Can I be sued in Germany for pre-small claims legal fees?

[londonderrry]

Hi all... I've never had any legal issues in my life, so this is a first for me.

 

Here's the summary:

 

I ordered something via the internet from a large company in Germany using paypal (total cost £50.)

I received the item in December.

 

This afternoon, I received an email from the company's lawyer saying that the paypal payment never went through,

and they are demanding the intial payment + attorney fees, or they are going to sue me.

 

I just checked my paypal account, and was genuinely surprised to find out that this wasn't a hoax of some kind.

My payment didn't go through, which has never happened before with paypal.

So I've gone ahead and sent the payment through again (this time it went through successfully.)

 

My question is about the attorney fees they are demanding, which are more than the original item.

I've never heard from this company since I made the purchase in December,

no emails, phone calls, or invoices in the post.

 

The letter from their solicitor says that they sent me an email,

but I've checked my spam folder and I've never received anything from them.

 

Am I responsible for their attorney fee if I settle the bill prior to them suing me?

That seems crazy, as I've never heard from them before about any billing problem.

Can they sue me in Germany for the legal fees, and would this somehow destroy my credit history?

 

Thanks for any help...

[AndyOrch]

Hi londonderrry and Welcome to CAG

 

How much are the legal fees?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[londonderrry]

It's not a lot (95 euro.) I'm willing to pay it if necessary, as I have an excellent credit score, which I will not risk, but I really object in principle, when I've never received any communication from either the company or paypal prior to today. Thanks!

[AndyOrch]

As nothing to do with your credit files (not that they could do anything being in Germany).

 

Anyway the debts paid..ignore the Solicitor and see if anything transpires..doubt it will...for £70.

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[londonderrry]

Thanks Andy... that makes me feel a lot better.

[BankFodder]

Please tell us who the lawyers are.

 

In fact, please can you publish the email here.

[londonderrry]

Hi Bankfodder, It is a Solicitor in Germany.

The email makes mention of requests for payment, but I've never received any communication,

including email (and I have not changed my email address, and I have checked my spam folder)

for either the supplier, the previous solicitor mentioned, or paypal.

 

 

At first I thought this message was spam, but when I checked my paypal account, using a different window (independently),

I was able to confirm that my purchase had not gone through for some reason.

 

 

It just said "uncompleted" next to the date and company information, which was really weird.

The solicitor is "Dr. Irwin Trasch, T6, 4-5, D-68161 Mannheim." If you have any further advice, it would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

Dear Mr. / Mrs. X

I hereby inform you that the solicitor's office X no longer has the mandate in the above-mentioned matter.

 

With immediate effect this solicitor's office Dr. Irwin Trasch, T6, 4-5, D-68161 Mannheim,

is charged with the legal representation in the above matter.

 

 

In my capacity as an attorney, I hereby verify that I have been granted power of attorney by X.

I refer to the email sent to you by our client concerning the payment requests of our client.

 

 

In the last reminder, dated 26.01.2016 you were given a deadline until 11.3.2016 to pay the purchase price of £50.00

 

The facts of the case can be summarised as follows:

You purchased an article from our client, X which you wanted to pay with PayPal.

The item was duly delivered to you.

 

 

Due to a technical error, the PayPal payment was not deducted from your account.

This can easily be confirmed by checking transaction number X in your PayPal account or your bank statement.

 

We summarise:

The item ordered was delivered to you by our client.

Your payment was not received.

Due to the repeated email payment requests from our client,

the last of which was dated 26.01.2016,

you have been in arrears since 12.03.2016 with the following amount:

Purchase price £50.00 Order no. X Invoice no. X.

 

The reminders of our client were ignored and payment was not executed.

Therefore, our client was forced to seek the assistance of a lawyer.

 

 

As a result of our intervention our client has until now incurred the following legal costs

amounting to a total of 70.20 €, based on the remuneration set forth in the RVG (German Lawyers' Fees Act ):

 

Dispute value: up to 500.00 €

1.3 attorney's fee no. 2300 VV RVG 58.50 €

lump sum for expenses no. 7002 VV RVG 11.70 €

Other expenses 25.00 €

Total 95.20 €

 

Our client is willing to refrain from pursuing a lawsuit,

if the total invoice amount of £58.95 owed plus attorney fees,

is transferred to the following account of our client latest:

29.04.2016

Account: X IBAN: X SWIFT Code: X

Please enter the following reference data in the reference field:

Order no. X

Invoice no. X

 

If the invoice has not been settled by expiration of the aforementioned period,

our client will be forced to sue for the purchase price in court.

 

 

You will thus, incur even further costs. In your own interest, we therefore ask you to settle your invoice punctually.

 

Should you have further questions, please send an e-mail to our client at X@X indicating the order number as reference.

Please do not take this e-mail into consideration in case you have already transferred the sum due into our account.

Yours sincerely

[unclebulgaria67]

That email is just a template which they add dates/amounts to. It won't be lawyers dealing with it, but simply admin staff within a debt collection office.

 

I think i would just respond to say that until an email dated x was received, you had no knowledge of a problem with the Paypal payment. No previous emails referred to have been received. You have now paid the £50 for the product purchased via Paypal on x date and as far as you are concerned this is the end of this matter. No further communications will be entered into.

[andydd]

Do they admit s technical error but still expect you to pay extra ? Jokers ! I'd just ignore, it pro wouldn't be worth legal action if they were a uk company, as they are in Germany it's almost impossible. Have hou asked Paypal what happened ?

[dx100uk]

ignore them.

 

 

nothing they can do to you.

 

 

dx

[ericsbrother]

ignore....

If they do try taking you to court then it will be an English court that will hear the matter and that will be an end to it as they cant claim the supposed cost here anyway and there is nothing else due.

Essentially they are sending you a letter asking for money for sending you that letter. We could all do that if it were legal to do so and the world would grind to a halt.

[ScarletPimpernel]

This doesn't ring true at all. That address is distinctly backstreet, and residential. Not what I'd expect of a lawyer in Germany at all - and I lived there for some years. I'd just ignore it.

[londonderrry]

Thanks so much for the advice everyone!

 

 

I am totally dumbfounded too about this issue,

as I've NEVER had a paypal transaction fail in my life (been on paypal for 10 years or so.)

 

 

I posted a reply to the German solicitor with your advice (unclebulgaria67), writing:

 

"Thank you for your correspondence.

I have had no knowledge of any problems with my paypal payment,

as no previous emails about the matter have been received.

 

 

I have now paid the requested £50.00 via bank tranfer as requested

(please see an internet screen shot of this transaction below.)

 

 

As far as I am concerned, this is the end of the matter and no further discussion will be entered into.

If you wish to pursue a legal dispute, than please send any further legal correspondence by registered post,

as I intend to defend my rights vigorously in court.

 

 

Kind regards and thanks."

 

I'll let you know if this escalates any further...