Car Tax Help

[tezza1234]

today I was hit by a motorcycle,

 

 

I was on a straight residential road and it flew out of a side road straight into the wing of my car,

thankfully I was doing less than 20mph and had stopped on impact

but bike was probably still moving at about 20mph,

 

 

rider landed approx. 8 feet to side of the car, rider was screaming his left side hurt,

I called ambulance and police, no witnesses to accident but after 2 people attended to help.

 

Now this is where it gets weird,

a friend of the bike rider turned up on foot and said to rider on floor

'quick we have to go as the police have been called'

the bike was damaged but working, albeit limping,

 

 

riders friend straddled injured rider on to bike and they made off,

 

 

some minutes later police and ambulance arrived,

I had taken some pictures so did have pic and reg of the bike,

police looked and could not find.

 

Police returned to take a statement from me,

said they suspected bike was probably stolen,

was showing as insured but not under name rider

gave me when I was on phone to ambulance people,

not reported as stolen yet.

 

I limp my damaged car home,

thankfully less than half a mile from scene,

phone insurance,

I only have third party fire and theft with breakdown cover added as extra,

 

 

my insurance said that because the bike was insured,

even though it may not have been the insured person riding it

I could pursue a non fault claim, so gave me details of bikes insurer.

 

I phone them, report it, give police reference number, reg, statement etc...

. and they said they are not sure what will happen as although bike is insured,

it may not have been that person riding it so they would need to investigate.

 

My questions,

I have a family car sitting outside too damaged to drive

and could potentially be waiting 3+ months for insurance to be sorted, if it gets sorted.

 

 

Id guess mine is a write off,

obviously I don't know that but id say so,

 

 

cars value is approx. £1000 and damage id say is double that,

 

 

so where do I stand, what can I do,

 

 

I have 2 children under 6 I need to take places,

can I add courtesy cover to my insurance

and use it after already reporting the accident,

even if it is no fault on my part, id highly doubt so.

 

 

Can I buy all the bits from a breakers yard and attempt a fix, light unit, bumper, wing, bonnet,

 

 

can I scrap mine,

id guess not.

 

what are my options,

surely its not reasonable to expect me to just sit about indefinitely with no transport.

 

Sorry for the ramble, am still angered n shook up by it.

 

I should add that when phoning 999 it took about 15 minutes for police to arrive

even though the station is less than half a mile from scene,

if they had ben 2 mins quicker they would not have gotten away.

 

 

The police even said to me that even if they spot the bike they can't follow it,

just incase the rides attempts to flee which could cause injury to himself or public.

 

Grrrr

[unclebulgaria67]

today I was hit by a motorcycle,

 

 

I was on a straight residential road and it flew out of a side road straight into the wing of my car,

thankfully I was doing less than 20mph and had stopped on impact

but bike was probably still moving at about 20mph,

 

 

rider landed approx. 8 feet to side of the car, rider was screaming his left side hurt,

I called ambulance and police, no witnesses to accident but after 2 people attended to help.

 

Now this is where it gets weird,

a friend of the bike rider turned up on foot and said to rider on floor

'quick we have to go as the police have been called'

the bike was damaged but working, albeit limping,

 

 

riders friend straddled injured rider on to bike and they made off,

 

 

some minutes later police and ambulance arrived,

I had taken some pictures so did have pic and reg of the bike,

police looked and could not find.

 

Police returned to take a statement from me,

said they suspected bike was probably stolen,

was showing as insured but not under name rider

gave me when I was on phone to ambulance people,

not reported as stolen yet.

 

I limp my damaged car home,

thankfully less than half a mile from scene,

phone insurance,

I only have third party fire and theft with breakdown cover added as extra,

 

 

my insurance said that because the bike was insured,

even though it may not have been the insured person riding it

I could pursue a non fault claim, so gave me details of bikes insurer.

 

I phone them, report it, give police reference number, reg, statement etc...

. and they said they are not sure what will happen as although bike is insured,

it may not have been that person riding it so they would need to investigate.

 

My questions,

I have a family car sitting outside too damaged to drive

and could potentially be waiting 3+ months for insurance to be sorted, if it gets sorted.

 

 

Id guess mine is a write off,

obviously I don't know that but id say so,

 

 

cars value is approx. £1000 and damage id say is double that,

 

 

so where do I stand, what can I do,

 

 

I have 2 children under 6 I need to take places,

can I add courtesy cover to my insurance

and use it after already reporting the accident,

even if it is no fault on my part, id highly doubt so.

 

 

Can I buy all the bits from a breakers yard and attempt a fix, light unit, bumper, wing, bonnet,

 

 

can I scrap mine,

id guess not.

 

what are my options,

surely its not reasonable to expect me to just sit about indefinitely with no transport.

 

Sorry for the ramble, am still angered n shook up by it.

 

I should add that when phoning 999 it took about 15 minutes for police to arrive

even though the station is less than half a mile from scene,

if they had ben 2 mins quicker they would not have gotten away.

 

 

The police even said to me that even if they spot the bike they can't follow it,

just incase the rides attempts to flee which could cause injury to himself or public.

 

Grrrr

 

Under Road Traffic Act third party Insurers still liable, even if their policyholder was not riding the bike. BUT i doubt they will easily agree to deal with your claim and it might take some time.

 

Unfortunately, you won't get a hire car provided, on the basis that it is not currently clear you will be easily able to claim back cost from third party insurers. Most hire cars are provided as part of an accident management claim against the third party, where you sign up to pay the hire car cost, if they are unsuccessful in claiming costs back.

 

The car is likely to be a write off given the value of car and repair cost. After the excess is deducted and the salvage value if you kept it, the amount of money left for you to pay for the repair might not be much. You could be waiting months to get the excess back from the third parties insurers.

 

Sorry i can't give you any positive solutions to your predicament. If the Police are still making enquiries, hopefully they will come back with more information. If the news helps you to take forward a claim with the third parties insurers, it would be a lot easier, as they may just pay you an agreed amount towards repairs and allow you to keep the car. With a claim against the third parties insurance, you would not have any excess to be deducted. Postive news from the Police might be that the rider was either the third party policyholder ir one of their friends riding it with their permission. If it was stolen, then it might not be as easy.

[unclebulgaria67]

Do check with your Insurers, if you paid for courtesy car or hire car cover on your policy. Also ask whether you have legal expenses cover to help you claim against the third party.

[tezza1234]

Do check with your Insurers, if you paid for courtesy car or hire car cover on your policy. Also ask whether you have legal expenses cover to help you claim against the third party.

 

Hi, thanks for your reply, I do not understand it all :/ the cover on my car is third party fire and theft with breakdown cover, no courtesy cover or legal expense cover, but my insurance have said I can claim direct from the bikes insurer as I was not at fault, my insurance have said that even if the bike was for instance stolen, the bike itself was insured, so I can claim against there insurance.

I don't understand what you mean with regards to the excess, If I am claiming from the bikes insurers, not my own, there will be no excess from my end to pay. On my own insurance the excess is £100 but id guess that only applies in terms of fire/theft.

 

 

I am really annoyed that this has happened and everyone agrees I am at no fault at all but I am the one now with no transport, a useless car sitting there that I am paying tax and insurance on that I can do nothing with, oh, as another side note, the MOT on my car is due about 28th march, id guess this insurance business will not be sorted by then so there do I stand with that, obviously the car can't and will not be driven and is parked on drive, am I liable for anything when the MOT runs out, again its not my fault I can't drive it to test centre due to damage.

 

 

So stressed right now.

[unclebulgaria67]

Hi, thanks for your reply, I do not understand it all :/ the cover on my car is third party fire and theft with breakdown cover, no courtesy cover or legal expense cover, but my insurance have said I can claim direct from the bikes insurer as I was not at fault, my insurance have said that even if the bike was for instance stolen, the bike itself was insured, so I can claim against there insurance.

I don't understand what you mean with regards to the excess, If I am claiming from the bikes insurers, not my own, there will be no excess from my end to pay. On my own insurance the excess is £100 but id guess that only applies in terms of fire/theft.

 

 

I am really annoyed that this has happened and everyone agrees I am at no fault at all but I am the one now with no transport, a useless car sitting there that I am paying tax and insurance on that I can do nothing with, oh, as another side note, the MOT on my car is due about 28th march, id guess this insurance business will not be sorted by then so there do I stand with that, obviously the car can't and will not be driven and is parked on drive, am I liable for anything when the MOT runs out, again its not my fault I can't drive it to test centre due to damage.

 

 

So stressed right now.

 

Assumption was you had comprehensive cover as that is most common.

 

So you will have to claim against third parties insurers, as that is the only option. The third parties insurers should be willing to take all your details about what happened and they will try to contact their policyholder. If you find out any more from the Police, do inform the third party insurers. You will need a little patience as this may not be resolved quickly. Prepare to be without a useable car for a few weeks, unless the third parties insurers agree to pay for a hire car.

 

I suspect the MOT will just expire as the repair will not be possible before the due date and whenever you are able to repair the car, you will have to get the MOT done at the time, so you can use it on the road. They won't do an MOT in the damaged condition, as presumably it would fail.

[dacouc]

Under Road Traffic Act third party Insurers still liable, even if their policyholder was not riding the bike. BUT i doubt they will easily agree to deal with your claim and it might take some time.

 

.

 

The Road Traffic Act only makes the third parties Insurers liable if the driver of the motorcycle was "identified" if the rider was unknown then the Insurer of the bike is not liable under the RTA, they may however be an "Article 75" Insurer.

 

Tezza, did you get a proper name for the rider of the bike and if so is it a real name eg not made up?

[tezza1234]

The Road Traffic Act only makes the third parties Insurers liable if the driver of the motorcycle was "identified" if the rider was unknown then the Insurer of the bike is not liable under the RTA, they may however be an "Article 75" Insurer.

 

Tezza, did you get a proper name for the rider of the bike and if so is it a real name eg not made up?

 

 

 

Hi, I did get a full name that the driver gave me when the ambulance operator asked, he was in a lot of pain screaming at this point and it was some minutes before his mystery mate appeared and dragged him off so I can only guess and hope he gave me a real name. The police did say that at the time the bike was not reported stolen and that the name given to me was not that of the policy holder, I guess if it had just been stolen they the owner wouldn't have known anyway.

 

 

I have today received a rather odd email which says its from axa private, which is the bikes insurer, I am with swiftcover, it says

 

 

Good afternoon Mr xxxxx,

I have reviewed your file and unfortunately your policy is third party fire and theft cover only, This means your policy only covers accidents caused by fire or theft and any damages caused to third parties in fault accidents,

This incident is not something that would be covered under your own insurance policy and so you will have to contact the third party insurer to peruse the repair works needed to your vehicle the third party insurer details are as follows:

Axa Private 0845 608 0230

Yours sincerely,

Mr xxxxx xxxxx

 

 

I say its weird because its telling me what I already know, I know my own cover with swiftcover will not cover it, but I have not made a claim with them, sure I have told them, as I have too, but I have already made a third party claim with the bikes insurer axa private.

[martin2006]

They are just confirming what you have been told/know in writing, thats all.

[dacouc]

Just to get it out in the open Axa own Swiftcover, this should not affect your claim as Insurers have set procedures for Blue on Blue accidents, they're handled by separate claims handlers who are tasked to ignore that it is an inter company claim. It may well help you as it may reduce the initial messing about.

 

So assuming the driver was "indentified" and is not unknown and / or gave a false name, the other Insurers are liable due to the Road Traffice Act, of the other driver was not "identified" then you would be dealing with an uninsured motorist and would need to run the mine field of claiming against the MIB.

 

Your own policy does not cover you as you're TPF&T, you either need to deal with the other Insurer (Axa) directly which is not that difficult, or employ the services of an Accident Management Company or if you have Legal Expense Cover on your own policy ask them to deal with it.

 

Initially, I would try contacting the other Insurer and remind them that due to the Road Traffic Act section 151 2) B that they're liable as the rider has been identified, ask them how they intend to settle your losses and that you don't receive a satisfactory answer you will use the services of an Accident Management Company and a Credit Hire Vehicle (If required). This should scare them into action

[tezza1234]

Just to get it out in the open Axa own Swiftcover, this should not affect your claim as Insurers have set procedures for Blue on Blue accidents, they're handled by separate claims handlers who are tasked to ignore that it is an inter company claim. It may well help you as it may reduce the initial messing about.

 

So assuming the driver was "indentified" and is not unknown and / or gave a false name, the other Insurers are liable due to the Road Traffice Act, of the other driver was not "identified" then you would be dealing with an uninsured motorist and would need to run the mine field of claiming against the MIB.

 

Your own policy does not cover you as you're TPF&T, you either need to deal with the other Insurer (Axa) directly which is not that difficult, or employ the services of an Accident Management Company or if you have Legal Expense Cover on your own policy ask them to deal with it.

 

Initially, I would try contacting the other Insurer and remind them that due to the Road Traffic Act section 151 2) B that they're liable as the rider has been identified, ask them how they intend to settle your losses and that you don't receive a satisfactory answer you will use the services of an Accident Management Company and a Credit Hire Vehicle (If required). This should scare them into action

 

I have already contacted the bikes insurance company axa and started a 3rd party claim, last I heard was 48 hours after reporting that they had not managed to contact the policy holder yet, despite leaving a voicemail on landline and mobile, txt, letter etc.... which I thought was odd on a month old 7k bike, I personally think the insured may have let a uninsured mate ride the bike, obviously not thinking he would stack it so is now panicking, but I could be way off, who knows.

Can I just ask, out of experience, if the insurance company write the car off and pay out, how much does it cost to buy back the car under a cat c or cat d or whatever it will be.

[dacouc]

It's fairly common under these circumstances for the Insurer to have difficulty contacting their customer as the policyholder tends to think it will go away if they ignore it.

 

You may need to step it up a gear to get the Insurers to handle your claim while they conduct their investigations.

 

Do you have Legal Expense Cover on your policy on your cover and if so what have they said?

 

It varies from Insurer to Insurer as they each have their own deals with national salvage companies regarding the values of salvage, but it's typically 25% to 35% of the pre accident market value

[tezza1234]

Ok so a slight update to this, I was on the phone to the bikes insurers today pestering and found out that they managed to get hold of the policy holder on Friday pm and he said to them that the bike had been stolen, just 1 problem with this, the incident happened on Wednesday before 10am and it took the insurance company more than 48 hours to get hold of him, and also, he had not, at any point reported the bike stolen to the police, when insurance questioned him on this they man on the phoned said 'he sounded panicked and hung up' and they have not been able to get hold of him since, so something defo dodgy going on here, they have promised me some more news on Wednesday coming, lets wait and see.

[dacouc]

Have you given the Insurers the details for police officer dealing with the case

[tezza1234]

Have you given the Insurers the details for police officer dealing with the case

 

Yes as far as I am aware and have been told the police are doing investigations and is the bikes insurance company and they are both in dialogue with each other via the incident reference number, I just have to sit and wait.

[unclebulgaria67]

Ok so a slight update to this, I was on the phone to the bikes insurers today pestering and found out that they managed to get hold of the policy holder on Friday pm and he said to them that the bike had been stolen, just 1 problem with this, the incident happened on Wednesday before 10am and it took the insurance company more than 48 hours to get hold of him, and also, he had not, at any point reported the bike stolen to the police, when insurance questioned him on this they man on the phoned said 'he sounded panicked and hung up' and they have not been able to get hold of him since, so something defo dodgy going on here, they have promised me some more news on Wednesday coming, lets wait and see.

 

The Police might spook him, if they say he needs to attend an identity parade, as there are witnesses

[tezza1234]

UPDATE

 

 

Now 8 days on from the accident, had a letter from police which states that due to a lack evidence no further action to be taken at this time with regards to the identity of the bike rider or manner of driving, basically they have not been able to identify who the rider was so can't be bothered any more. Sort of promoted the idea that when you have a crash, just drive off, its ok, the police don't care.

 

 

Bikes insurer are now saying that the policy holder is claiming to be out of the country so there investigations continue and until there is a resolution there is jack all I can do but wait, they will not provide a hire/courtesy car or anything. There policy holder is clearly 100% just giving them the run around, there must be a way I can obtain the contact details for there policy holder so I can do my own investigations.

 

 

So the police are not interested and bikes insurance and in go slow mode, and me, the victim essentially, left carless through no fault of my own, with 2 kids under 6, 1 of whom is disabled and well..... tough sh1t apparently, great.

[unclebulgaria67]

Was the bike reported as stolen ? Will the Police confirm that ?

 

If there is no report of it being stolen, then you could look to the Insurance company of the bike.

 

See this thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?457871-EU-Law-Rights-of-the-consumer-against-Insurance-Companies

 

Basically you have a possible course of action against the bikes Insurers.

[unclebulgaria67]

The MIB can be quite useful in talking to, as they might be able to suggest ways forward

 

https://www.mib.org.uk/

 

They deal with accidents involving uninsured vehicles, but if the third party insurers are not being helpful in your situation, they might suggest what your options are.

[tezza1234]

The police will not tell me anything, from what I can gather the bike was NOT ever reported as stolen, the guy just verbally told his insurance this on the phone, so they questioned him on it and he panicked and hung up.

[unclebulgaria67]

The police will not tell me anything, from what I can gather the bike was NOT ever reported as stolen, the guy just verbally told his insurance this on the phone, so they questioned him on it and he panicked and hung up.

 

They might eventually deal with you. Some Insurers in this situation will write to their policyholders saying unless they are contacted they will deal with the third party claim. But it could take a few weeks.

[tezza1234]

They might eventually deal with you. Some Insurers in this situation will write to their policyholders saying unless they are contacted they will deal with the third party claim. But it could take a few weeks.

 

 

 

Where do I currently stand with my current car, sitting on the drive unusable, do I need to keep it insured even though I can't drive it, or can I buy a run-around and transfer the insurance, I know tax would need to keep being paid.

[tezza1234]

Or, can I get my current one repaired myself, or am I not allowed to do that, I have had a look about and 2nd hand parts from breakers etc.... will cost around £200-£275, I can fit myself

[unclebulgaria67]

Or, can I get my current one repaired myself, or am I not allowed to do that, I have had a look about and 2nd hand parts from breakers etc.... will cost around £200-£275, I can fit myself

 

Nothing stopping you getting it repaired, but keep full details. Take pictures of the damage.

 

Insurance is compulsory now, if you have it taxed.

 

If you need to get an MOT, you can only use the car on the road, if you have a pre booked MOT appointment.

 

If the bike has not been reported stolen, then it is pretty obvious the bikes owner/policyholder knows about the accident. The bikes insurers are still responsible for dealing with your claim, but it is how long it takes them.

[tezza1234]

Nothing stopping you getting it repaired, but keep full details. Take pictures of the damage.

 

Insurance is compulsory now, if you have it taxed.

 

If you need to get an MOT, you can only use the car on the road, if you have a pre booked MOT appointment.

 

If the bike has not been reported stolen, then it is pretty obvious the bikes owner/policyholder knows about the accident. The bikes insurers are still responsible for dealing with your claim, but it is how long it takes them.

 

 

 

Hi, yes that is the problem, the bikes policyholder is clearly giving them the run a round and I don't expect a quick resolution from there end, Ok so I can't move the car to a friends driveway, cancel insurance and declare SORN, and if I do buy a cheap run a round for the time being ill have to pay 2 lots of insurance and tax etc.... is that right.

[unclebulgaria67]

Hi, yes that is the problem, the bikes policyholder is clearly giving them the run a round and I don't expect a quick resolution from there end, Ok so I can't move the car to a friends driveway, cancel insurance and declare SORN, and if I do buy a cheap run a round for the time being ill have to pay 2 lots of insurance and tax etc.... is that right.

 

Why can't you move your car, cancel insurance and declare SORN ? Is this because it does not have an MOT ? You could move it, but if the Police stop you, then you would get done for an offence. You could get it towed to your friends.

 

If you buy a cheap around to use, you could just do a change of car on current policy, rather than cancelling the policy. This is on the basis the damaged car is SORN and taken off the road, while it is repaired.