Reject car due to wrong mileage on odometer

[wah123]

Hello,

 

I need some advice please, I need to know if I have grounds to reject a new used car bought from a trader..

 

I bought a used car from a trader 4 days ago and this was advertised as having 44,000 mileage. After bringing the car home I noticed that it said 21,000 miles on the odometer. As soon as I noticed this I phoned the trader to ask about this and he said that the odometer had been changed which reset the mileage to zero and this is why it shows 21,000 (I phoned the manufacturer and they confirmed this).

 

There's 5 other things that are wrong with the car which are cosmetic... Boot shelf lug broken, floor mat holder clip missing, cup holder stuck inside dashboard, condensation inside rear lights and front bumper has a space between it and the body.

 

These other things can be fixed, but I am not happy about the odometer showing the incorrect mileage. I would never have bought the car if I had known this. This wasn't mentioned in the advert and it wasn't mentioned by the trader when I went to buy the car. I know I should have checked but sometimes things are missed.

 

Do I have any grounds to reject?

 

 

Thanks

[AndyOrch]

Hi wah123 and Welcome to CAG

 

The mileage reading on the odometer of a vehicle is a 'trade description'; if it is wrong then it is a 'false trade description'. Wherever that reading is used or displayed constitutes a separate offence.

 

A false trade description or a failure to comply with the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, is a breach of the law and is treated as a criminal offence.

 

If you enter the mileage on the Order Form, Invoice, Warranty or other documentation then that entry is a trade description, and if wrong a separate offence occurs on each occasion. The issue can also be seen as a misrepresentation of goods.

 

The same applies to any other misdescription or inaccuracy.

 

http://www.lawgistics.co.uk/legal-article-business-law/motor-trade-advice/the-need-for-mileage-accuracy

 

Thread moved to the appropriate forum.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[wah123]

Hello Andy,

 

I have sent the trader a letter about rejecting the car. I am awaiting his response.

 

Good info there, so it seems I may have a chance. I'll look into that link.

 

Thanks a lot for your help

[AndyOrch]

[oddjobbob]

hang on though.

 

If the vehicle has actually covered 44000 then the fact that the odometer has been changed is not a false description. It was advertised as 44000, not 21000.

 

Otherwise what andyorch is saying means that any vehicle that has had a speedo change cannot be legally sold? or am I missing something?

 

Also the other faults are very very minor and not grounds for rejection.

[oddjobbob]

hang on though.

 

If the vehicle has actually covered 44000 then the fact that the odometer has been changed is not a false description. It was advertised as 44000, not 21000.

 

Otherwise what andyorch is saying means that any vehicle that has had a speedo change cannot be legally sold? or am I missing something?

 

Also the other faults are very very minor and not grounds for rejection.

 

Hi. Yes, that's what I am not clear about. The mileage is actually correct, but it is the fact that I was not made aware of the speedometer change before buying the car. This would have affected my decision if I had known about this.

 

If its any consolation as long as the speedo change is documented then there is very little effect on value

[AndyOrch]

hang on though.

 

If the vehicle has actually covered 44000 then the fact that the odometer has been changed is not a false description. It was advertised as 44000, not 21000.

 

Otherwise what andyorch is saying means that any vehicle that has had a speedo change cannot be legally sold? or am I missing something?

 

Also the other faults are very very minor and not grounds for rejection.

 

Read the post again ...carefully...it does not refer to a speedometer change.

[oddjobbob]

Yes, I can see that. If the OP was openly informed before purchase and the receipt showed a speedo change then that's ok.

[wah123]

Yes, I can see that. If the OP was openly informed before purchase and the receipt showed a speedo change then that's ok.

 

I wasn't informed about the speedo change before purchase. After paying for the car and bringing it home I noticed the mileage on the speedo (I forgot to check this when viewing the car). I then rang the trader after bringing the car home to ask him why the mileage is showing as 21k instead of 44k, and that is when he told me about the speedo change, it had been replaced in 2014.

[oddjobbob]

Ok. on the receipt what is the mileage shown?

 

It SHOULD say 21000 then a note to say speedo change at 23000 total mileage 44000.

[wah123]

Ok. on the receipt what is the mileage shown?

 

It SHOULD say 21000 then a note to say speedo change at 23000 total mileage 44000.

 

The receipt says 44,000 mileage. No mention of any odometer change.

 

Ah, Just realised after checking again on the receipt is says '45k' mileage and on the pre-delivery inspection sheet it says 45450 mileage. On the Autotrader description it says 44,000 (I requested this info from Autotrader as the original AD was removed).

[JoeyJoeC]

This is what happens when you don't inspect a car you're about to buy. You would have noticed a few of these points at least. Did you not look at the dash at all for lights or anything?

[wah123]

This is what happens when you don't inspect a car you're about to buy. You would have noticed a few of these points at least. Did you not look at the dash at all for lights or anything?

 

I did inspect it but I was looking to see if other stuff works like electric windows, doors, engine bay, radio, seats etc. It happens, sometimes things are missed.

[scaniaman]

I'm unclear as to how this happened on a modern car. On SOME cars you can fit any speedo you want, new or s/h but the ecu has the genuine mileage stored and should show what is stored rather than what is on replacement speedo.

[oddjobbob]

Well you've got a chance to reject it, but I think you might struggle.

 

The dealer hasn't really misrepresented it...or if he HAS then it's arguably the wrong way round, ie didn't try to put '21000 recorded miles' in the ad, etc, but just sold it for what it was, a 45000 mile car. Thevalue is not adversely affected.

 

However TS are very hot on mileage discrepancies and if you threaten this he might refund.

 

But I suspect not willingly!

[Conniff]

This is not something to be taken lightly, either up or down, if the correct mileage or anything affecting it is not declared to the buyer, then that is a 'misleading omission'. On the receipt does not make it ok unless it is pointed out to the buyer at the time and he agrees.

 

You have the full weight of the regulation behind you and are within the 30 days where you can reject the car without question.

[oddjobbob]

This is not something to be taken lightly, either up or down, if the correct mileage or anything affecting it is not declared to the buyer, then that is a 'misleading omission'. On the receipt does not make it ok unless it is pointed out to the buyer at the time and he agrees.

 

You have the full weight of the regulation behind you and are within the 30 days where you can reject the car without question.

 

Well let's hope the dealer plays ball then!

 

But I can foresee it might be a struggle, law or not.

 

Let's hope it goes ok for the OP.

[wah123]

Thanks everyone for all your help. I can understand your points, but the fact is that it was wrong for them to keep that information from me, regardless of whether I have a case or not.

 

I sent a letter to the trader, and today I have received a reply from a company called lawgistics who are acting on their behalf. They said they'll contact me again in a couple of days with proper reply after receiving instructions from the trader.

[oddjobbob]

There's no doubt you have a case, it's whether or not the dealer will actually refund you.

 

Let's hope he does.

 

If you are still using the car you need to stop using it ASAP until you get your money back.

[wah123]

There's no doubt you have a case, it's whether or not the dealer will actually refund you.

 

Let's hope he does.

 

If you are still using the car you need to stop using it ASAP until you get your money back.

 

Yeah, I hope it's a good outcome for me.

 

I did stop using it which was the first thing I did. There's two cars in the household so that's not a problem.

[Conniff]

Lawgistics is a legal club for motor traders.

 

You need to be definite in your intentions, have you made a final decision that you want to reject the car and there is no going back ??

Edited April 5, 2016 by Conniff

[liverpoolluke]

The milage description you refer to should be seen as visible issue at purchase, the seller did fail to inform you before purchase the clock's had been changed (most scenic's have had there clock's changed due to issues with them) the seller did in fact give you the correct milage I assume there was some paperwork to prove this as the seller knew when you asked, you also confirmed the clock's change with the manufacture (I assume the dealership that did the change)

 

I think you would struggle to reject the car for the minor issues you have, altho you have every right to ask for these to be repaired if the car was described as good condition, everything also does depend on wording of the advert, age of the car, and purchase price

 

 

Below information found on which's website

 

Second-hand car from a dealer

 

When you buy a second-hand car from a dealer, you have the right, under both the Consumer Rights Act (which replaces the Sale of Goods Act from 01 October 2015), to expect the car to:

 

be of satisfactory quality (taking into account its age and mileage)

meet any description given to you when you were buying it ( whether in the advert or in discussions prior to sale)

be fit for the purpose (for example, to get you from A to B safely)

 

If the second-hand car does not meet these requirements, you have the right to claim against the dealer for breach of contract.

 

If something you buy is not 'as described', or if the seller is guilty of misrepresentation, you're entitled to:

 

give the second-hand car back and get your money back

if you want to keep the car, ask for compensation (usually the cost of any repairs it needs)

 

But if you buy a second-hand car that was not described as being in excellent condition or good working order and it breaks soon after you buy it, you don't have any right to reject it or to claim compensation.

[wah123]

Lawgistics is a legal club for motor traders.

 

You need to be definite in your intentions, have you made a final decision that you want to reject the car and there is no going back ??

 

Hi Conniff. Yes, I went on their website and know what they are now, which can be a good thing I think that this company has been involved. I did make my intentions clear in the letter I sent to them, I told them I am rejecting the car and want a refund. I understand that I can't go back. Thanks for your advice.

 

The milage description you refer to should be seen as visible issue at purchase, the seller did fail to inform you before purchase the clock's had been changed (most scenic's have had there clock's changed due to issues with them) the seller did in fact give you the correct milage I assume there was some paperwork to prove this as the seller knew when you asked, you also confirmed the clock's change with the manufacture (I assume the dealership that did the change)

 

I think you would struggle to reject the car for the minor issues you have, altho you have every right to ask for these to be repaired if the car was described as good condition, everything also does depend on wording of the advert, age of the car, and purchase price

 

 

Below information found on which's website

 

Second-hand car from a dealer

 

When you buy a second-hand car from a dealer, you have the right, under both the Consumer Rights Act (which replaces the Sale of Goods Act from 01 October 2015), to expect the car to:

 

be of satisfactory quality (taking into account its age and mileage)

meet any description given to you when you were buying it ( whether in the advert or in discussions prior to sale)

be fit for the purpose (for example, to get you from A to B safely)

 

If the second-hand car does not meet these requirements, you have the right to claim against the dealer for breach of contract.

 

If something you buy is not 'as described', or if the seller is guilty of misrepresentation, you're entitled to:

 

give the second-hand car back and get your money back

if you want to keep the car, ask for compensation (usually the cost of any repairs it needs)

 

But if you buy a second-hand car that was not described as being in excellent condition or good working order and it breaks soon after you buy it, you don't have any right to reject it or to claim compensation.

 

Hi liverpoolluke, I don't really have a problem with the fact that the odometer has been changed, as I understand that this can happen to any car and is perfectly legal to do this. The only problem I have is that I wasn't informed before buying the car which has put me off it, as I wouldn't have bought it if I had known this. I know I should have checked this but forgot to, like I did some other things.

 

Thanks for the information. I'm just waiting for the reply from them so I can make my next move.

Edited April 5, 2016 by stu007

[Conniff]

But if you buy a second-hand car that was not described as being in excellent condition or good working order and it breaks soon after you buy it, you don't have any right to reject it or to claim compensation.

 

I would challenge Which on their statement.

 

Which is a profit making commercial enterprise 'not' a consumer champion so don't believe everything they tell you.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Andyorch
edited

[king12345]

The questions you have to ask yourself are: How many miles has the car run?

Answer: 45000

Question: How many miles did the dealer told me the car had run?

Answer: 44000

Question: Did he lie?

Answer: Yes, by 1000 miles

Question: Does this affect the value of the car?

Answer: No

 

A odometer change, especially when performed by main dealer and documented doesn't mean that the car is not fit for purpose.

The dealer didn't misrepresent the car in his ad, he gave the correct mileage.

Think about this: If he had advertised at 21000 you would have paid more and maybe never found out.

He's been more honest than many other dealers out there.

Have you changed your mind about the car?

Because this odometer story is pretty trivial imo.