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    • Hi All, before I start I know there are similar threads of the topic I am raising, and each, of course, has its own unique scenario, which may benefit others. My case is as follows: 1. I saw a gumtree ad on the 16th of Oct 2020 for a Mercedes E220 CDI, priced at 7,500 2. I called the seller and said I will come over on the 17th of Oct 2020 to view. 3. On the 17th of Oct 2020 I went to his place where he is working and viewed the car. He is working for a major car rental company. I checked the car and of course asked the normal things to ask e.g. any insurance write-offs, loans, accidents, etc. The seller said the car is clean etc.no loan, he had a loan but all is paid off etc. and he has the papers. 4. I negotiated the car price to 6,800 because the rims were showing some signs of damage, the rear light had a small burst, cosmetics, etc. I checked all but did not see any sign of damage to the car (it's a black car, the car was a bit dirty, and the sun was already setting in) 5. We agreed on 6,800 and decided to purchase the car. We went into his office, where I paid cash, and also got a Car Sales Invoice with all details of the seller, and a V5C green slip 6. I purchased car insurance and drove off. I asked him about Road Tax and he said Road tax is paid so I have not to worry, just need car insurance. 7. On 18th of Oct 2020 I cleaned the car interior because it was really dirty inside - it took me a few hours so decided to clean the exterior the next day 8. On the 19th of Oct 2020 I went to clean the exterior and after the car was clean I noticed some parts were resprayed. I became a bit suspicious; so on the 19th of Oct 2020 in the eve, I went on the internet and run an HPI check. The outcome from the HPI did not show any accidents, insurance write-off but an outstanding Loan with Moneybarn. At this point, I thought maybe the database is not updated, etc. 9. On the 20th of Oct 2020, morning, things were going through my mind; the seller said the car is clean, no issues, no loan since he settled all etc. but the HPI reports say there is still some outstanding loan. So what I did, I called Moneybarn, and explained the situation, and gave them the contract number as well (since it was displayed on the HPI report). They said they will send me a form by email, but they cannot share any information due to Data Protection (GDPR). fair enough I thought, but what made me boil, they said they OWN the car! So, I took the car and drove to the seller where he is working. I confronted him. He said don't worry, I will handle it, he has no time, he is very busy and bla bla bla. I said what reasons do I have to trust you, you lied, and now you say you still have a debt, etc. So I said I will not leave until he has settled the debt, or repay me my money. I also asked what is outstanding, he said around 7,000. Well, since I confronted him at his workplace he may have felt the heat, he assured he will settle all soon, I said sorry, I need a date, so I said you will settle the debt with Moneybarn by 23 Oct 2020, if not, you will refund me my money. He said Ok he will do it, so I said, since I don't trust you, you will sign a piece of paper, and sign it. On the paper, he wrote "I will clear the debt for the Mercedes by Friday" and signed it. I said I am not happy and added the debt details with contract number, and also a clause that if he fails to settle the debt with Moneybarn by Friday the 23rd of Oct 2020, he will refund me my money, 6,800, and sales of the car Mercedes, license plate, will be void. Also, I said to put an initial on each amendment I made with signature. He did, and I left. 10. On 22 Oct I sent him a message, to remind him to settle the debt by Friday 23 Oct 2020 noontime and also I outlined some legal jargon I had to sent that I received from citizensadvice. 11. On 23 Oct, morning time, I received a message from the seller, he said he will not/cannot refund me the money, not to visit him at his office or place, and that he feels threatened by me. 12. Now, the dilemma/headache; a). I received the form from Moneybarn on the 20th of Oct 2020 and I have to send it back within 7 days b). the seller send me a message he will not refund the money c). is the seller holding the title with Moneybarn or did he also buy and not knowing there is an outstanding loan on it d). did he sent the V5C to DVLA since I have the green slip? e). Shall I fill in the form and sent it to Moneybarn? f). If Moneybarn has all my details they may send someone to repossess the car? 13. I decided, I will not undertake anything yet, because my mind said, go there, confront him, park the car in front of the company since I purchased it there and signed all paperwork in their office, they will call the police, the police will come and surely will not do anything but will force me to remove the car and park somewhere else, record all on camera, take all evidence, sent to Moneybarn and at the same time to the seller's employer (when I asked him to sign a letter he will settle the debt by Friday 23rd of Oct 2020, he used a paper of the car rental company, and on the back, the logo of the rental company is displayed clearly and he may have acted on behalf of the company to sell me the car, after all, I don't know if he holds the title with Moneybarn - well, this is an excuse for me to even sue the car rental company, or blacklist him with the company he is working for since it seems he is some type of manager there and he may have acted in the capacity as a sales person to sell the car to me on behalf the company....). 14. So on the 23rd of Oct 2020, I didn't do anything like described under 13....it's not my style as such I called AWH solicitors, explained all, and they said one person is specialized in dealing with such cases and will call me back after studying my case and inform me if it is something they can fight or not. So they will call me Monday the 26th of Oct 2020. I also said I want to go now and confront the seller, but she said better wait till Monday, and if they can fight the case, they will tell me the next course of action - but my funds are limited and cannot afford a lengthy battle, because if no case against Moneybarn means I will have to sue the seller to the court which will cost me. The car has comprehensive insurance and with all this saga I added on the 20th of Oct 2020 also legal insurance on top. Lengthy story, but I am trying to be as detailed as I can, and yes I should have done an HPI before buying the car, but I am from Holland and car sales work there a bit different, and this is my first time I buy from a private seller. Well, once I have sent the form to Moneybarn, I will park the car in a garage, and at this stage, I am renting a room in a house (there is one more tenant). Since I am from Holland, I am planning a trip within 2 weeks to visit my family and I will drive down with the car and in the meanwhile wait if the solicitor can be of any help. I need some advice though, I am still planning to drive down to the seller on Tuesday after I talked with the solicitor, park the car in front of the company, and confront the seller, and try to record all. I will also try to make him sign a letter that I purchased the car in good faith from him (regardless if he holds the title with Moneybarn or not but at least I purchased in good faith from him). Evidence that I have: 1. Car sales invoice 2. Paper that I made him sign 3. Gumtree ad; I could retract this from google history, but the original add removed from gumtree. At least I can show it was advertised 4. I tried to create a history of past owners, total owners including me are 5. It seems the car was also posted on gumtree before by a company in Essex (I saw on google). The reason for doing this, it is very likely that the seller purchased the car from someone else with an outstanding loan. Since then I read a lot on the internet, so please any advice is welcome to pursue my case, I paid a lot and at least I want my money back. Also what I read so far, Moneybarn is not easy to deal with...thanks in advance for any advice I can use for my case.
    • Hi   I think you need to check not just the serial number but what Meter Point Reference Number (MPRN) as the MPRN is what is registered and energy supplier go off as well as the serial number.   So you need to see what the MPRN is as well as the energy supplier it is registered with.   If you look at this Ofgem link: https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/consumers/household-gas-and-electricity-guide/connections-and-moving-home/who-my-gas-or-electricity-supplier   In the above link to do this check it gives a link to:   Find My Supplier: https://www.findmysupplier.energy/webapp/index.html (note you may have to complete a captcha, then input your postcode only and click find my address, when the list comes up click on your exact address, you will then see you actual MPRN and the energy supplier linked to your address)   With the above make sure and take the details of the MPRN and the Energy Supplier, better still take a screenshot/pdf the webpage.   Please let use know if on doing the above it matches your current supplier?  
    • I had exactly the same issues.   Grossly over estimated bills from January onwards.  Despite what they claim, they are effectively taking an interest free loan from their customer base to keep the company in business.   They can dress it up how they like.  It’s irrelevant if they reconcile the bills the following month because they just over bill again thus keeping a rolling interest free loan.   it took two months of constant badgering to be finally moved to a fixed DD.   Once that was done I didn’t care how much they over-estimated by.   I had raised a query with the ombudsman over the billing fiasco and they readied a complaint should I wish to proceed.   I thought everything was sorted until May/June whereby I was allegedly more in debt then I was expecting to the tune of an extra months DD.   On querying it, it transpired that even though I was on a fixed monthly DD, because the bill was generated less than 5 days before the DD was due to be taken they didn’t take the DD.   They offered £5 compensation by way of apology but wanted to take two months DD in June.  I told them where to get off.   With appalling customer service,  bills that you need a Maths degree to follow, and I do have one and still struggled, inability to follow through on any agreements, constant gross over-estimation, the missed DD was the final straw and I proceeded with complaint to ombudsman.   Prior to getting to that stage I had to quote Symbio’s own complaints procedure to them to get any sort of response.   Their final offer to me was £25 goodwill and to waive an exit fee. The offer was derisory given the time it had taken to get things sorted and the continuing ineptitude.  Also, the whole thing has dragged on so long (5 months) I was already in the final 49 days of my contract and therefore there were no exit fees to pay and therefore nothing to waive.   Anyway, upshot is, ombudsman found in my favour.  Ordered an apology and a goodwill payment. Symbio appealed but were told the decision stood.   This week I received the goodwill payment.   I promptly left an honest and truthful review on trustpilot.   The next morning I received an email from Symbio with an apology.   This was followed an hour later with an email from trustpilot saying Symbio had replied to the review.  On reading the response they have accused me of not following procedure and of cyber bullying.   The company is a complete joke.
    • why not simply tell you supplier they have the wrong meter number you been paying for usage , and ofcourse you can view this online too so its not as if you'll owe anything you might get a nice surprise and find you are owed a refund.
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      If circumstances have got to the point where you are finding it unmanageable you must ask yourself why you feel the need to pay.  I guarantee you that these companies have built bad debt into their business model and no one over there is losing any sleep over your debt to them!  They will see you as a victim and cash cow and they will be reluctant to discuss final offers, only ways to keep you paying with threats of court action or seizing your assets if you have any.
       
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      If it was me I would send them all a CCA request.   I would bet that not one will provide the correct response and you can quite legally stop paying them until such time as they do provide a response.   Even when they do you should check back here as they mostly send dodgy photo copies or generic rubbish that has no connection with your supposed debt.
       
      The money you are paying them should, as far as you are able, be put to a savings account for yourself and as a means of paying of one of these fleecers should they ever manage to get to to the point of a successful court judgement.  After six years they will not be able to start court action and that money will then become yours.
       
      They will of course pursue you for the funds and pass your file around various departments of their business and out to third parties.
       
      Your response is that you should treat it as a hobby.  I have numerous files of correspondence each faithfully organised showing the various letters from different DCA;s , solicitors etc with a mix of threats, inducements and offers.   It is like my stamp collection and I show it to anyone who is interested!
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Drydensfairfax Solicitors saying they have not received any payments


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Hi All

 

My husband has been made redundant and as such I have contacted all of my creditors to inform them that I’m only able to make token payments until we are back on our feet. I intend to start a thread for each of the institutions as they begin to communicate with me, all of the creditors have been provided with details of my earnings and our outgoings.

 

NatWest have sent me a Formal notice of intention to file a default and to take action to recover debt, I also received a Default Notice in the same envelope dated 15th July 2010 which I only received today 20th July 2010, both of these are attached and uploaded as PDF’s. NatWest have stated in the formal notice that “within 28 days of the date of this letter, satisfactory payment or arrangements for payment are to be made with us in response to the attached default notice”.

 

I have also uploaded a copy of the envelope if this is of any use.

 

What I would like to know is if the default notice is correct and if it conforms to the regulations of Section 87(1) of the CCA 1974 as quoted on the notice.

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited NatWest Formal Notice of Intention to File a Default Dated 15 July 2010-1.pdf

NatWest Envelope Received 20 July 2010.pdf

Edited NatWestDefault Notice Dated 15 July 2010.pdf

Edited by Missie Moo Moo
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Hi All

 

NatWest have sent me a Formal notice in relation to my overdraft of their intention to file a default and to take action to recover debt, I also received a Default Notice in the same envelope dated 16th July 2010 which I only received today 19th July 2010, both of these are attached and uploaded as PDF’s.

 

NatWest have stated in the formal notice that “within 28 days of the date of this letter, satisfactory payment or arrangements for payment are to be made with us in response to the attached default notice; information about your indebtedness will be given to the following Credit Reference Agencies, Calldreit, Equifax and Experian”.

 

I have also uploaded a copy of the envelope if this is of any use.

 

What I would like to know is if the default notice is correct and if it conforms to the regulations of Section 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA 1974 as quoted on the notice.

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited NatWest Overdraft Default Notice Dated 16 July 2010-1.pdf

NatWest Overdraft Envelope.pdf

Edited NatWest Overdraft Default Notice Dated 16 July 2010.pdf

Edited by Missie Moo Moo
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dn scan does not show date of letter.

 

dx

 

no thats an intention to file a default with the cra's

 

it is not a default notice

 

basically they are just saying in 28days we'll mark your CRA record.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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So the 76(1) & 98(1) notice is directly referred to as a default notice in the covering letter?

 

Have a read up on the statute law data base under 76(6) & 98(6). Shows something quite interesting.

 

Consumer Credit Act 1974 (c. 39) - Statute Law Database

 

 

Consumer Credit Act 1974 (c. 39) - Statute Law Database

 

 

 

 

Pumpytums

Edited by pumpytums
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Hi missie moo,

sorry to hear about your situation.

 

The DN is invalid if dated 15th keep quite until they demand full payment or terminate.

 

Pumpytums

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Hi dx100uk and Pumpytums

 

Thanks for taking time to look at this thread.

 

I had previously failed to include the rear of the default notice in the original scan; this has now been amended to include the date.

 

I had previously failed to include and attach the default notice; this has now been attached with the original documents..

 

Thanks again

 

MMM

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Hi Miss MM,

great as I said say nothing let them terminate/ demand the full amount.

 

Pumpytums

 

Hi Miss MM,

the form of the DN (or what ever it is) is actually correct they only have to allow 7 days on a 76(1) & 98(1) however the point still stands that this should not be used in default cases or when the debtor has breach part of the agreement.

 

 

Taken from Nastys T&C's

 

A Default Notice Fee will be payable if we need to serve a default notice on you (for example, if you fail to repay your overdraft on demand or we wish to enforce any security we hold). This is in addition to any other charges that may apply.

 

Fail indicates a breach Default notice indicates well, a default notice which is usually served because of a default. Q.E.D

 

Again I would say nothing.

 

 

Pumpytums

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi All

 

This week I have received 2 letters from NatWest both of which are attached, I’d like to know what my next steps should be as I’ve already provided them with what I’m able to pay them. My real concern is the added interest and charges that are going to levied to the accounts.

 

Your comments or advice as always will be appreciated.

 

MM

Edited Letter of disappointment following issue of Default Notice.pdf

Edited Important Information about borrowing on your account.pdf

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there is no complaint default notice contained in any of the scans so thus the termination notice is void too.

 

do a bit of reading on others with the same issue in the natwest forum

 

in my view they have unlawfully terminated the agreement.

 

dx

  • Haha 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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Hi dx,

 

The termination notice and the demand is only in relation to my overdraft, I haven’t yet received an account termination letter with regards to my credit card yet I will post here when and if it arrives.

 

I’ve had two further letters of communication today from MINT, the first being the Account Termination and the second being a letter from the Recoveries Manager. I have attached both on my MINT thread for comments/observations.

 

Your help is very much appreciated.

 

MM

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  • 2 months later...

Hi all

 

I've received a letter from NatWest regarding the default on my loan, I've added it as an attachment here for you to peruse and as per usual any comments will be gratefully received.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

MMM

NatWest Letter Following Default Notice.pdf

NatWest Letter Following Default on Overdraft.pdf

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Edited NatWest Overdraft Default Notice Dated 16 July 2010.pdf

 

That is the DN for the overdraft they are different from CC loans etc.You will receive a DN (traditional) for your loan when you get to 3 missed payments.

The penalty fees will be added to the overdraft.

Have you requested a copy of your agreement for the loan Account using Sec 77.

You cant request anything on the overdraft.

Have you contacted them by the date stipulated to discuss arrangements re the overdraft? Payment plan?

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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Have you actually received a DN for the loan?

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

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  • 7 months later...

Hi All

 

I have been battling with NatWest, Triton, Green & Co and more recently Irwin Mitchell. The phone calls from NatWest and Triton stopped after I sent them the phone harassment letter; I then received one letter from Green & Co dated 6th February 2011 which was a Sunday which I ignored. Irwin Mitchell started the nonsense again with continuous phone calls, so a harassment letter was also sent to them. I have had

 

I sent a CCA request to NatWest 5th February 2011 with the Postal Order for a £1 by recorded delivery; the request had a printed signature as advised on these forums, NatWest returned my request along with my payment stating that for Data Protection purposes they required my signature on my correspondence.

 

I found a useful thread which I followed the advice given by PGH7447 and sent off a non-compliance S77/78 letter to NatWest 25th March 2011, their reply was that they still required a signature for Data Protection purposes. I then used the account in dispute letter provided in this thread by Bazooka Boo and posted to NatWest and Irwin Mitchell 28th March 2011 these were delivered 29th March 2011.

 

My last correspondence from NatWest was their reply 29th March 2011 to my S77/78 non-compliance letter, it would appear that they have handed my file over to Irwin Mitchell as all correspondence has come from them and they’re beginning to turn the screw. Each letter has become more and more threatening.

 

I have been waiting for a letter of termination from NatWest but it hasn’t materialised as yet.

 

I have received a claim form from the County Court Bulk Centre dated 4th May 2011 for £5045.16which I have only received today having been away. This claim incorporates my overdraft which I have also defaulted on.

 

I would be grateful for any advice as to how I defend this claim.

Thanks as always

 

MMM

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moved to the legal forum

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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Hi Missy,

your DN is invalid but with the recent developments there is nothing stopping them reissuing it. They could request a stay in proceedings then issue a new DN when it expires they are back in the game. But they will generally settle for monthly payments. Did the OD account have advantage gold? Did the Loan have PPI? are there a large number of potentially (in the future if things go to plan) reclaimable bank charges?

 

You could defend on the dodgy DN it's not correct but they could do as I have detailed above. As it's just above the £5k it will go small claims. My suggestion is request any PPI, advantage gold, charges are refunded back to the account and that you will pay X until the balance is paid off. Make sure you make your position clear but put an offer that's comfortable for you to pay. I know this isn't the best news you would like to hear but if you can pay a small amount for the next 10 years so be it. If you want to sweeten the deal mention something like if you agree to the settlement you won't reclaim bank charges.

 

You may get a Tomlin order, but at the end of the day it's better than a CCJ and a charging order.

 

If they won't take your offer call their bluff go to court let the judge decide they could be getting £1 for the next 400 years. You may get a charging order but they won't get their cash any quicker.

 

One more thing that puts the wind up them ask them for the facility letter this is the one that gives you the OD, they won't have this.

 

Try something like :-

 

A true copy of the letter allegedly sent to the Defendant at inception of the overdraft facility, and any other letters reflecting any change to this facility, in accordance with the OFT Determination 21st December 1989 governing overdrafts. Proof of service of the same.

 

I hope this helps

 

Pumpytums

Edited by pumpytums
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  • 4 months later...

Hi All

 

This is an update and also a request for some further assistance.

 

I have a set aside date for 20th October;

I have also received a letter from Land Registry informing me of Natwest’s applying for a Charging Order on my house to which I have objected based on the forthcoming hearing.

 

 

Following my objection Natwest have finally supplied me with my CCA months after my initial request 4th February and again 23rd March.

 

 

Irwin Mitchell have followed this up with a letter stating that I should consider not going ahead with the hearing as my request has now been satisfied.

 

Should the overdraft and personal loan not have been presented at court by Natwest as two separate cases?

 

I have attached a copy of the CCA and the letter from Irwin Mitchell for your perusal.

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

I have today received a witness statement from Irwin Mitchell which is attached for your perusal.

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

MMM

Irwin Mitchell Letter Dated 20.09.11.pdf

Copy of Credit Agreement Letter Dated 21.09.11.pdf

Witness Statement from Irwin Mitchell Dated 12.10.11.pdf

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Hi mmm,

just to get up to speed they sent you a claim form did you file a defence?

 

Did you mention the invalid DN in your defence?

 

Have they ever sent you the facility letter for the od?

 

Did you ever send an offer "Without prejudice save as to costs" have you tried to come to an arrangement?

 

Why are they saying you did not receive the claim form? I'm a bit confused, did you acknowledge service back in May?

 

Thanks

 

Pumpytums

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Hi mmm,

I just had chance to read your thread, I'm not legally trained so please bear this in mind. I think you need to be really careful the Claimant has got a default judgement, did you not submit a defence? I think you are correct in that they cannot gain a judgement while they are in default of your CCA request which they seemed to have done. However they have now produced the CCA, I really don't know how a judge would view that. If your defence mentions the invalid DN then that would be grounds to have the judgement set aside but would the loan have finished by now anyway?

 

I would just be careful that the Claimants solicitor doesn't try to do you for some inflated costs.

 

I would hit the little triangle with the ! in a get some of the big guys n gals to help. Sorry I can't help more.

 

Pumpytums

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Thanks for your assistance again Pumpytums.

 

I was unable to file a defence as by the time I got back home and went through my mail the time had expired, I tried to file it online and wasn’t able to.

 

In my defence I mentioned that my account was in dispute due to Natwest not complying with my CCA request for a period of months.

 

I haven’t had a facility letter for the overdraft.

 

I haven’t sent an offer “without prejudice or come to any arrangement, my thoughts were to go back to court and take it from there.

 

I couldn’t acknowledge the service back in May as I was temporarily living with my mother.

 

As mentioned earlier I was unable to submit a defence as the time had expired.

 

The loan would have been paid off as of September 2011.

 

Thanks again

 

MMM

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Hi

 

You should straight away do an income and expenditure form for the judge to look at. He will make a repayment decision on what you can afford. The loan would be connected to your bank account, Lloyds also do this. Also you should mention to the judge that ALL default charges, late payment fees are paid back into the account to reduce the debt, was there any PPI?

 

This is now damage limitation so you need to get the judge to set aside their application for a charging order because they owe you charges etc.. . . It may take some time for the bank to get your paperwork together so you should send a full S.A.R for your account information, list of charges etc.

Some useful links.

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AQ Guide to Completion

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Witness Statements for Court Bundle

Banking Code Website

Limitations Act

Fast Track Costs

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