Selfish Uncaring Doctors back on strike

[Conniff]

All they think about is themselves not me and you, they don't really care that you are in severe pain or need a life saving operation.

They whinge they are doing too many hours and when the hours are cut they whinge they are losing pay.

 

Join the real world, you can't have it both ways.

 

How many will die in the next strike which will see the withdrawal of emergency cover as well. Proof there that they just don't care.

[unclebulgaria67]

I back the right to strike, but given that there are apparently 3 judicial reviews in the pipeline, i wonder whether it is worth damaging their case with the public. Public support for the strikes has reduced according to a new poll, but the public still support the Doctors case.

 

What the Doctors should be doing is taking their case forward with the public in a clear way, explaining that the new contracts are a risk to safety. The new work Rostas published by NHS England show that Doctors will still work very long hours and not have regular patterns of rest days where they can enjoy settled family life. The reduction of official hours without additional Doctors being employed, will mean either Doctors work unofficial extra hours or services are cut back.

[tobyjugg2]

It's Camerons Hunt that should be experiencing a lightning strike.

 

(say it fast to kill two birduns with one stroke/strike)

[Conniff]

Salary

 

•Average basic salary increase of 13.5 per cent

•Basic starting salary of £27,000 compared to £22,636 now - 19 per cent

•Three quarters of doctors receive a take home pay rise

 

 

Over-time

 

•Doctors receive time plus 30 per cent for any hours worked between 5pm-9pm on Saturday and 7am-9pm on Sunday

•Doctors working one in four Saturdays or more will receive a pay premium of 30 per cent for all Saturday hours

•Doctors receive time and a half for any hours worked Monday – Sunday between 9pm – 7am

 

 

Working hours

 

•Max number of hours worked every week by junior doctors from 91 to 72

•Max number of consecutive nights a doctor can work cut from seven to four

•No doctor ever rostered two weekends in a row

 

 

Safe working

 

•Every hospital to have a safety guardian to monitor safe working

•Financial penalties for hospitals that breach safe working hours to be paid to the safety guardian and reinvested in junior doctors education and training

[king12345]

Salary

 

•Average basic salary increase of 13.5 per cent

•Basic starting salary of £27,000 compared to £22,636 now - 19 per cent

•Three quarters of doctors receive a take home pay rise

 

 

Over-time

 

•Doctors receive time plus 30 per cent for any hours worked between 5pm-9pm on Saturday and 7am-9pm on Sunday

•Doctors working one in four Saturdays or more will receive a pay premium of 30 per cent for all Saturday hours

•Doctors receive time and a half for any hours worked Monday – Sunday between 9pm – 7am

 

 

Working hours

 

•Max number of hours worked every week by junior doctors from 91 to 72

•Max number of consecutive nights a doctor can work cut from seven to four

•No doctor ever rostered two weekends in a row

 

 

Safe working

 

•Every hospital to have a safety guardian to monitor safe working

•Financial penalties for hospitals that breach safe working hours to be paid to the safety guardian and reinvested in junior doctors education and training

 

Sounds fair to me.

They have a great responsibility and need to be compensated for that.

£27000 basic salary is peanuts considering what they do.

Furthermore, if it wasn't for workers' strike we wouldn't have the employment law that everyone benefits from, but we would still be working under the watchful eye of careless and bully employers

[tobyjugg2]

The very selective Hunt presentation has been refuted quite comprehensively and repeatedly even without the aspects of the 'deal' that would almost certainly result in hospitals being 'fined' for not meeting requirements that connot be met without a successful massive national recruitment campaign and the extra funding that would require.

[unclebulgaria67]

I have checked various informed articles on this and they mostly say that neither the Health Department/NHS England or the BMA are being totally honest. On one side they are trying to stretch current money to cover more hours at weekends and on the other side they refuse to admit that their main gripe is pay.

 

As was revealed in David Laws book on the coalition, the Head of NHS England was told to re-write a report into NHS funding, as said it needed something like £16 billion extra, when Treasury only wanted to provide £8 billion.

 

This pay argument is mostly about NHS funding. Junior Doctors pay makes up a large percentage of running costs and the management can't deliver full 7 day working including operations, within the current finances. At some point Treasury will have to find several billion a year towards pay and recruiting additional Doctors, Nurses etc.

[tobyjugg2]

I have checked various informed articles on this and they mostly say that neither the Health Department/NHS England or the BMA are being totally honest. On one side they are trying to stretch current money to cover more hours at weekends and on the other side they refuse to admit that their main gripe is pay.

 

As was revealed in David Laws book on the coalition, the Head of NHS England was told to re-write a report into NHS funding, as said it needed something like £16 billion extra, when Treasury only wanted to provide £8 billion.

 

This pay argument is mostly about NHS funding. Junior Doctors pay makes up a large percentage of running costs and the management can't deliver full 7 day working including operations, within the current finances. At some point Treasury will have to find several billion a year towards pay and recruiting additional Doctors, Nurses etc.

 

 

All that is true unc, but the main issue i have with Hunts proposals is that they include:

Fines for the hospitals if the doctors work more hours than the deal allows

(doesn't stop them working - just fines the hospital)

AND

Fines for the hospital if the targets aren't met - and even attempting to meet those targets requires more overtime from those doctors, not less (or massive recruitment - which just isnt happening or even possible given the funding.

 

Its just a [ploy] to fine money out (reduce the budget) of the NHS whatever happens.

[think about it]

Interesting that the government's own analysis of the contract says: "there are features of the new contract that impact disproportionately on women" and the equality assessment said that “certain features of the new contract will adversely impact on those who work part time”—most of whom would be women. And some aspects of the new contract “have certain adverse impacts regarding maternity” and “will potentially adversely impact on those who have responsibilities as carers,” most of whom are also women.

 

But, no - selfish and uncaring... You keep your Daily Mail subscription...

 

 

[think about it]

Salary

 

•Average basic salary increase of 13.5 per cent

•Basic starting salary of £27,000 compared to £22,636 now - 19 per cent

•Three quarters of doctors receive a take home pay rise

 

 

Over-time

 

•Doctors receive time plus 30 per cent for any hours worked between 5pm-9pm on Saturday and 7am-9pm on Sunday

•Doctors working one in four Saturdays or more will receive a pay premium of 30 per cent for all Saturday hours

•Doctors receive time and a half for any hours worked Monday – Sunday between 9pm – 7am

 

 

Working hours

 

•Max number of hours worked every week by junior doctors from 91 to 72

•Max number of consecutive nights a doctor can work cut from seven to four

•No doctor ever rostered two weekends in a row

 

 

Safe working

 

•Every hospital to have a safety guardian to monitor safe working

•Financial penalties for hospitals that breach safe working hours to be paid to the safety guardian and reinvested in junior doctors education and training

 

But lots rostered for three...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/junior-doctors-furious-after-new-example-rotas-show-them-working-three-weekends-in-a-row-a6882541.html

 

Interestingly also - a 'rest day' is preceded with working from 00:00 to 09:00 but because in Jeremy's little bubble everything is too compicated before 09:00 (

) those nine hours don't count as working on that day...

[scousebird]

As the mum of a jnr doctor.... i support the strike. After 5 yrs study and the expense of student loans (not for booze filled weekends... but basic study and living costs) there will be at least another 4 yrs studying whilst working. It isnt all about fair pay for hours worked (which in her first year usually meant her 8-5 shift was actually 7-10) just a safer working regime for staff and patients.

[goodatresearch]

Trouble is that everything is turning into a race to the bottom in the UK with a great pinch of envy. Someone's on a better salary than me so that's not fair attitude, encouraged by the governments divide and rule policies. Doctors deserve every penny they receive and it really annoys me that people think they can't be dedicated if they don't want their contracts changing to their detriment.

 

 

 

It will be nurses, HCAs, paramedics etcetera next. But hey, never mind, it will make the NHS ideal for privatisation.

[andydd]

Sounds fair to me.

They have a great responsibility and need to be compensated for that.

£27000 basic salary is peanuts considering what they do.

Furthermore, if it wasn't for workers' strike we wouldn't have the employment law that everyone benefits from, but we would still be working under the watchful eye of careless and bully employers

 

I agree, that's rubbish pay, good luck to the doctors, I'd kick up a fuss if I signed a contract and then had a new one forced upon me, oh may not even be legal, time will tell.

 

Mf Hunts cancellation of press conference and refusal to appear on any news programs speaks volumes.

[unclebulgaria67]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3528037/NHS-recruit-400-doctors-India-desperate-bid-plug-staffing-crisis.html

 

I think the Tories do have a privatisation agenda, where every part of the NHS is a private company. The public will still have access as they do now, but there will be less accountability in the system. Within 10 years you won't recognise the NHS, as it was.

[Ell-enn]

Why don't they just charge everyone who is working £1 per month extra in NI which goes direct to the NHS ? £31 million per month ???? who's going to miss 25p per week ? seems fairly simple to me - or is that the problem .... it's too simple ?

[tobyjugg2]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/10742723/New-statements-to-show-how-your-tax-money-was-spent.html

 

 

like car/road tax

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/89224/only-a-quarter-of-car-tax-is-spent-on-roads

 

http://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/health-care-spending-compared

[goodatresearch]

Hasn't there been reports that people close to Mr Hunt ate deeply involved in private health care?

 

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3528037/NHS-recruit-400-doctors-India-desperate-bid-plug-staffing-crisis.html

 

I think the Tories do have a privatisation agenda, where every part of the NHS is a private company. The public will still have access as they do now, but there will be less accountability in the system. Within 10 years you won't recognise the NHS, as it was.

[antone]

Why don't they just charge everyone who is working £1 per month extra in NI which goes direct to the NHS ? £31 million per month ???? who's going to miss 25p per week ? seems fairly simple to me - or is that the problem .... it's too simple ?

 

That would be an evil tax increase, and we can't have those because mumble mumble trickle down mumble supply side economics mumble.

[think about it]

It's interesting isn't it, the PM is implicit in tax fraud and avoidance and it's the hard working people seeking to protect their own terms and conditions of employment against changes which are by the government's own admission discriminatory against women, who incidentally account for 60% of the junior doctor workforce, who are selfish and uncaring.

 

Inflammatory nonsense.

[Bazooka Boo]

Good for them, I fully back the Drs every step of the way.

[sillygirl1]

I've worked in NHS Payroll and know how much the doctors get extra, and have had junior doctors not being able to understand that they get paid MONTHLY even though their rotas are over SIX weekends!

 

A lot of the 'new breed' of junior doctors have been hot-housed through school and college and university and have done little or no day to day work before hitting the wards, so it is a shock to their systems that they are NOT put first and they have to actually give something back in the way of their skills.

 

I am NOT in support of their actions at all.

[unclebulgaria67]

Have you seen some of the shifts ? 8am to 10pm in the evenings 4 days in a row is just one example. The new rostas will make it very difficult for these people. If you are working in say a central London hospital, with extra hours and commuting, it will make the job very difficult to sustain and enjoy a reasonable quality of life. If these people can move abroad to say Australia or New Zealand, they will find themselves in a much better working environment.

 

If the new contracts are as good as Jeremy Hunt suggests, why are the NHS Trust managers not selling it to their junior Doctors ? Surely the Doctors are on better terms with local management, so it easier to resolve in every local area.

[sillygirl1]

They are quoting normal shift patterns for NHS nursing staff...who seem to manage on far less than the junior doctors get.

 

The more you quote stuff at me the more I can refute the allegations on both sides.

 

I am NOT getting into any further discussions about the rights and wrongs of shift patterns and quality of life for junior doctors.

[goodatresearch]

Working in payroll isn't the same as dealing and caring for patients sillygirl. As for your comment that doctors don't understand their rota, as a former nurse I can tell you that payroll frequently under paid me and on one occasion it took the best part of a year to get the money back and by this time i hadnt been an NHS employee for 6 months. So perhaps your a bit to quicj to point the finger.

 

 

I've worked in NHS Payroll and know how much the doctors get extra, and have had junior doctors not being able to understand that they get paid MONTHLY even though their rotas are over SIX weekends!

 

A lot of the 'new breed' of junior doctors have been hot-housed through school and college and university and have done little or no day to day work before hitting the wards, so it is a shock to their systems that they are NOT put first and they have to actually give something back in the way of their skills.

 

I am NOT in support of their actions at all.

[goodatresearch]

They are quoting normal shift patterns for NHS nursing staff...wseem to manage on far less than the junior doctors get.

 

The more you quote stuff at me the more I can refute the allegations on both sides.

 

I am NOT getting into any further discussions about the rights and wrongs of shift patterns and quality of life for junior doctors.

 

Your probably not going to reply as you seem very angry at people supporting doctors. However I must point out that my husband is a full time NHS employee and although he has worked 12 hour shifts, hes not at work 48 hours per week. He works 37.5 hours plus his lunch break so what hospital do you work for where non doctors are at work 48 hours?