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    • I sent him the link for this forum yesterday but will tell him what you said. If he decides to post here I’ll be following it to help as much as I can.  Thanks for answering, it means a lot (after going from place to place discovering no one cares.)
    • It is the seller who should be bringing the action because they are the person who has lost the money. We can help them that you should contact them and tell them to come and register on this forum and assure them that everything is free and that we offer the best chance of getting their money back from Hermes – and not only that, it will be interesting and fun.
    • We don't know - all that Santander said was that a payment was made to a S/C and A/C number and they gave us that information - what they couldn't say was if a reference number i.e. the card number was entered to pay that said card. 
    • Hi -I bought a £500 bike on EBay from a private seller - listing stated “collection in person only” but after asking he agreed to post it - I bought a Hermes label using Parcel2Go, filled out all mine and seller’s details, and sent it to him. All he had to do was to stick it on the box and wait for courier to collect  - on the day of collection I received an email that “courier wasn’t able to collect the parcel” (seller assured me no one showed up for it as he’s been waiting) - same thing happened the next day. I knew Hermes tried to collect x3 and didn’t want to miss the third attempt so I asked the seller if he could drop in off and the nearest parcel drop off point.  He agreed and dropped it off. - Few days later the parcel arrived empty. It was half opened. I opened it in courier’s presence only to find bubble wrap and empty cardboard box. I asked him if there is a report we should fill out in situations like that. He said there wasn’t and that this is how he collected it from the local depot. He handed me blue card with a phone number to text ( texted 3 times heard nothing back) I took photos of the box (with courier in the background and said I don’t accept it because it’s been robbed) - I contacted the seller. He informed police about it so he could get cctv video from the parcel drop off point proving the box was heavy and needed two people to carry it.  -I informed police on my end hoping they could take a statement from the courier who delivered the box. They listened to my story but weren’t too bothered. They said I’ll get my money back if I paid with PayPal. - I got my money back. - police said I’m no longer at financial loss so to them the case is closed. - I want to fight with Hermes and P2G to get the £500 back from them so I can give it back to the seller. I’m convicted he sent the bike. He showed me the package before sending, we are in ongoing contact. He got the cctv footage etc. I feel horrible because it was me who chose the courier and it was me who asked him to post it, and now he has no bike and no money.  - I contacted P2G on live chat (since there’s no possible way to contact Hermes). They said to allow them 14 days for investigation. They were supposed to check cctv from depots and weighting points to see where the parcel went down from 15kg to nearly 1kg - after 14 days I contacted them again only to be told that Hermes hasn’t provided any information and now an automatic claim has been opened. - I provided all documents they asked for and now I’m waiting for the outcome but I already got email saying I can only count for £20 since I haven’t opted for extra protection. I haven’t paid for extra protection since stealing is illegal no matter for paying extra or not. I figured they won’t loose my parcel since it was a huge box and was ready to risk the damage. The point here is that they haven’t damaged it or lost it- It Has been delivered- Robbed.  - I’ve got all the chat scripts, emails between me and the seller, listing details, crime/ incident number/ photos of empty box delivered, photos of seller dropping it of, photos of the parcel before sending etc. I also have time and will to take them to court and open small claim. I think I might qualify for the cost relief too.  My main question here is - Do I, as a person who bought the servis and haven’t received the item can open the small claim against Hermes and/or P2G. Can I do it even though I’m no longer at “financial loss” (since PayPal refunded me). Do I need to tell them that at all?    I hate this whole situation and hate the fact that I can’t afford to give the seller his money back and be at loss too. It was a used bike, a gift for my daughter’s 10th birthday. I don’t want the time to ease my anger and forget about it because at the other end of this, there’s an honest guy who did everything he could send me that bike.    I know there are other posts that are almost the same as this one. Please can you just read through it and say what rights do I have to ask them for money back if I already got them from PayPal. 
    • I definitely have photos somewhere, but as yet, I’ve not recovered them.
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    • I sent in the bailiffs to the BBC. They collected £350. It made me smile.
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
      • 33 replies

Purchase of van - false claims on advertisement

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Hi all


I purchased a Hot and cold sandwich van on a well known auction site for £5000.



During the auction, before I made any bids, I asked the seller if the fridge and oven onboard the van had been serviced.



He replied to my message and said they has been serviced very recently and all new parts had been fitted.

I bid on the van and won.


I then travelled to London to pay for and collect the van.

The seller showed me the oven and fridge working and stated that the oven

operated at a temperature of 70 degrees to keep the food warm.

The oven reached this temperature, the fridge was nice and cold,



after checking everything else with the vehicle I was happy with it and paid the money.

On the way home the oven temperature dropped to 33 degrees and struggled to kick in again.



I rang a specialist who stated that the burner in the oven heater along with other parts were probably worn.

I explained the seller had told me of the service but he advised me to let him have a look.



When he stripped the heater it was apparent it had not been serviced for a long period of time

as it was seized into place.

The oven burner had a date stamp on which was 4 years old.


It cost me £580 to have the parts replaced and the oven reached a temperature of 90 degrees

very fast after this which is the mean operating temperature of the oven.


So in summary

I asked the seller if it had been serviced before committing to buy,

he said it had,

it obviously had not.



Do I have any comeback on this being a private sale

and the seller falsely claiming work had been done when it hadn't.


I have asked for the seller to provide me with details of where it was serviced but he has refused.



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Yes you do have a comeback – and the exchange of messages which have occurred and presumably of which you have copies, would be more than adequate evidence that you asked the appropriate questions and you received these satisfactory, but incorrect replies.


You would need a written report from the engineer who carried out the inspection and fitted the new parts. It will help if you have kept any of the old parts for further inspection.


On that basis you should write the seller a letter of complaint and layout what has happened and what you have done about it and what you are looking for.


Frankly I wouldn't get involved in a protracted discussion. I would move to sending an LBA and then issuing a claim very quickly. I wouldn't bluff. If you're not prepared to go ahead with a claim then don't bother to threaten it.


There are a few complications. You need to make sure that if you get a satisfactory judgement you can reach the defendant in order to enforce the judgement and that he has got an asset worth that amount.


Also, you say that he is a private seller. If this is really the case then when you sue him, the case will be heard in his local court and this means that you will be obliged to travel there for each hearing – and they could be a couple of them.


However, you say that he is a private seller – but this is clearly a commercial/business vehicle and so it seems to me highly likely that he has been using it in the course of business in which case selling on would be part of his business – even if he had stopped using it. In that case, the case would be heard in your local court on the basis that you are a private buyer.


On the other hand, because you are buying this vehicle – presumably to start your own business venture, you also are trading as a business in which case you are both acting commercially and in that event, the usual rules as to the locality of the court would apply: the case is eventually heard in the court which is local to the defendant.

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Thanks for your replies.



No, at the time of purchase I didn't ask for proof of the oven service, it seemed to be working fine along with all the other equipment so just took his word for it, seems rather daft now but at the time all seemed ok.



I have a full printed receipt for the repairs carried out and have spoken to the dealer who is fully willing to provide a written report on his findings If necessary. I have the parts in my possession which were removed and they have date stamps on them from the manufacturer showing they are 4 yrs old.



I have written a letter to the seller outlining the facts and that I demand he pays the £580 to me for the repair. He did actually text me back this morning and again confirmed he had the oven serviced at a dealership. I then replied saying he would need to deal with a claim against them if he is not happy it was carried out as he was the customer of the dealer. I was his customer and will be pursuing him for my loss.



I have given him 7 days to pay the amount to me and advised him should he fail to do so I will commence small claims proceedings immediately.



I was aware of the court allocation being in the defendants favour. Hopefully it will be sorted before it gets to this.




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Why would it count as betterment...He told me the heater unit had just been serviced which would have cost him £580. It hadn't been serviced and has cost me £580. How is this betterment? It is the cost of what I had already expected to have been done. It wasnt a complete new heater, it was parts and labour for a normal routine heater service

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Well it sounds very positive that he has responded and that he has responded so quickly.


It sounds to me as if this could be somebody that you could work with.


I would suggest that if you want to move this along in the best possible way, that you maybe speak with him and offered to help him through to claim against the company which apparently serviced the other.


If you want you can let them know about this thread and give him a link to it. If he comes on here, then we can maybe help both of you.


It's in his interest because otherwise he is likely to suffer a loss against you were as if you pool your energy, you might be able to get your money from the people who seem to be really responsible – and both you and your seller will walk away happy.


I think a cooperation like this might be better than conflict.


I think the you could quite reasonably ask him for copies of whatever documents were provided by the servicing company.

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Has anyone considered that this is a commercial vehicle and therefore normal consumer regs will not apply even though it's a private sale????

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The seller has now changed his tune and has become quite abrupt. He says he has spoken to his solicitor and would have expected me to give him time to rectify this repair. As I have gone ahead and had the repair done and now trying to claim the cost from him he is refusing to cooperate. He then says as a gesture, without predjudice, he is willing to refund the full cost of the vehicle if I return it to him.



This I obviously don't want to do as I have spent £580 on repairs to the oven, a further £100 on repairs he failed to list on the auction description and also £200 on sign writing.



Anyone know my options now? I wrote to him last Monday giving him 7 days to pay the sum of £580 otherwise I would commence county court action. All I have heard back is the message he sent me today with above comments.




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I would say your next course of action is to write to him and give him 7 days to pay or you will claim damages for breach of contract.

Edited by Conniff
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The seller was written to last week and given 7 days to pay the money. This has now expired. He has contacted me by text message which I have copies of firstly saying he has spoken to his solicitor and the only thing he was willing to do was refund the money for the vehicle on its return.



I asked him yesterday if I could do that at which point he changed his mind and said no. He has also said he is not willing to pay for the repair. As a last ditch attempt to resolve the issue I proposed he paid half the money of the repair(£285) and I would bear the other half. He said he would consider it and let me know. He hasn't let me know and although I can tell he has read my messages he has chosen to ignore them and not repond.



I am now issuing a court summons without delay for the full amount plus costs today.

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As you have previously given him a chance, then you must go ahead with it. Not carrying through a threat is what gives them confidence that they can do it again with the next customer.

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Although the seller stated last week he was willing for me to return the vehicle for a full refund, he soon changed his mind when I took him up on it.

I then asked for a copy of the proof he said he is in possession of from having the oven serviced which he point blank refused to provide.

I have now completed county court forms, paid the fee and awaiting service by the court.

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Hold on, reading through the posts, as the OP has now had it sign written is this not now a commercial vehicle so normal rules don't apply?


Which "normal rules"?


The Consumer Rights Act won't apply to a business to business sale, but the Sale of Goods Act (and standard Contract law ; that the OP should be put in the position, as far as possible, that they would have been had the contract been correctly fulfilled) still apply.


So if the contract was for a van with a serviced oven, and the oven hadn't been serviced, the fact the sale was business to business doesn't mean the OP has no remedy.


Other things that change with the OP being a business:

Less able to rely on the terms of the unfair contracts act.

If it comes to court, it will likely be heard in the (business) defendants local county court, not the OP's local county court (where if the OP was a consumer the default would be their local)


So, yes, there are changes if the OP is acting in course of business, but it means a different set of "normal rules" rather than "no remedy" or "normal rules don't apply".

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  • 2 months later...

quick update.

I issued county court proceedings. Defendant submitted his defence saying he had evidence of the oven being serviced however failed to provide proof of this when requested four times by myself.

He was then sent a directions questionnaire which he failed to return. A general sanctions order was then issued giving him a further period to return the DQ which he failed to do.

As a result his defence has been struck out and a county court judgement for the full amount plus costs issued.

Getting payment is the only obstacle now!

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