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Pace/Gladstones windscreen PCN claimform - london Docklands


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Hi. We're in a bit of a pickle.

 

My daughter went to visit her boyfriend's uncle in Dockland's London.

She doesn't know his address as she was being directed by her boyfriend.

He directed her to park in a visitors bay when they arrived.

This was in the evening a few months back.

 

She found a ticket on her windscreen which she still has somewhere,

but we read that these should be ignored as they are just trying it on, especially as she had parked in a visitors bay and only for a short while. So we ignored it.

 

The claimant on the form is Pace Recovery and Storage Ltd (or Ace Security as per Google).

The contact for sending documents or money is Gladstones Solicitors Ltd.

 

The initial charge was £100 but the claim form says:

Particulars of claim - total debt and interest £151.61

 

and opposite that there's a box with:

amount claimed 151.61

court fee 25

legal rep costs 50

total 226.61

 

My daughter is distraught because we were stupid and ignored it and also because she is broke - genuinely.

 

We are annoyed at the costs, esp the increase in costs from £100 to £151 plus all the other costs.

It is particularly bad when we can barely afford to live or pay utilities

yet we have no choice but to pay these fines

(I don't know why but she seems to attract parking tickets!!!

She has been depressed lately and not herself and we've had about six tickets in two months,

but this was the first and was a couple of months earlier).

 

We want to avoid a CCJ so will pay it if we have to but what are her rights?

If we agree some of the charge, say, the original £100 will the court accept that??

If we pay it all do we pay the £151 or the £226? Very confused.

 

 

How do the courts view these unfair charges esp as she thought a visitor bay would be alright to park in.

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

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Tell us about who the parking company is, (got that)

where and when the event was,(exactly)

 

 

when the NTK arrived through the post and

when a letter before action was received.

 

 

has she got any of the paperwork?

if so that will probably have enough errors in it to sink the claim.

 

Pace have only been IPC members since last November

so it may be that they can be defeated by their failure to offer suitable dispute resolution for the time of the event.

 

You are right about the added £50,

they do that as many people either just pay up or dont defend so they get the money by default.

Wont get it via a defended judgement.

 

DO NOT OFFER TO PAY ANYTHING,

they wont accept the amount but then you will have admitted liability and then have to pay the lot.

 

She has to acknowledge the claim within 14 days otherwise automatically lose.

 

 

Read the form and just tick the box saying she intends to defend the claim in full.

 

She will have then bought herself another fortnight to send in a skeleton defence,

doesnt need to be detailed at this stage,

all documentation will have to be exchanged shortly begfore the hearing date but it may well not get that far.

 

we need to know the wording on the signage to offer an opinion on whether there was a contractual obligation in the first place.

 

 

Her b/f should be able to get his uncle to photograph it and email her the pictures.

 

 

Photos of the signs and road markings at the entrance to the private land from the public highway

and any road markings as well as signs where parked and the aforementioned entrance signs.

 

Come back here very soon and tell us what you cana and we will then give you another to do list.

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Hi, sorry been ill last couple of days.

 

 

I will try and find the original tickets and put the details here.

 

 

Thanks for the tips about getting a photo etc.

 

 

If she defends then won't there be loads of costs added or is that a different scenario.

 

 

I think I read something on the stickies.

 

I will try and find tickets tomorrow. Thanks

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what is this letter you have

 

is it a claimform [n1] from the court?

or a letter from pace with it attached

 

 

or simply a threat of a court claim?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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no additional costs and the £50 can be challenged as mentioned previously

so the most it will be is £175 plus any of their witness' travel costs.

 

What is the date of issue on the N1 form as she has a limited time to respond.

As long as the acknowledgement of service is done in time she then has an extra fortnight to submit a defence

(no detail, just somehting like parking co has no authority to make claims or whatever big reason is chosen)

and all the detail is done as an exchange of documents about a fortnight before the hearing.

 

There are a few things that she shoudl do in the interim,

apart from getting a good set of pictures of the signs and the road markings

she should consider sending a CPR31.14 (request for discovery) letter

and demand sight of the contract between the landowner and the parking co

that assigns the right to enter into contract with the public,

make claims and take legal action in their own name

and for a copy of the planning permission for the signs they rely on to make contracts.

 

 

As they have bunged £50 on for their lawyer I am assuming that they are using a solicitor to issue this claim,

probably Gladstones, who are the IPC/IAS in another hat so you send the CPR to them.

 

 

They will try and tell you that it isnt necessary for them to reply to this for a small claims track hearing

but that hasnt been decided yet until after the allocation

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Hi

 

The N1 form was issued 8 April 2016 (says in the 'issue date' box). Which means, I think, that I have to respond today? By post - what if it doesn't arrive on time!!!

 

Still reading through stuff.

Daughter hasn't found the original ticket or letters after as I asked her.

 

 

I doubt she will be able to get any photos as the people she was visiting are a bit annoying but we will ask them anyway.

 

 

I can fill in the 'defence' about using a visitors bay and send this to the court today if that's what you think I should do???

 

Beginning to panic a bit now, got another of these to deal with and local authority ones!!!!

 

thanks

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Also, I would have thought it would be better to avoid a hearing as then PACE will turn up and claim witness costs from London or wherever. Costing us a fortune all told?? So £175 or £226 could end up being £500 or thereabouts.

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Also, I would have thought it would be better to avoid a hearing as then PACE will turn up and claim witness costs from London or wherever. Costing us a fortune all told?? So £175 or £226 could end up being £500 or thereabouts.

 

No it can't.

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It says on the form that I have 28 days to file an acknowledgement? But 14 days to file an application? Application for what - help I am very confused. Daughter is not handling this due to stress and I am off work ill and struggling to be honest.

 

There are also three boxes, 1) I intend to defend all the claim, 2) I intend to defend part of the claim, and 3) contest jurisdiction ? Which one do I tick?

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Why are you sending them back, you can do it all online. You have been asked and not answered if these papers are REAL.

 

Do they have a claim number and court stamp?

 

What court issued them? Northampton Bulk?

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have you got a claim number and a password to MCOL website?

 

 

if so

do it online

defend all

leave jusris unticked

 

 

you have till next Tuesday to ack [AOS] the claim.

 

 

ALWAYS defend all regardless

do it on MCOL website not by post

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I am unwell at the moment so probably panicking a bit and not reading things properly.

 

 

I will definitely do it online.

 

 

It is Northampton and the claim number is [removed].

 

 

So I will tick the first two boxed - defend all and defend part, yes?

 

 

For the bit where it asks how much I admit, do I put in a sum, e.g. £10 or say zero.

 

Court stamp:

there is a pale grey circle with a crown in it and below that it says 'the county court'.

I presume this is the official stamp as even Gladstones wouldn't forge such a thing.

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no you defend all

end of.

 

 

in the info box on the right

at its end

is there a password

yes or no .don't post it here

like you did the claim number:lol:

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Yes, there is a password - sorry about posting the claim number and thanks for removing it. So I will do this online:

 

Defend all.

Fill in whatever else I need to on the online form.

 

I will just read the link above first though.

 

 

We have extremely limited income at the moment as my firm are only paying me sick pay

so we want to avoid these costs.

 

 

But my DD gets a bit overwhelmed by things in her life and doesn't always watch where she parks the car.

It drives me nuts.

 

 

We've got another one of these where she parked in an empty car park at 7.30pm

but in a disabled bay!!!!

either her nor her passenger noticed.

Talk about asking for it.

 

Then there's the council one for parking in a loading bay to collect someone and their shopping, which she aims to defend.

 

Then there's the two other council ones for whatever silly reason.

 

All these in the space of about 6-8 weeks. Grrrr

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do it on mcol

defend all

leave juris unticked.

exit mcol

 

 

as for the other private disabled bay one.

 

 

any markings on the ground are purely tarmac griffitti

means nowt on private land

 

 

the same goes for blue badges..

no such thing on private land

they mean nowt

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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using paperwork

you tick box 1 -defending all of claim.

sign it and return to the address given.

 

 

This may be Northampton or it may be a different processing centre like Wigan.

 

 

If doing online you do the same,

tick the defend in full and leave the others well alone.

If you tick box 2 you are admitting you owe money

and you will lose the whole claim, not just the tenner you would like to pay.

 

 

This is not about the sum of money, it is about the rights of the company to make a claim

and they dont have one.

 

 

You will create that right by agreeing that you owe a tenner but they wont let it rest there.

 

Get your CPR 31.14 request for evidence sent off to the parking co or their solicitors, whoever signed the claim.

 

 

Also get the pictures of the signage, roads, parking spot, general layout,

measure size of signs and their hight above ground etc

 

 

taken fairly soon so we can look at them and offer advice on whether they have a leg to stand on

and whether the signs give rise to good defence points.

 

As you mention both yourself and your daughter, who is named on the N1?

That is the person who has to do this (or at least sign the documents).

 

Now both of you need to get a grip on this matter as it is not going to go away on its own,

you need to either get them to withdraw the claim by showing they dont have the right to make a claim

by showing they dont have planning permission for the signs for example,

 

 

or you have to have evidence to support your arguments and these must be something with substance

and not just a plea that you arent well.

Even dead people can be sued so that isnt a good enough defence.

 

Any hearing will be at your local county court so they will have to make the effort.

The company has already added spurious amounts to their claim in the hope that you are weak

and pay up without a fight,

 

 

they wont get that money even if you lose (unlikely) as long as you point out

that it isnt part of the original contract offered by the signage so again you need the evidence.

 

 

Once a judge has seen they are trying to pull the wool over his or her eyes

they wont get much in the way of costs for a successful claim

and they will probably have to pay full costs to you for their troubles for their naughtiness when you defeat them.

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Hi. Thanks for all your help so far.

 

I have just submitted AOS. I asked daughter about getting photos of the signs etc but she said she couldn't because she doesn't really know the person they were visiting - I gather it's very difficult for her to request this. It's not local to us either.

 

I am furious about this because she was being directed by her BF at the time and was told to park in the visitor bay which she did. The car she was driving was a loan car from BMW - a very nice car etc but it's not hers and that can't help I reckon. The income she gets is benefits as she's now a single mum and the judge or whoever will think 'hey you've got a nice car, sell it and pay the fine' but it wasn't and isn't her car. She does not own it.

 

I am angry that this firm can just demand £226 from us for what - we didn't get anything in return for this money.

 

If I can't convince her to go and get some photos, and if there is nothing on Google Maps, what can I do? No defence?

 

thanks. Sorry for all the questions

 

ps: just noticed that the claim form doesn't even indicate where the infringement took place, so if I can't find the original PCNs then game over I guess?

Edited by EveOwes
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give us the approximate address and we can google it

and hopefully someone local will read this thread and get the finer details.

 

Another good defence is that they have no planning permission for the signage

so as it is a criminal offence not to have it no contract can ever be formed as a result.

readb the other thread regarding PP, especially the Mansfield retail park one, it quotes all of the must haves.

 

 

All she needs to know then is the approximate area and the name of the company- you already have that.

 

Now, forget all about how poorly off she is and how badly she is been treated,

it makes no difference and to even mention it will get no sympathy form

anyone involved in the court claim so focus on what can make a difference.

 

Does she still ahve the same boyfriend?

If so he must know where his uncle lives so get him to pull his finger out and give uncle a call.

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Hi,

Just popping in to offer some support. I suspect PACE have been hoodwinked by Gladstones to take court action as Gladstones will get a big pay day out of this, win or lose.

 

The reason I say that is that PACE took no one to court in 2014/15 as they are such a small company and they don't even have electronic access to the DVLA.

 

I do feel we need dates of contravention.

The exact date of the windscreen ticket

The date on the letter which came to the keeper (this may be important)

Google maps location please.

 

It may turn out that although court papers have been issued, PACE still have the option of withdrawing. Let's hope they see sense.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi, sorry for not checking in lately but I ended up in hospital with my illness. Just to give you the bigger picture:

 

PACE (this thread)

I have a horrible suspicion that I might not have done something in time and that I will lose the judgement.

 

 

I did the AOS on 26 April (a Tuesday) and got that in on time but been ill since.

I went to check online today to see what's next but cannot find the paperwork anywhere and laptop doesn't like my password.

I am so disheartened by this.

 

 

I have spoken to daughter again and all she can say is it was near Canary Wharf overlooking the Dutch barges

and it was near a hotel. Totally not helpful. I am so angry with her.

 

 

The BF is useless and I'm not sure it was his uncle so think I'm not getting the info I need,

and she's chucked the original letters/tickets out.

Why would PACE change their mind?

I can't see them doing that.

 

 

I think it might be worth putting in a chancer of a challenge and ask them to prove this and that…???

If I haven't ran out of time.

 

 

I can't ask for another password because the system says I will need to answer other questions

and I'm now very confused.

So that's potentially £226.

 

Other tickets I am trying to sort out:

 

Merton council sent bailiff so £30 parking ticket now £420 or whatever.

No option but to pay £5 a week.

I made a £5/week arrangement on the phone with them

but for some reason was waiting to get something in the post and didn't,

so lost sight of it a bit.

 

Valley Park Croydon retail park - can't find the ticket at all. I will try and find out who issues the tickets there.

 

Wandsworth - I appealed asking them to issue ticket again as I didn't get chance to pay at reduced rate, so not a valid appeal really, just a request but there was no other way of doing this. Staff didn't seem interested at all. That was weeks ago now and haven't heard back from them.

 

St Helier hospital car park - ticket issued by Empark - has anybody heard of them?

Again, I'm really angry as she parked in staff car park after I said just drop me and go….!!!! :-x

 

Croydon council - went out drinking and left car overnight so another ticket.

 

Sutton council - she's lost ticket she got for being in a loading bay for a minute when she was picking somebody up with their shopping.

 

I am so stressed with all these and she's no help.

She cannot cope with this sort of stuff and assumes I can but this is defeating me.

We haven't had any tickets for ages then all these around the same time.

 

All this is going to cost about a grand.

 

thanks for your help so far.

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The N1 form was issued 8 April 2016

 

 

you needed to have filed a defence by 4pm today

 

 

you can fax, email or post your response to the Court instead.

If you send your response by e mail

please send it to [email protected] and ensure you quote “Claim response” in the subject field.

.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks for that, I really appreciate the info. I had a feeling it would be by 4pm today as it's two weeks after the AOS. I just couldn't log in. I will get something emailed to the court. OMG this country has gone to the dogs. Fines for everything and anything. It's not right.

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  • dx100uk changed the title to Pace/Gladstones windscreen PCN claimform - london Docklands
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