A Having problems getting ESA85 Statement from recent WCA

[jason2723637]

you don't have to wait 6 months to get paid since your last WCA decision before reclaiming?

 

NB - also you can go on EPS if you feel you exhausted ESA process rem it for 13 weeks then if your still unfit for work you should be redirected back to ESA

 

"If i decide to claim JSA i am going to use their rules guidance against them as much as i possibly can , that will mean doing nothing that isn't mandatory,

 

no giving them my E-mail login ,

not using the job search web site to apply /seek work,

not accepting the default 90mins travel time from home,

 

in the Job seekers agreement ,

demanding that the work search be restricted and not using their electronic signature devices"

 

one thing tho don't bite the hand that feeds you (I say in a somewhat sarcastic tone)

[tommy456]

so you don't have to wait 6 months to get paid since your last WCA decision before reclaiming?

 

NB - also you can go on EPS if you feel you exhausted ESA process rem it for 13 weeks then if your still unfit for work you should be redirected back to ESA

They changed the rules last year

 

So that you cannot re claim esa for the same conditions unless there has been a worsening of those conditions or you have new conditions , under the old system, by the time most had gone to tribunal and where unsuccessful they were able to re claim for the same conditions again without a break in esa payments ,

IDS didn't like that idea So he moved the goal posts ,Firstly by changing the wording of several of the descriptors and removing some used in the WCA, For the sole purpose of increasing the numbers they could find fit for work, and then by introducing the MR process and also stopping payment of esa until MR was processed in a bid to force the masses onto JSA , knowing full well that many would be sanctioned within the first few months whilst waiting for the MR result

 

They IMO have gone to devious lengths at the expense of the sick &disabled in order to save err,well nothing significant , just cause unnecessary hardship ect to some of the weakest in society

they disgust me

 

@ jason2723637 My reply to your second part

NB - also you can go on EPS if you feel you exhausted ESA process rem it for 13 weeks then if your still unfit for work you should be redirected back to ESA

 

Most go for the MR then if they don't change their minds to tribunal , Though i doubt there would anything technically stopping someone making a new claim in that way for a new or worsening condition , though it would probably result in the same outcome, Maximus are no different to Atos in the way they carry out the WCA

[jason2723637]

"They IMO have gone to devious lengths at the expense of the sick &disabled in order to save err,well nothing significant , just cause unnecessary hardship ect to some of the weakest in society

they disgust me"

 

yup.....

 

also when you claimed for the worsening condition was it straight forward actually reclaiming as in did you call them up on the normal ESA claim number and if so did they ask if this was your first time claiming ESA or not or was you directed to the customer services number first to discuss the worsening condition just wondering

[tommy456]

iirc, i rang them on their normal number for esa, then sent a fit note as i was reporting a new condition they dealt with it in that way no extra hoops

 

Just received the decision makers report ESA 65& Maximus ESA 85 and there are some totally incorrect assumptions like Apparently i choose not to do something that involves walking around, like shopping ect,

 

And although i suffer incontinence once a month i'm only really at risk of that if i don't find a toilet quickly enough ,

 

i also sat for some 49mins at the wca apparently when the recording is only 39mins in total (can be heard ) and i was asked to stand up a short time before this ,

 

Maximus are just as bad if not worse, The format in the report has changed somewhat and is imo more confusing as they no longer show the descriptors as they used to do,

[jason2723637]

they should put OTE (on target earnings) for ppl who work at maximus

[tommy456]

They probably get a bonus if they meet the government targets, on getting a majority through the WCA process within the 13week time frame,And possibly another based on the number they find fit for work

 

After a scrutinising the reports a bit more , It seems to be somewhat contradictory in some areas ,and i should of been awarded more points than i have been, as they can't accept evidence that would qualify someone points and then not give them , which is what appears to of happened ,

 

The CAB case worker has said although on paper i qualify for the support group in reality thinks i should qualify for the WRAG group,and have a fair chance at the MR stage of getting that,

[jason2723637]

rem it can take some attempts before getting g on actual ESA support or wrag so good luck (and best to have supporting evidence)

[tommy456]

Yeah it may save having to have to go through the tribunal process yet again, and due to the cuts in funding there isn't likely going to be any representation by a CAB worker, Though they will still be able to provide a written representation

[jason2723637]

one thing am I right that since March 2015 if you fail your appeal or WCA you can reapply for ESA without waiting for six months now? ie for a new or worsening condition

[tommy456]

Yes As i have done exactly this ,I wonder how long before they attempt to change it?

 

The older rules , you didn't have to wait 6 mths if you had a new condition , Further back still in the days of( IB ) incapacity benefit your rate would increase after iirc 6 months even if you had not had the F2F by then (no pre assessment rates then) the F2F dodgy medical wasn't (descriptors and criteria) wasn't as harsh back then either So most had a fair chance of getting 2yrs on IB Without having to appeal, If you returned to work prior to a determination you could reclaim (continue that claim) at any point if within 12mths

 

So if you say had got awarded 2yrs off work at the F2F and any time before your next F2F you decided to try going back to work, and after a few days ,weeks or months found you could;t reliably do it, you could as far as i know re start the old claim

 

Also if you failed at the F2F and you needed to make a new claim within iirc 3mths your benefit was paid at the same rate as it was previously higher rate after 6mths ect

[jason2723637]

yep why they done this they should go back to basics again back to IB and DLA perm days

[tommy456]

Been thinking about this for some time ,as there doesn't seem to be any concise information readily available regarding the rules /regulations of JSA, ie what is mandatory and what isn't

 

From the claimant commitment to electronic signing there are a number of things that many JCP work coaches will attempt to foister upon those who are not aware of what they can and can't be mandated to do, this info being in one place it think would be very valuable especially to those who were found fit for work after attending the Maximus WCA (F2F farce) as well as those who have never claimed JSA previously

Would it be possible to do this and give it a sticky ?

[tommy456]

There are several topics that in part cover this scenario of those who are claiming ESA WRAG

Being mandated to attend the WP providers place of business and participation in the WP but most of the info is not current legislation , I have found very little about it on the WWW

apart from https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/work-programme-dwp-provider-guidance

 

Surely there must be more info available in the public domain , therefore if anyone can help with this it would be i'm sure be appreciated by anyone affected by this cruel regime ?

[TW25]

http://www.citizensadviceipswich.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/3D-Project-Ips-CAB-and-ISCRE-TDE.pdf

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/reasonable_adjustments_for_jsa_a

 

2 links there which may help those who struggle like myself. Seems you have to tell your work coach what is available and not the other way around. Crazy that you have to trawl the net to get the help needed and it not be offered.

[tommy456]

What i would really like to know is WHY do JCP staff act like robots when it comes to using UJ what is so wonderfully spectacular about it, apart from them being able to mandate you to create a UJ and use it as a way to persecute those that should be on ESA ?

 

Then there's the delay in them actually making a payment some 3 working days after your signing day so can be 5 actual days later , i see my EPS being used very soon, unless i win the lottery,

[tommy456]

Well after Some 6 weeks of starting a new claim (under duress) for JSA I have been mandated to create a UJ account ,which they use as a tool to enable them to increase the number of hoops they expect you to jump through

 

As a result they rip up the original CC and write a new one with more hoops , Some which i never agreed to and wasn't even told about,

 

But the best about it is that the CC both copies are incorrectly dated and totally unsigned by the work coach or me,

 

I'm sure that i read somewhere that if this isnt signed then they cannot enforce it, or sanction for not complying with the agreement that i did not make, is this correct?

 

As above, i received the ESA85 bundle and a letter from the DWP some 5-6weeks ago and gave them to my CAB adviser, who said they would send it as soon as ,

 

But when i checked with the DWP to confirm that they have it , they say none? If it turns out that for some reason it hasn't been sent , what the state of play ,as it ain't down to me that they haven't received it

[SabreSheep]

Seeing as you have to agree to a CC, if you have not signed it, how have you agreed it?

[tommy456]

Well I and you both know this , but do the goons at the DWP ?

 

She got a little flustered due to me insisting on signing on using pen and paper,

and because she had gone into driod mode briefly

Re the use of the My work plan book, (that i have not so far used)

 

she was implying it was needed as evidence,

but i had to remind her it wasn't mandatory to use it, nor did i have to even write my job search activities on paper,

as i could give my evidence of job search verbally if i wished,

 

She then said well if you are able to remember details of the searches on UJ ect and details of any jobs you apply for, fine but if you can't she implied that she may have to raise a doubt, & i could end up being sanctioned ( usual bullying tactics)

 

I can see me using my 13 weeks EPS already have fit note listing same conditions that i was claiming esa for should i need it, but i was wanting to use as a last resort , because there is not time constraints of decision makers to process MR's

 

Some further info,the written MR request was sent by CAB back in April, Prior to that i had in fact already verbally requested an MR on the phone to the DWP decision making team or whatever they call themselves hence having the ESA65 -85 delivered shortly afterwards

[Bazooka Boo]

Send these [edited] a SAR which is free, and have them send you everything the hold on you regarding your dealings with them.

 

This is just another deliberate attempt by them to frustrate your legal right to have a MR, it isn't the first, nor will it be the last time, in which they deliberately 'lose' paperwork, inform your local MP also, and have them account for why this government department is so corrupt in it's dealing with the weakest poorest members of society.

 

If your goon is a Tory, then don't hold your breath, they'll just wheel out the usual lies and tell you what you want to hear.

Edited May 21, 2016 by honeybee13
Pejorative word removed.

[Bazooka Boo]

Local Goon is LIB Dim so a tory in all but name, and quite useless TBH, I won't forget or forgive them for 5yrs of hell 2010-2015 of their demolition of the NHS and Benefits system

 

Thing is it's not only paperwork they the person who i spoke to from the DWP was told that i wanted an MR ,there should be a recording of the call, even though it wasn't one of their main call centres as it was a normal local geographic number

 

Doesn't matter, send them a SAR https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/dwp-request-for-personal-information and demand that they provide copies of ALL of your telephone conversations with them also.

 

In future, unless you can record your telephone conversations with them, then at the very least, note the time, and date, you rang, plus the telephone jockeys name.

 

Try and keep everything in writing so you have a paper trail of evidence, there is NO need to send anything recorded delivery, just ensure you obtain 'Proof of posting' which is free from the PO counter, that is all the evidence you will need.

 

Having fought these criminals for over three years before they finally capitulated, there is nothing they will not do in order to frustrate and deliberately ignore your legal rights to be treated as a human being, they are morally bankrupt!

[tommy456]

I have time date and telephone number called and if i can find the letter the name of who i spoke to ,But cab are sending a copy of the original they claim they didn't receive,

 

And it's looking like I'll be using my fit note for EPS ,as i can see that the work coach is all too ready to ramp up my job seeking activities, from the unsigned by them or me Claimant commitment , which contained one or two steps that wasn't discussed or agreed,

[Bazooka Boo]

All I can say is to record EVERYTHING, keep copies of who you speak with and the content of that conversation IF you're unable to record it somehow.

[tommy456]

Well my cc was amended without any protest ,So no need as yet to break out the fit note just yet

 

Whilst i was waiting i overheard one work coach misleading a job seeker into believing that they had to upload their cv onto the universal jobmatch site, I felt like going over and telling the poor guy that that isn't mandatory and he was being misled,

Edited May 27, 2016 by honeybee13
Pejorative word edited.

[tommy456]

Found out via the JC that the MR has now been done and a case of decision not been revised, So a tick box exercise then without them even reading it otherwise they would of spotted their error in the number of points they awarded ,

 

once i get the decision notice i will be registering an appeal,

i need to get off JSA they know i have mobility issues yet insist on calling me in nearly each week ,

 

I mentioned going EPS and was told that they can still mandate you to come in and sign on every 2 weeks ,

 

This I'm not convinced is the truth were the reason they are claiming JSA using EPS is for issues that affect their mobility ?

[Bazooka Boo]

Criminal isn't it, I hope you are keeping your MP informed and demanding they answer for their departments continued attack on the weakest poorest members of society?