attempt but eventually they get the message and stop sending things to your address ---- yes even stops the ones addressed "to the occupier"

[dennisjackie]

Well it may have worked in your case, but for me it has not done it 5 times since Christmas plus letters to them and to there registered office and it still keeps coming. last one 3 days ago. How long did it stop it for and did you put stamps on it?

[wheeliefab]

took about 3 goes for me sending the stuff back to their customer services. I can't remember if I put stamp on or not

[dennisjackie]

Well at leased it worked for you and some others.

 

I know the letters I posted with stamps got to them as they responded with some poor excuses as to why they could not stop sending it to me. The ones without stamps got no response so either they ignored them or they did not get to them.

 

It looks like I will have to just keep trying to find a way of stopping them. I am also wandering if it is because of what I did 4 years ago (see post 30) and they have kept a record and its payback time.

[rinfrance]

I reiterate and as we used to live in the UK we know the UK situation, put mail that is junk back in the post box after having destroyed your address. If the royal mail were serious about the problem then as per other countries you would not get it. However, if everybody just stuck the junk mail back in the post box, believe me the Royal mail would "get it". They are making loads of money from you and others getting junk mail, there is no incentive to stop, just one to carry on. They can sendit back or just stick it in the bag of rubbish and inform the sending country that they no longer accept junk mail that is actually REFUSED in their country.

Give the Royal Mail the incentive, send it back. There is no cost to the Royal Mail to return to sender if in another country, the cost is incurred by the country who gives it back to the original sender. However, as it is illegal to do this in some countries sending junk mail to the UK then the sender may well incur a little option to subscribe to the States financial pot. A FINE!

In fact you can write across the top "Junk Mail not accepted by recipient" Scrub out address and repost it in the mail box.

There is no obligation for you to accept etc.

[dennisjackie]

Thanks for your reply Rinfrance. I think we are straying from my initial point, the point is all that needs to happen is the sender Virgin media, to stop sending the mail in the first place and the problem is solved. It is that simple or so I thought.

 

However the Royal Mail have to abide by the Universal Service Obligation and Ofcom regulations. I agree and accept they make money out of such mail.

 

But to state that there is no obligation on me to accepts such post I find a strange comment, as once it is received through my letter box. I have to deal with it in one way or another even if it is recycling it.

 

And your sentence "There is no cost to the Royal Mail to return to sender if in another country, the cost is incurred by the country who gives it back to the original sender." is a contradiction as there is a cost to the Royal Mail in handling it and returning it. Even if they dump it in the recycling there are disposal costs.

 

Anyway all that said I am not here to argue the case for Royal Mail or with you I just want to find a way of stopping Virgin Media from sending it in the first place. All the other companies over the years have stopped normally after just one phone call why should they be allowed to keep sending addressed mail to me I do not want?

[king12345]

Try flooding their twitter and Facebook pages with your story.

Explain the facts and publish their response where they say that they can't stop sending you junk mail.

Send it also to Mr Branson twitter and Facebook, he's the one orchestrating this tree killing exercise.

Once they block you (within 24 hours) open your own Twitter thread #stopvirginmediajunkmail and post a link to all websites you know including this one.

Name and shame!

[mouthyman]

Can anybody think of a way of public humiliation that can go onto Facebook, Twitter etc? Hopefully then it might go viral if the idea is good enough.

 

An example of public humiliation working can be the complaint to United Airlines - I think about for low cash limits for items broken when taken off passengers to go into an aircraft's hold for the flight. I thnk it showed baggage handlers throwing lots of "valuable" items around, dropping and breaking them. When it went viral on Youtube, United Airlines was humiliated in public, changed its behaviour and gave sensible money to the passenger whose goods they had broken whilst goods were in United's care.

 

The first thing that comes to mind is if people were to make a little video clip of what they do with the unwanted mailing addressed to the "Occupier". It could be of a video of the envelope going through the shredder, or the black rubbish bin outside. I did consider showing it used for toilet paper - but OUCH! The shredded version could be used as cat's litter perhaps? Even better if the cat refuses to pee on it?

 

Has that got anybody's creative juices flowing yet ....... ?

[Skweek1]

Virgin is a real pain - we long ago subscribed to all the "opting out" services, but they continue to send unwanted "The Occupier" mail. At first I thought was from my bank, since they are postmrked Halifax, but no. However, it doesn't stop the nuisance, but all junk mail goes straight back in the letter box marked "RTS - Gone away". Hopefully if we all did this, the senders would have to pay postage and would eventually give up - and at least it makes us feel better!

[geoff1248]

Much of the junk mail you receive is sent out by marketing companies under contract to the supplier eg Virgin, Talk Talk etc. The return address on the junk mail envelope is very often the address of the marketing company rather than the supplier.

These marketing companies are paid an amount per thousand letters they send out. If they stopped sending out your junk mail they would reduce their income hence no incentive for them to stop pestering you.

Alter the return address on the back of the envelope to the suppliers head quarters or, better still if you can find it, to the CEOs home address.

[mouthyman]

Much of the junk mail you receive is sent out by marketing companies under contract to the supplier eg Virgin, Talk Talk etc. The return address on the junk mail envelope is very often the address of the marketing company rather than the supplier.

These marketing companies are paid an amount per thousand letters they send out. If they stopped sending out your junk mail they would reduce their income hence no incentive for them to stop pestering you.

Alter the return address on the back of the envelope to the suppliers head quarters or, better still if you can find it, to the CEOs home address.

 

Good thought - anybody know the CEO's Home Address? Those local to him / her can drop the unwanted mail round personally?

[dennisjackie]

Sorry I've not been very active and replied to posts on site in last 2 weeks but went on holiday, so 2 weeks of no junk mail from Virgin but it was on the door mat when I got back.

 

I like the twitter and Facebook suggestions, but as I don't use either that's not really an option for me.

 

Geoff1248 has a good point that is not in the interest of some marketing companies to stop sending it as it cuts there income. And the suggestion to send it to the CEOs home address if we could find it is the best one, as it worked with this company before see my post 30.

[obiter dictum]

The majority of Door 2 Door items are processed and delivered by Royal Mail. Marketing companies have little input in the process unless directly employed by the customer.

 

Companies such as Virgin, Pizza Hut etc secure these contracts with Royal Mail three months in advance. That is going to increase with Bespoke delivey options targetting the resident. The recent Government Leaflet on the EU is an example. These Door 2 Door items are even picked up by Royal Mail direct from the printers. Royal Mail will then process those Door 2 Door items themselves to be sent on to the individual delivery offices.

 

You put these leaflets back into the postal system will simply jam up these automated sorting machines Royal Mail use so not a good idea that suggestion. Simple answer is to put such marketing material directly into your recycle bin and enrol in the preference service to be opted out of this Door to Door service.

Edited May 20, 2016 by obiter dictum

[dennisjackie]

Sorry this is addressed junk mail I am talking about.

 

Not Door 2 Door mail or as some Postmen call it bread and butter mail. And if you opt out of Door 2 Door mail as you call it you would not receive the government EU leaflet.

[obiter dictum]

Then you need to register on the preference service not to receive direct mailings from companies. Also get youself put on the restricted Electoral Register where such companies cannot access your details for direct mailings

[dennisjackie]

Sorry registering with the mail preference service only works if the company are members and this one is not, also it is only a voluntary code. (they are a bit like me have teeth but they are a bit false). Registering with them will in no way stop addressed Junk mail. Also being on the restricted electoral register, will not stop addressed mail there are many ways companies get our details other than the electoral register.

[IainHL]

All I can do is offer my own experience from a few years ago. I got right fed up with the amount of Virgin Media marketing mail address to "The Occupier" that was coming through the letterbox. My normal methods of trying to stop it did not work (ignore firstly, then "return to sender" suitably annotated to remove me in the post box, then actually in an envelope with a stamp as I wasn't convinced the RTS items were being returned), so eventually I wrote to the Chief Executive's Office (possibly at that PO Box address quoted above).

 

 

And an apologetic letter from one of the Executive Assistants and it stopped!

 

 

(And dennisjackie I do feel sorry for you that some people come along and can't be bothered to read the thread properly, and make suggestions that are patently not going to work with mail address to "The Occupier" and sent through the postal system.)

[dennisjackie]

Thanks for your reply IanHL, especially the last couple of lines.

 

I have sent a letter to the CEO at the registered office and with a stamp on it but got no response yet, that was just over 3 weeks ago.

 

What I find strange is in a country that has lots of legislation (to much some would say), we appear to have no way of stopping unsolicited addressed mail. Or claiming compensation for the time and expense it costs to try and stop them sending it in the first place, as it is a form of harassment if you have been in lengthy corresponded with them and they don't stop sending it. I would love to take a test case to court.

[Guest]

I would love to take a test case to court.

go for it the guy re the phone calls won...