A Having problems getting ESA85 Statement from recent WCA

[fletch70]

TBH it matters not what sort persuasion your MP is, he is there to represent you. My MP who is a Tory and therefore would never get my vote intervened with me when the DWP had been continually overpaying me inspite me providing all the necessary details at the correct time. It turned out there was an overpayment of several hundred pounds which was written off because he intervened.

[tommy456]

Criminal isn't it, I hope you are keeping your MP informed and demanding they answer for their departments continued attack on the weakest poorest members of society?

Pointless, not only this but even getting to speak to him is not easy, and his side kick is a waste of time , and they seldom reply anyway,

I once after months of pestering him got him to ask a question in parliament regarding IB claimants being discriminated against by the government as they could not access the social fund for budgeting loans just prior to esa roll-out

The answer iirc wasn't really a proper answer but he did not push further

[fletch70]

A good constituency MP does many other things than just ask questions in Parliament and remember that mostly they are climbing the slippery pole so only ask questions that are either 'plants' or will get them recognised.

 

Protocol also demands that to get contact from a minister you go through your MP who then contacts the department etc . I believe that emails sent directly to a minister who is not your MP get ignored

[tommy456]

But the local MP's lack of bring bothered to reply includes some things that are down to the local council like their cuts to CAB ect. the local lib dum MP is a waste of time wasn't always as bad as they are now

[tommy456]

Got the tick box MR result , the error in the number of points doesn't even appear to of been looked at just glossed over so untouched saying that whilst the previous decision maker recognised the problem, they cannot award more points on the evidence they have( yet they accepted that evidence, but awarded the incorrect amount of points)

 

And they are unbelievable Regarding the mobilising descriptor where i told them i cannot use walking aids due to a weak wrist , they seem to of missed out my lower back ,??

 

They didn't accept this basically because i did not indicate problems with picking up things and moving them and using my hands in my form,

 

Did they mean the empty cardboard box, pick up a pound coin descriptor? If so that is because my hands wrist aren't so weak a can't use them for anything

But that doesn't mean that when given a realistic test such as supporting my bodyweight or propelling it i would not have problems, that's even with this imaginary non existent wheel chair that they assess people as using

My wrist is weak due to an old injury ,and has always been problematic if put under stress , this isnt due to weakness in the muscle but the actual bones in my wrist joint ,

 

The wrist problem was not mentioned in part because i didn't see it as relevant as i wouldn't satisfy the descriptors,

 

The same for the sitting descriptor, If i had to use a manual wheelchair this would cause issues with my back but these fools aren't realists they live in a fantasy world

 

Activity 4: Picking up and moving or transferring by the use of the upper body and arms

Descriptor:

(a) Cannot pick up and move a 0.5 litre carton full of liquid.

15 Points

(b) Cannot pick up and move a one litre carton full of liquid

9 Points

© Cannot transfer a light but bulky object such as an empty cardboard box.

6 Points

(d) None of the above apply

0 points

 

 

 

ctivity 5: Manual dexterity

Descriptor:

(a) Cannot either:

(i) press a button, such as a telephone keypad; or (ii) turn the pages of a book

with either hand.

15 Points

(b) Cannot pick up a £1 coin or equivalent with either hand.

15 Points

© Cannot use a pen or pencil to make a meaningful mark.

9 Points

(d) Cannot use a suitable keyboard or mouse.

9 Points

(e) None of the above apply.

0 Points

[reallymadwoman]

Unfortunately, it seems standard that even where there is an obvious discrepancy, DWP decision makers will not contradict what is in the report. Tribunal panels however are much more likely to use a discrepancy to discredit the whole report as unreliable, so even if it didn't help your MR, it will help at tribunal.

[tommy456]

The WCA report result of Zero points was amended following a telephone conversation with some one from the DWP presumably a decision maker, but it was the decision maker who after asking me some questions regarding my conditions accepted what i told them regarding one of my conditions and then for some reason decided not to award the correct amount of points ,

On the mobilising i was told that unless i suffered with a breathing or heart problem that they assess everyone as using a manual wheelchair , (the imaginary wheelchair ) more like a way to deny those with mobility problems benefits

[reallymadwoman]

On the mobilising i was told that unless i suffered with a breathing or heart problem that they assess everyone as using a manual wheelchair , (the imaginary wheelchair ) more like a way to deny those with mobility problems benefits

 

Again, totally contradicting what the regulations and guidelines actually say, so something else that will go in your favour at tribunal. It may be annoying to say the least that DWP can't/won't apply the regulations and guidance properly, but every mistake they and the HCP have made only makes it more likely that the tribunal will overturn the decision.

[tommy456]

Whilst i agree with what you say in principle, Most of if not all of any faith i had in the tribunals service has all but gone from past personal experience's it seems that they too lack common sense, and a genuine unbiased independence

 

From the panel member who though it would be good to spy on me after the hearing and use this to influence their result (error in law) to another who called me a liar It seems that they will hire any one these days

[tommy456]

My Cab adviser wasn't that surprised by the MR not changing the decision, but had seen better explanations for not doing that, clutching at straws ,with the problems with hand not previously reported ,alluding to the activity 4 and or 5 which aren't in dispute , Common sense doesn't exist it seems

[tommy456]

Found this interesting PDF https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/419100/adm10-15.pdf

Regarding JSA claim and the EPS ,

 

After reading the info in that file the way i interpreted it is that if you decide to start the EPS by handing in a fit note from your GP or other HCP you are treated not fit for work , and the conditionality of any claimant commitment is suspended until the EPS end's ,

 

so it's deemed unreasonable for a jsa claimant to search for work,and or apply for jobs, during this time, was what i thought , there's no mention of being excused of signing on though during the EPS

 

But it is certainly different to what my work coach was telling me, seems the DWP has become more and more corrupt over the past decade, it's so bad that they don't even work within their rules , and the amount of miss-information given out is unbelievable Hopefully the pdf will be of use to others to confirm the situation regarding EPS

[TW25]

Currently on EPS and i sign on as normal. My advisor changed my agreement so only looking in the local paper at present.

[tommy456]

So for those with mobility issues EPS is pointless, as the travelling to and from the JCP is often the most problematic part of claiming JSA whilst waiting for the MR

 

But if you are treated or supposed to be treated as unfit for work whilst on EPS then signing on should be deemed unreasonable, as would be job search if it involved leaving your home,

It seems this abuse of their rules is widespread

 

Seems the use this which isn't that clear "Tailored Conditionality" And since when do GP's put on fit notes what their patient can't do?

 

 

They seems to want to both ways , when in reality that won't work, of someone has a Fit note, And are going to be treated as unfit for work whilst on EPS , if those health conditions on the MED3 list something like a featured leg or foot, then are they not by definition unfit to attend JC to sign on? Why do a lot of DWP rules and reg's contradict each other,

 

If they presumably work coaches in the JC have some discretion where they can basically pause all conditionality even signing why don't they do that ? are they really that spiteful?

 

Tailored Conditionality

If the claimant elects to remain on JSA they will be treated as being available

for work during an EPS. However, the claimant can be required to look for

work or undertake an activity designed to improve their job prospects or keep

them in touch with the labour market.

 

In deciding whether the claimant should undertake any activity, the following

will need to be taken into account:

 the claimant’s health condition

 what their Fit Note states that they can or cannot do

 likely duration of sickness period

 their personal circumstances

 current provision

 

It will then be decided whether to:

 remove remaining conditionality requirements completely for the

duration of the sickness period

 remove remaining conditionality requirements completely for part of the

sickness period

 

 require the claimant to undertake some form of work search or work

related activity which will be specifically tailored to their personal

circumstances for all or part of the sickness period

Tailored conditionality means replacing the conditionality requirements agreed

in their Claimant Commitment with a new set of temporary requirements

which take into account the change in the claimant’s health condition and

which are reasonable in light of their current personal circumstances. This

does not require a new Claimant Commitment. The original Claimant

Commitment must not be amended. Record tailored conditionality

arrangements on LMS Conversations along with the EPS period.

If the claimant is required to undertake any form of activity:

 consider how and when such requirements will be reviewed taking into

account that there may no longer be a requirement for the claimant to

attend the office for an interview and that other methods and frequency

of contact may need to be agreed

 agree tailored conditionality with the claimant and record in LMS

conversations

 note LMS notepad with the period of sickness and that the contracted

provider has been notified

 decide how often to keep in touch with claimant, this is at the

Jobcentres discretion but should be around once a fortnight and can be

via phone or face to face

 follow up claimant as agreed and check on their recovery seven days

before medical evidence is due to expire

Note: Notify the WP Provider or contracted provider the start and finish dates

of the medical evidence and whether ‘limited conditionality’ or ‘no

conditionality’ has been agreed. Any further change, such as changes to

conditionality or further medical evidence provided must be notified via

WP07b/equivalent change of circumstances form, including start and end date

of new conditionality. If a claimant is on WP, please refer to paragraph 28

(Tailored Conditionality).

Example: Mark has a ten week Fit Note. It is decided that it would not be

reasonable for him to undertake any work search activity at all for the first two

weeks of his period of sickness, and the conditionality requirements are

removed. However, after this time, it is decided that it would be reasonable

for Mark to look for work by using the internet and his conditionality

requirements are tailored to this for the remainder of his sickness period.

Throughout the remainder of his sickness period, the Jobcentre will keep in

touch regularly, for example every two week, and this can be face to face or

via telephone. This is reviewed when Mark attends the office for his usual

work search review once he is fully fit for work.

If the claimant does not meet the tailored conditionality requirements, a

referral to the Labour Market Decision Maker (LMDM) would be appropriate

as per current procedures. A copy of the revised conditionality requirements

as well as the Claimant Commitment must be included as part of the referral.

A claimant may be notified of a suitable vacancy during an extended period of

sickness. If the claimant refuse or fails to apply, an RE referral to the LMDM

should be made. Before notifying the claimant of the vacancy or raising a

sanction doubt, it must considered whether it was reasonable for them to

apply.

 

Example: Jo has a six week Fit Note. In the first week of her period of

sickness, a suitable vacancy arises. The interviews will be held two weeks

later with the successful candidate expected to start work two weeks after

that. It is decided that it would not be reasonable for Jo to apply for this

vacancy as all of the application activity will take place in the period covered

by her Fit Note.

Example: Clive has a six week Fit Note. In the fourth week of his period of

sickness a suitable vacancy arises. The vacancy calls for applications to be

made by telephone within a week. Interviews will be held two weeks later. It is

decided that it would be reasonable for Clive to apply for this vacancy as he is

able to make the telephone call and if successful, start work after the

expiration of his Fit Note.

For WP Claimants and other mandatory contracted provision, details of the

start and finish dates of the medical evidence will be given, and whether it is

considered that the claimant can be asked to take some steps to prepare to

return to work or whether they should have no conditionality applied to them.

It will be recorded either ‘limited conditionality’ or ‘no conditionality’ in LMS

conversations and this information will be sent on the WP07b to the WPP or

equivalent change of circumstances form for other providers in order to tailor

the Action Plan during the EPS. Care should be taken to make sure that

Jobcentre only share relevant and justifiable information to meet the business

needs, it must not include any medical information. A contracted provider

needs to know whether the claimant has limited conditionality or no

conditionality agreed during any period of EPS. The provider can then work

with the claimant and require them to look for work or undertake an activity

designed to improve their job prospects or keep them in touch with the labour

market where appropriate. Their level of capability is likely to change over the

period of sickness and the provider should be kept informed via the

WP07b/change of circumstance process to ensure tasks are reviewed and set

appropriately throughout the period of sickness.

Note: Where a claimant has been mandated to attend/participate, and there is

an overlapping period of sickness, care should be taken to review the

mandation letter issued. Where any tailoring of conditionality affects

mandation a new letter should be issued to the claimant to confirm the

change.

Labour Market System ‘conversations’ will need to updated with details of any

tailored conditionality. Agree with the claimant how often the tailored

conditionality will be measured, whether this will be further face to face or

telephone interventions.

Claimant decides to end their claim to JSA

If the claimant decides to end their claim to JSA and claim ESA instead, they

should make a claim to ESA as soon as possible. They should be provided

with the details of any period of JSA EPS if appropriate, for example the start

and end dates. They should be further advised to inform the ESA first contact

agent of these dates when they call to make their claim to ESA. LMS

conversations should be updated with the details of this information.

Complete HOTT handover to ESA new claims processing including a note

which states the start and end date of EPS, that claimant intends to claim

ESA.

 

Any fit notes will also need to be scanned and attached to the handover.

Original fit notes will need to be sent to ESA New Claims.

For claimants on Work Programme send a WP07b to the provider advising

that the claimant is making a claim to ESA.

Note: All medical evidence needs to be checked to ensure doctors

signature and date of issue, medical condition and period of sickness. The

medical evidence must not have been tampered with.

Completing the Intervention

To complete the Intervention:

1. Explain automatic payments and the claimant is not required to attend

any work search reviews, but that they will need to attend them again

when the sickness period ends.

2. Book a further flexible intervention and create a workflow for a week

before the fit note expires to act as a reminder.

This flexible intervention will be used to inform the claimant about their

conditionality.

3. Confirm their next work search review appointment time.

4. Issue the EPS fact sheet to the claimant before they leave the interview

(or post out if the intervention is by phone).

5. Issue a JA6000 clerical letter, posting out if necessary.

Note: This will only be in the short term until the JSAPS solution is

implemented, expected 28 September 2015.

6. Ensure they have a JSA28 and post one out if required.

Note: A JSA28 is only required for the first period of sickness reported. If the

sickness period extends then medical evidence only will be required. They will

also ensure medical evidence has been provided if necessary, and in both

cases they will request that it is posted to the Jobcentre ASAP as payment

won’t be released until it’s been received and processed.

Details of the fit note will be sent to BC via HOTT using the following:

 Handover Priority: 3hour non call back

 Handover Type: Sickness

 Handover Reason: JSA EPS

A covering note advising of EPS should also be provided, and JSAPs noted

with EPS start date.

If a JSA28/medical evidence is expected to be returned then a workflow must

be set for 5 working days to check receipt and take further action if not.

Actions will need to be taken around JSA Mandatory and other provisions, for

example notifying providers by completing WP07b.

Note: All medical evidence needs to be checked to ensure doctors signature

and date of issue, medical condition and period of sickness. The medical

evidence must not have been tampered with.

Failure to return JSA28/Fit Note

Once the workflow matures:

1. Check to establish if the JSA28 or fit note have been returned.

2. If they haven’t the claimant should be contacted to remind them of the

importance of returning them.

3. Arrange for the details to be sent by HOTT once received.

 

4. If no contact can be made, a face to face Mandatory work intervention

should be booked to establish why the information hasn’t been

provided. If claimants are not able to provide medical evidence they

must attend all appointments and undertake all actions agreed in their

Claimant Commitment.

There is discretion to allow a gap in medical evidence of up to 7 calendar

days. A longer gap can be accepted if the claimant can demonstrate that they

had a good reason for the gap.

Claimant reports sickness has ended

If the claimant reports they are no longer sick:

1. Advise the claimant they must now attend all appointments and

undertake all actions agreed in their Claimant Commitment.

2. If the claimant is on Work Programme/contracted provision notify the

provider of the date they can expect the claimant to resume normal

activities by recording/issuing WP07b or equivalent.

Claimant reports further sickness period

If the claimant reports a further or continuing periods of sickness, check

whether the 13 weeks EPS has been/will be exhausted.

EPS exhausted

If claimant wishes to claim ESA, advise to call the first contact telephone

number 0800 055 6688 and close their JSA claim by calling the JSA BEL

number 0345 608 8545.

Note: Jobcentre will terminate the claim if the claimant is unable to use the

phoneIn addition the following action will need to be taken:

1. Update LMS conversations & JSAPs with total period of EPS.

2. Complete HOTT handover to ESA new claims processing including a

note which states the start and end date of EPS, that claimant intends

to claim ESA, any fit notes will also need to be scanned and attached

to the handover.

3. Original fit notes need to be sent to ESA New Claims.

4. If claimant is on Work Programme/contracted provision, record and

issue a WP07b or equivalent to the provider advising that the claimant

is making a claim to ESA.

EPS not exhausted

Take action as listed above in Extended Period of Sickness (EPS)

Intervention.

[TW25]

Seems like we need to no the rules and point things out to them. When i pulled my advisor up on stuff you get the blah blah blah i aint trained for that but the DEA is. Booked in to see the DEA and to say she is hopeless is a understatement. I no there is not a hope in hell ill hold down 16hrs a week work as with that you have travel time etc. On numerous pain meds that seem to help when they want. With pain as you no comes other stuff like mental well being. I no im on the edge and thankful i have my dogs to keep me going but at times its so flipping hard. Used to do a physical job and since having to pack it in ive put on nearly 5 stone. Binge eating drinking lack of motivation to do my streches/exercise that the pain clinics advise. I'm resigned to playing the game and being on JSA but knowing im not fit for work. I will if need be rock up to interviews with back belt on. Wrist supports and full of meds so will be drowsy.

System is a joke and its only when your in it you realise how bad it is. My neighbour gets disability yet she can go out on the bus 4-5 days a week. So bad she gets chemist to deliver to her. She is currently working on her garden with her brother who also claims to have severe fits yet i see him out daily with 2 big boxer dogs. Sometimes it just seems so upside down and the honest dont get what they are entitled to.

Hope you have the strengh to fight for what you deserve.

[tommy456]

First time i have heard of this happening without claimants having to initiate the process , I only found out Wednesday that my JSA claim had been closed from the beginning of the month after phoning them to check to see if they had the notification from HMCTS and was on their systems, so i could close the JSA claim and then restart my ESA until the tribunal hearing ,

 

i took my fit note in to the job centre and got them to scan/email it to ESA?

i can be paid next week,

 

there maybe no break in payment again, which is good,

( ESA>>JSA no break in payment only a delay due to a different pay day) but if the reverse JSA>>ESA goes smoothly I'll get my next payment early or back how it would of been if they removed the useless MR process ,

 

nice to see them getting their act together, though I'm not sure what triggered the cease of JSA , unless the work coach at the jc had something to do with it as she knew that i intended to re start claiming esa asap

 

I can recall the last time i had to claim JSA what a nightmare that was iirc some 4weeks without a payment , had to declare no income to the council as well , and had my landlord on my case because they had stopped rent payment ,

[tommy456]

Just had the paperwork bundle from the DWP for my pending ESA tribunal hearing , And even though the WCA was audio recorded there are a few errors that are to their favour , surprise ,surprise, not ,

 

like the length of time that the assessor claims to have observed my sitting without being in any discomfort , (is actually some 10 mins longer than the audio recording) and is also contradictory as he can been heard to ask me to lie on the bed before the end of the recording , the times given for The start of the examination and end of it are seriously wrong

 

Start 13.40 end 15:18 and report completed 15:50 ? the WCA audio recording is no more than 40mins start to Finnish,? yet they appear to claim that the wca duration was 1hr 38mins ?

 

Whilst there was around an hr's wait before the WCA that isn't part of it ???

 

They also make other errors like saying that i can manage stairs even though i re arranged the venue for the wca to one on ground floor level and had already told them in the ESA50 that steps/stairs cause me a lot of pain , descending stairs more so , there is of course also a greater risk of falls, but their criteria isn't bothered about reality

Looks like Maximus are worse than Atos

 

For those who may not know the circumstances of my case ,

 

I have been claiming JSA for the past 2.5 months or there about,

 

Due partly to the DWP loosing my first MR written request ,

this is after also during a phone conversation with the DWP regarding my recent WCA

where i told them that i would be appealing their decision

(so notice to carry out MR)

yet they where denying all knowledge of this,

 

a copy of the original MR letter sent 24/05/16 , and received ,

MR completed on 01/06/16 decision unchanged , appeal ssc1 form sent mid June ,

 

Last signing 1/7/16 paid as normal on the 6/7/16 received dwp letter

and p45 saying that they could no longer pay JSA from 2/7/16 as i had made a claim for another benefit ,

 

I rang the DWP to ask what that letter was about on the 7th July iirc (letter dated 4/7/16 )

 

I was told that there had been a claim for esa ,

and all they needed was a valid fit note( which i had)

and it would be better and quicker if i handed it in at my local JC, which i did, on 8/7/16

And had heard nothing more since and no payments either,

 

Last week i was told misinformation , today i found out that my claim for esa has not been processed,

still, and they claim to only of received my Fit note on the 16/7/16

 

They appear to of messed up on a massive scale 8 days for a scanned/email of my fit note

to go from my JC to the esa claims dept?

 

they will also owe me bank charges as well,

( i only wish i could claim back the cost of the phone call's due to the mis information given and unreasonable time on hold)

 

2 dd have been paid and i have continued to buy food as normal ,

There is no way that i am going without food for this shower of clowns

 

They should remove the waste of everyone's time MR process that tick box copy & paste

mostly generic process designed to deter as many from appealing and cause financial /physical hardship

and with a rate of only 11% of cases having the WCA decision overturned need i say more

[reallymadwoman]

All you can do is go through the complaints process, right up to the Independent Case Examiner if necessary. It may ultimately achieve nothing more than £50 on top of your bank charges, but there is an outside chance that things may improve for the next person.

[reallymadwoman]

I'd be celebrating as DWP/Maximus have just dug themselves into a hole. Start going through their evidence and list everything that is 'inaccurate' and identify your proof e.g. 'transcript line 33'. Enough factual errors in the evidence means that the tribunal really has no choice but to disregard it as unreliable, since if they don't without very, very good reasons it's a strong candidate for a further appeal on grounds of error of law.

 

When organising your evidence, which would include the list of inaccuracies, I've read advice that you should focus on the most crucial errors and inconsistencies rather than pick up every single point. I would prefer to mention every single error, but organise it so that the most important are at the front of the list. For example, the report for my PIP claim omitted any mention of 5 pieces of evidence, 6 medical conditions and 2 consultants on the first page, all of which are such crucual factual errors that a tribunal probably wouldn't even have to consider anything else in order to chuck the whole thing in the bin. However, tribunals have been known to make errors of law, so I would still list every single other error, no matter how trivial, but leave the really trivial stuff (spelling your admittedly complicated name wrong) to the end.

[tommy456]

I fully intend on doing just that , i will be listening intently to the audio recording and comparing with their paper work ,to see what else is wrong ,

 

A week after when i should of been paid and still no clue as to when i'll get paid, good job my esa appeal isn't for another month or that would have to be postponed as i have no money

 

Well despite them triggering the closing of the JSA claim once they received the notice from the tribunals service,(without my knowledge) this was on the 30th June nearly 1 mth ago, and then having taken possession of the fit note since 6-7th July

 

so everything needed to re open the esa claim , they still haven't done this i haven't had a payment since 6th July

 

They have failed on so many levels, just how do they keep getting it so wrong ?

[Bazooka Boo]

Ensure you also send your complaint to your local MP, demand they raise the matter in the commons of the corruption within this department, and the continued persecution of the sick and disabled in our society.

[tommy456]

After re reading and further scrutiny of the bundle there appears to be inconsistencies between what the nurse who did the WCA has stated in his report and what the decision maker has stated in their decision notice and is it the LT54? unbelievable, but hopefully can be used against them, here is a sinpet

 

WCA report, says that i stated that i don't do my own shopping due to my mobility problems , so friends do this for me, they usually do their shopping online,

Decision maker report

Says that i am able to do my own shopping alone but doesn't due to mobility restrictions

 

Talk about contradictory, and inconsistent ,yet i bet some tribunal panel members would not question or doubt their evidence, whilst i know that some of these things are only small on their own, but there is too many imo, the main question is this would any of these problems i have found so far be likely to affect the tribunals decision or not, ?

 

if the answer is no then it won't make much of a difference to how they interpret it, were as if there was something that would adversely affect their decision , and they chose to accept it as reliable and used it to base their reasoning on, then there could be a case for error of law or fact,, though that doesn't get me a win in it's self as would result in a set aside and re heard by different panel members

 

Well there is some information omitted in the HCP's report and some incorrect info (in the report it claims that someone does shopping for me or will do it online, but then says

"he states that he can manage shopping alone,does not do shopping as he cannot get around"

that doesn't even make sense and it is contradicts its self???? it should read that , he states that someone does his shopping for him they either will go to the supermarkets or they do it online with their shopping as my audio recording confirms , the wording is modified again by the decision maker it's just one inconstant mess imo

[bailio]

Can I ask, with all due respect, why you are so angry and so desperate to prove you can't work and want free money forever?

 

(Sorry if that sounds a bit harsh, but you sound so intelligent and willing to fight for what you believe in, I don't understand why these skills can't be used to make money to improve the system, rather than fighting to always be a drain on it?)

[tommy456]

Probably because i couldn't reliably do a full time job 5-6 days a week , it would be only a matter of time before i would loose the job due to being off sick due to my health conditions which i believe satisfy the criteria for esa , it's the fact that they system has in the past cheated me out of it, Being on JSA these days isn't a viable option either, due to their targets for sanctions (that they claim not to have)

 

As for me making money to improve the system, I'm not sure i understand what you mean by that?

But as for helping people in a similar situation to my self i don't have a problem with giving them the benefit on my limited experience and knowledge of the ever changing benefits system , but for being able to do this in a formal capacity i think i would have to learn a lot more ,

[reallymadwoman]

Can I ask, with all due respect, why you are so angry and so desperate to prove you can't work and want free money forever?

 

(Sorry if that sounds a bit harsh, but you sound so intelligent and willing to fight for what you believe in, I don't understand why these skills can't be used to make money to improve the system, rather than fighting to always be a drain on it?)

 

No doubt I also sound intelligent and willing to fight, but like many disabled people, if I could work for even a couple of hours a day, no one in their right mind would actually employ me.

 

I also strongly object to the implication that anyone claiming sickness benefits is a drain on the system, how do you know that tommy hasn't contributed taxes and national insurance for 40 years before having to claim something he should be entitled to?

 

I worked in public service for a very long time before being so seriously injured at work that I could not continue but still I am made to feel like a scrounger by the press and a good proportion of the public because I can no longer contribute.

 

The only people losing out under this system of stringent tests and sanctions unfairly applied are the genuine claimants - those that have been fiddling the system for years will carry on doing so regardless.

[Bazooka Boo]

Can I ask, with all due respect, why you are so angry and so desperate to prove you can't work and want free money forever?

 

(Sorry if that sounds a bit harsh, but you sound so intelligent and willing to fight for what you believe in, I don't understand why these skills can't be used to make money to improve the system, rather than fighting to always be a drain on it?)

 

Your first post and you come up with that!

 

It isn't ''free'' money, it's money that we have paid into the system when we were able to work so that if we were unfortunate to be unable to work in the future, then it would stop us from going under, it's called 'social security', there is NO benefits.