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Hi there, long time reader first time writer!

Hoping someone can clarify the most up to date advice please?

 

I've received a NTK from Athena ANPR Ltd for a "Civil Parking Charge Notice" for £90!!!!

for overstaying in a carpark at a Lidl store.

 

 

I hadnt noticed any parking restriction signage.

The store was due to close shortly after the vehicle was parked and was closed well before the vehicle left.

 

Alleged Infringement date was 24/03/16.

Date on the NTK is 31/03/16

Date received was 02/04/16

There is no mention of schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012.

 

There are 2 photos on the document showing only the vehicle number plate and headlights (the rest of the photos are very dark),

 

 

they are supposedly from an ANPR system which has overlayed some text

stating that the first photo was taken on entering the car park (with the time)

and the second on exiting (and the time)

 

I've not made any contact with Athena ANPR.

 

The document states that the appeals official body is the IAS,

and also that the company is a member of the IPC.

 

I've had an inappropriate invoice from a ppc before (as a NTD)

and have read into their poor operating standards and manipulative and bullying tactics.

.. and at the time the advice I read on-line was just to ignore the NTD,

which I did, and they never followed it up.

 

 

This time around I saw a post stating the advice had changed

and so I was hoping someone might be able to confirm if my best action is just to ignore it

or to write back stating that they will need to take the matter up with the driver of the vehicle at the time

and that I'm not obliged to disclose that information to them since

they are not a local authority or police constable etc.

 

Many thanks in advanced!

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi dx100uk, thanks for the swift reply!

I had already read through the page you've sent the link to and had used the 'questions' as the basis for my post, so I'm a little unclear which part you're pointing me towards. Apologise if I'm being dense!

Thanks

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can you post up the claim with your personal details redacted such as name, reg and calim ref number. We will need to see the rest of the letter to see if they mention any keeper liability and what you have supposedly doen to breach the contract as well as the details of the ultimate creditor (always an interesting one when it comes to proper appeals).

Chances are it isnt compliant so then you can respond accordingly.

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Hi. apologies for not uploading a copy before.

Hopefully it's now attached correctly and I have blanked out all the right details.

 

Apologies for the slightly grainy photo.

 

Here we go:

 

Hopefully ok now! thanks for the tip

cpcn.pdf

Edited by dx100uk
2*26Mb files reduced and merged to one .5Mb file
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thanks to whoever rejigged my Pdf into 1 document and blanked out the details I had missed on the second page!

Have read over on kumberly's post some advice about just ignoring them completely as they are likely to ignore any appeals etc, would that apply to me also?

Cheers

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the NTK is PoFA complaint,

a rare thing in itself so now you have to decide on what grounds you wish to appeal the cahrge on.

 

 

Is the store near to you and can you photograph the signage,

especially any at the entrance to the ca park and post it up.

 

 

Quite often the signage is just gobbledygook as for as creating a contract so that would be the firts step.

 

 

If the signs are not visible at the entrance

are they easily read whilst you are driving round the car park in the dead of night?

IF not how are you supposed to consider and accept the offer made by theri content?

 

Other reasons as well but we dont want to use all of our ammunition at this early stage.

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Hi Erics brother

Have grabbed some photos of the car park signage:

 

Image 1

shows the car park entrance where there is the sign (shown up close in image 2) on a lamp post.

it's quite high up to read from a car and whilst it's on the lampost it's not directly lit.

 

 

The wording doesnt seem to follow the "Red hand" rule

(if that still applies, i.e have they taken every opportunity to advertise the unreasonable level of fining which is in place?)

 

Image 3 shows a more detailed notice,

which is by the shop entrance (not directly lit)

and on a few other lamp posts around the car park.

 

Whilst there I spoke to a deputy manager of the store about parking fines there

and he said if I had been there to do some shopping (before leaving my car)

they'd be able to call up Athena and tell them to cancel that charge;

I'd just have to go back with the NTK letter itself.

 

 

He seemed to imply that they have done that for other customers in the past,

but might there be a possibility that by asking them to do that

Athena see it as an admission of liability and pursue the matter further regardless?

 

Many thanks in advanced for your advice!

Car Park Signs.pdf

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where are any of the signs or paperwork using that word FINE?

 

 

it is NOT a fine

its a speculative invoice.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi Again

I popped back to the store with the NTK and spoke to a Manager who contrary to what I was told last week said he couldnt do anything about just getting the invoice cancelled....

Now over a week since receiving the NTK, should I have appealed by now or something?

Thanks

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in essence the signs are not a contrcat but an "invitation to treat"

so there can only be a breach of contract if you decide to accept their offer

and agree to be bound to its conditions.

 

 

As there are no core terms of the contract offered then how can you consider it.

 

 

you can park and not breach the conditions becasue they havent offerd you anything to consider.

 

 

The other signs scattered around are so vague they are not worth a light,

for example parking is at the discretion of the landowner.

 

 

Well they didnt stop you parking so that is all OK then and nowt to do with Athena.

 

Speaking to the store manager will rarely yield resuts,

you need to send a complaint to the Chief Exec of Lidl Uk

and point out that the signage at this site is not a contract

so why are they letting these bandits use cameras

that have no planning consent to harass their customers

and collect private data when they have no lawful reason to do so.

 

 

A similar moan to the DVLA about passing on your keeper details when there was no cause of action that would allow it.

 

 

Point out Athena are abusing their access to the KADOE system to send out untrue claims and why are they allowing this?.

 

when this is all under way

appeal to athena as the keeper of the vehicle and point out that there was no breach of contract because the signage doesnt offer one

and to cease their attempts to get monies out of people by misrepresentation.

 

They will rejest your appeal but their chances of getting anywhere after that is minimal

as they will not have anything to show a breach of contract as the landlord has full discretion and not them.

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By appealing you are creating a paper trial that often condemns them by their responses or (in)actions.

 

 

If your appeal raises a correct legal point they then ignore

you can go after them for a full costs recovery order that will let you bill them

for 5 hours of preparation time for court @£19ph plus loss of earings, travel, food etc.

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Hi Eric, have drafted an email to Athena, do you think it's appropriate and will work?

 

To who it may concern

 

I am the registered keeper of the vehicle with registration number XXXX XXX and as such have received a 'Civil Parking charge Notice' with reference number 000XXXXXX from Athena ANPR ltd which purports to invoice a parking charge as a result of the vehicle being left in the Lidl supermarket car park on Queens Road in Attleborough, Norfolk, on the 24th April 2016 for longer than an allowed duration of stay.

 

I have reviewed the documentation and the signage in place at the car park in question and appeal the claim on the grounds that the signage does not legally create a contract between Athena ANPR and the driver of the vehicle which can have been been breeched and result in the unreasonable charge which has been requested. The details on the signage contain no core terms of a contract, therefore no contract was able to be considered by the driver of the vehicle on entering the car park and as such no breech of contract resulting in a charge could have occurred.

 

As requested by the documentation I am appealing this charge within the 21 days of receiving the notice and using an acceptable communication channel.

Please desist attempting to retrieve monies from myself as keeper of this vehicle by misrepresentation.

I recommend it is not worth your time attempting to intimidate me into paying this unreasonable and false charge.

 

Regards

Edited by springything
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how do I edit the above to remove the details I shouldnt have included ? :s the 'edit post' button on the bottom right has disappeared :(

 

removed personals for you

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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I would tell Lidl that athena are attempting to get money by fraud by misrepresentation and that Lidl are conspiring with them in this criminal enterprise by letting them issue these demands whan there is no contract offered by the rubbish signage at this place so it cannot be breached. What are they going to do about it?

 

As you ahe a decent amount of time to receive a response before you appeal to Athena wait for Lidl to do something or if they do nothing you go ahead with the appeal to the parking co anyway. then report Lidl and Athena to actionfraud for conspiracy to commit fraud.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi Ericsbrother

 

Thank you for your previous advice on appealing against athena.

 

After getting no response from Lidl I sent the appeal email to athena.

 

Then some time later I received an Overdue reminder and then a Final Demand from athena for the parking charge,

pdf's are attached.

 

Upon investigation it seems my appeal email had bounced and I had not noticed at the time.

 

Now that their wording includes reference to Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012,

and the fact that I've received these further letters, change how I should proceed?

 

 

Should I just re send a simple appeal email regarding no contract being formed as previously advised?

Many thanks

letters.pdf

Edited by dx100uk
2X30Mb single page docs merged to <.300kb - please dont upload such huge file sizes - dx
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no,

they got it wrong and now they want to choose a bit of the law that suits them.

They cant.

 

send the original letter and send it by post as even if they claim they havent got it

the law says they have (use free proof of posting at PO counter).

That doesnt apply to email.

 

get back on to Lidl head office.

 

 

Look up the UK boss's email address and give him some grief.

 

 

Dont let it rest with the company,

 

 

force them to say something even if it is a pathetic nowt to do wiv us guv letter

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