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    • nothing you can do can product against the very rare judge lottery syndrome.
    • not sure why you added the blue line I've highlighted? that's no in the we gave you.   as for your question... PRAC's roboclaim computer knows when the account was taken out, after all it raised the claim and checked everything carefully first before issuing the request via northants bulk courts equally inept roboclaim computer... 
    • I've been researching in preparation of compiling my particularised defence/WS.    I'm none too happy that some judges still seem to be siding with DCAs and seemingly brushing aside anything that we have assumed to be "necessary" for DCAs to have a winning case.    Reading a recent "summary" from another poster (another thread with case similar to mine - very old, illegible application form, no default notice, reliance on their own software to prove it was ever sent) and the judgment made in favour of the DCA and even suggesting that there was no "agreement with the DCA, they simply owned the debt, not the agreement"  Makes me very nervous.    Especially if cases like this will be judged on "probability" - the probability that if I signed the original application form, then I must have taken out the credit card and racked up the alleged debt as shown in statements enclosed in their WS (and dated some ten years later).   Is it ok to post some "evidence" I've found from elsewhere?    This is in line with my fears that regardless of how hard one tries to rebut the "lack of evidence" produced by DCAs for chasing these very old "alleged" debts, it does appear to come down to the luck of what judge you get on the day and how much they can be swayed by the DCA solicitor.    A quick Google search produced the following - from one case - this related to a credit agreement - which resulted in someone being made bankrupt - that person appealed the bankruptcy order on the grounds of defective credit agreement and default notice and this was the appeal judge's decision:   The necessary formalities for the entry into the regulated consumer credit agreement (which related to the debt in issue) were not complied with; The default notice served in respect of that credit agreement was defective.   The First Ground The Appellant argued that she did not receive the terms and conditions when she entered into the credit agreement and, accordingly, section 61 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (“CCA”) had not been complied with and the agreement could not be enforced. The agreement had been entered in 1995 and, whilst it had provided a microfiche copy of the front page of the application, the Respondent had been unable to provide a copy of the terms.   Despite the terms not being produced, the District Judge had found that, in the circumstances, it was very likely that such terms existed and would have been provided to the Appellant when she entered into the Agreement. Mr Justice Mann held that this was a finding that the District Judge was entitled to make.   Further, Mr Justice Mann found that it was implicit from the District Judge’s findings that she considered that the terms and conditions not only existed but had been subscribed to by the Appellant’s signature and, consequently, the requirements of section 61 CCA were fulfilled. Mr Justice Mann held that this was also a justifiable finding which should not be interfered with on appeal.   The Second Ground The Appellant also argued that the default notice upon which the Respondent relied did not comply with the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notice) Regulations 1989 because it stated the full balance of the account rather than the total of the missed payments. The Respondent argued that, as a result of the missed payments, it was contractually entitled to the entire balance subject to the service of the appropriate notice, a requirement which was fulfilled by the default notice itself and, consequently, the sum required to remedy the breach was the entire amount.   Mr Justice Mann agreed with the Respondent and the District Judge, holding that: “If by the time the default notice is served circumstances have arisen which entitle the lender to recover not merely sums which might be regarded as arrears, by which I assume is meant accumulated minimum payments, but also the whole of the sum, then they are entitled to claim that sum, and the sum to require to remedy the breach for non-payment of that sum is the payment of the whole sum due. The bank is not confined, at that stage, to claiming merely the amount of arrears if it has an accrued contractual right to have the whole of the sum.”   Do judgments like these not mean that a lot of what you guys do on here (and for which I and many others are VERY grateful) somewhat redundant. What is happening to judges just accepting "well, the terms must have been there if you signed it" -    Feeling quite nervous now.
    • we know it wasn't done to avoid enforcement we understand completely. but that doesn't take from away the fact that it happened   you can't appeal the pcn's on the basis that 'it was not his vehicle to levy upon'. the law clearly states otherwise.          
    • here is a question for you, is yu house divided up into a retail/business area  and domestic area for business rates purposes? If not why on earth are you paying business water rates? ceertainly not for tax purposes as you can claim any legit expense without having to reclassify your home as a business premises. i would be stopping this nonsense and goping back to whatever water supplier is the domestic one for your area. there is stuff all they can do to get the £40 from you whan you do that.
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kylie_smiley

Harlands and simply gym - again!

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Sorry, I can see there are many threads about this and I have searched but can't find any advice specific to my issue. I joined simply gym online in a period before a gym was actually open (joined at the end of November and gym due to open at the end of February) I decided it wasn't for me after all and simply cancelled my direct debit (I know, I know...!) I received an email on joining saying that my first direct debit would be taken on 26th February.

 

On the 14 dec I received a letter stating they had not been able to collect my direct debit (true, I'd cancelled it) and that I needed to pay it. I did ponder why they had tried to take my direct debit in December when a) the gym wasn't open and b) they'd said no direct debit was due until 26th February. There was no joining fee as I recall, as it was a pre opening offer but I think I was out of the 7 day cooling off period - can't find the information about that at the moment.

 

With the magic (!) of Christmas I completely forgot about the letter and did nothing 😕

 

In fairly certain I don't have to pay the admin charges (now up to £50) but I'm not even sure I need to pay the 12.99. Should I make telephone contact or send a recorded letter? Any advice, please?

 

It was a month by month contract.

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Hi kylie_smiley and Welcome to CAG

 

I have sent out an SOS to the more knowledgeable in advising on the above.Please await a response.

 

Regards

Andy


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Hi Kylie and welcome to CAG

 

Were you given T&C's at any time like when you signed up, or when you got the email saying the first DD was due at the end of Feb.

 

Was the email on 14th December from Harlands or the gym.

 

Please make no contact with the gym or Harlands until you reply to us.

 

I doubt you owe the gym or Harlands a penny, particularly if Harlands tried to take a payment too early.

 

:-)


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Hi, slick. I don't have a copy of the terms and conditions - none were emailed to me and I can't recall whether they were offered for me to read at sign up or not.

 

I signed up on 29th November and received an email confirming my direct debit details and then received a letter from Harlands dated 14th December saying they hadn't been able to take my direct debit and I should get in touch with them. Which I scoffed at, as I knew my first direct debit shouldn't have been going out until 26th February. .

 

I've filed that letter somewhere very safe (currently hunting it out) but have the letters that followed on (one of which arrived today) and that I subsequently ignored!

 

I haven't spoken to them at all as of yet.

Edited by slick132
Paragraphs spacing = easier to read

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Hi Kylie,

 

I haven't spoken to them at all as of yet.

 

Good, and make sure you don't speak to Harlands/CRS or the gym at all !!

 

If the last you heard from Harlands was back in Dec'r 2015, it may be that they've accepted you cancelled and/or they demanded when they should not have. But we're very used to seeing Harlands/CRS being doggedly relentless.

 

Do nothing more for now and just let us know if Harlands/CRS come at you with further demands.

 

You'll have already learned from other threads - the admin fees they add should never be paid and should always be chalenged and/or ignored.

 

:-)


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I have had a letter dated 14th December, a letter rec'd 4 March and a letter rec'd today.

 

Should I still ignore? They're now mentioning debt collection (however, I have read they can't enforce this) I suppose I just want to know whether I should now reply with a formal letter?

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I now (apparently) owe them £62.99.

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Never mind what they say you owe - it's rubbish !!

 

I didn't know about the 2 letters.

 

1. What was said in each letter. Just the main points, not the full letter.

 

2. Who was each letter from.

 

:-)


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No. I read back and realised I hadn't made that very clear - my apologies.

 

All letters are from Harlands

 

1. Dated 14 dec 2015 -tells me my bank has informed them my direct debit has been cancelled which means they couldn't collect my 'last' instalment due 26 Feb 2016

 

2. Dated 29th Feb (but not received until 4th March) a letter saying I had not contacted them and informing me of an admin charge. Also informing me that if I wanted to settle by post it shoutout get there no later than 7 th match which would have been tricky as I didn't pick up the letter until I got home at 5:30 that Friday night.

 

3. Dated 31st match and received today. Another letter adding an admin charge and stating they will have no option but to take further steps to collect the balance of £62.99. Asking me to call them, which I tried to do but couldn't get through. Says I need to contact them by 14th April or my balance will be passed to a debt recovery company

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Hi Kylie,

 

That makes much more sense now.

 

The first email saying the DD was cancelled referred to the future collection date correctly but described the instalment incorrectly.

 

The 2nd and 3rd emails are standard guff from Harlands/CRS.

 

I see you tried to call Harlands, albeit unsuccessfully. Never call them again as you've no need to do so and no good ever comes from talking to them.

 

Letter to Harlands :-

 

Dear Harlands,

 

Simply Gym Pre-opening Offer

 

I refer to your letters/demands of 14th December 2015, 29th Feb and 31st March 2016.

 

I signed up to Simply Gym in November 2016 on a pre-opening offer but cancelled the DD mandate shortly after, having reconsidered.

 

I owe the gym and/or Harlands nothing as I never used the gym which opened in February 2016.

 

I will pay no gym fees or your admin fees.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Send to Harlands by normal post but get a free Certificate of Posting at the PO Counter.

 

Keep us posted ..........

 

:-)


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Thanks so much. Will get that sorted tomorrow.

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Sorry to take so long to come back to this but just wanted to say that I think it worked!! Haven't heard from them for some time now. So thank you very much for all your advice :)

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Hi Kylie and thanks for the update.

 

We've seen cases where they come back to haunt folk more than 2 months after their last contact.

 

However, I think your case may be more clear-cut and they've realised from the letter that haven't got a hope in hell of you paying.

 

Let us know though .................

 

:-)


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*sob* they are back with a letter threatening legal action.

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Hi Kylie,

 

Enough of the Sobs already - just contine to ignore for now !! :wink:

 

:-)


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I'm still ignoring but have had a text now asking me to call them. I obviously won't, but all this talk of CCJs is a bit intimidating. I'm already in a DMP with step change so I don't want any more hassle 🙈

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Hi KS,

 

Talk of CCJ's is supposed to intimidate you but, because you're a CAGger, you should know far better than to be intimidated by these pathetic demands/requests.

 

There will be no CCJ but do you know who called you ?

 

:-)


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Hi slick. Nobody called me, it was a text. I've saved it for future reference.

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Ok, so the text was from whom ??

 

:-)


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CRS. Sorry - I thought I'd written that! 😆

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Thanks KS,

 

Ignore CRS for now.

 

See the post here and the ones that follow as they are encouraging - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?441948-Xercise-4-less-CRS-soon-Zinc&p=4926719&viewfull=1#post4926719

 

:-)


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Thanks, slick. I've just this minute had a phonecall with a voicemail. Left a message using a recorded voice.

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Noted but ignore for now.

 

:-)


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Another text from CRS - keep ignoring or is it time to send a letter asking them to stop?

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Writing letters only makes it worse...ignore.,,they will soon give up

 

Andy


We could do with some help from you.

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 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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