Notice of Enforcement letter after Attachment of Earnings agreed?

[seylectric]

Hope the title makes sense but that's the situation.

 

 

In detail, the debtor and his partner owe just under £5000 to a private creditor,

who obtained a CCJ which took the total to just over £5000 including costs.

 

The people are one self employed, with a partner employed in a minimum wage job.

 

The debt remained unpaid and 3 months later the creditor applied for an Attachment of Earnings order (AEO),

against the partner obviously as of course he can't obtain one against someone who is self employed.

 

 

At a court hearing the judge took into consideration the couple's "tentative" financial situation

and awarded the creditor £20 a month via an AEO.

 

 

The creditor wasn't particularly happy with the low amount but the judge said "tough luck".

 

Since then no paperwork has been received by the couple from the court,

nor has the partner's employer received anything to enforce the AEO,

and no deductions have been made from her monthly pay in the 2 pay packets

she has received since the court hearing around 6 weeks ago.

 

a couple of days ago a Notice of Enforcement was received by the couple from a private London Enforcement Officer.

The form is genuine.

 

 

The details include:

 

"Judgement was entered against you by the claimant (etc)..in XX October 2015.

The judgement was subsequently transferred to the High Court for enforcement purposes

and a writ of control has been obtained.

 

IMPORTANT:

The questions here are:

 

1. Is there an Attachment of Earnings order in force,

since neither debtors nor the partner's employer have received any paperwork from the court?

 

 

I guess I'm asking is,

given that the judge awarded the AEO to the creditor at the court hearing 6-7 weeks ago,

can he then reject it without it ever being enforced and pursue enforcement via the bailiffs instead?

 

2. Can the creditor enforce the debt by asking bailiffs to attend AS WELL AS having an AEO in place?

I ask this because it was always my understanding that the existence of the AEO

prevented the creditor from pursuing any other action at the same time.

 

- or -

 

Can the creditor still do this against the self employed debtor even though the partner has an AEO filed against them?

 

3. Are the debtors not entitled to be informed that the case has been moved to the High Court

and the AEO amended (if any changes have taken place) prior to the Notice of Enforcement being issued?

 

There may be a couple more points I need clarifying later

but at this stage I need to establish the legality of the Notice of Enforcement

here before making any moves.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

Sorry for the long post,

 

 

I've tried to keep it as short as while including the relevant details.

[dx100uk]

was the agreement signed by both parties?

[seylectric]

By 'agreement' do you mean the AEO? It wasn't signed by anybody as such, it was decided by the judge at court to award the creditor £20 a month. No paperwork confirming the judge's decision has been received, i.e. confirming the AEO so it isn't known whether one is actually in place or not, but given that's what the judge's decision was at the hearing then it's assumed that there is an AEO in place at this stage and that the paperwork just hasn't come through yet.

[dx100uk]

no the original loan agreement

was it joint

did you BOTH sign it

[AndyOrch]

IMPORTANT:

The questions here are:

 

1. Is there an Attachment of Earnings order in force,

since neither debtors nor the partner's employer have received any paperwork from the court? No not if it has not been activated with the employer

 

 

I guess I'm asking is,

given that the judge awarded the AEO to the creditor at the court hearing 6-7 weeks ago,

can he then reject it without it ever being enforced and pursue enforcement via the bailiffs instead? Yes

 

2. Can the creditor enforce the debt by asking bailiffs to attend AS WELL AS having an AEO in place? Yes

I ask this because it was always my understanding that the existence of the AEO

prevented the creditor from pursuing any other action at the same time. Not true

 

- or -

 

Can the creditor still do this against the self employed debtor even though the partner has an AEO filed against them? Yes because the AoE has not been processed with the employer

 

3. Are the debtors not entitled to be informed that the case has been moved to the High Court Not normally informed

and the AEO amended (if any changes have taken place) Forget the AoE its been shelved prior to the Notice of Enforcement being issued?

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[seylectric]

Interesting. Almost the opposite of what I understand the information given by National Debtline offered earlier. I'll get an N245 organised for them in the meantime while I look into it further.

 

Thanks Andy, more to follow later.

[ploddertom]

I have to agree with what andyorch has said. Now that it has been progressed to High Court Enforcement action it would be sensible to apply both for a Stay of Execution against the Writ and also a Variation Order where an instalment arrangement can be made which based on what has happened previously should be £20 per month. It does appear that the Creditor is impatient.

[Bailiff Advice]

It would be sensible to call the court to ask why a copy of the order made by the Judge has not been sent out and why the attachment was not put in place.

[AndyOrch]

And watch out for the £100 AoE fee being added to the debt

[seylectric]

I have to agree with what andyorch has said. Now that it has been progressed to High Court Enforcement action it would be sensible to apply both for a Stay of Execution against the Writ and also a Variation Order where an instalment arrangement can be made which based on what has happened previously should be £20 per month. It does appear that the Creditor is impatient.

 

Thank you.

 

Having had some experience at the wrong end and knowing how this forum works I've agreed to try and help this couple, who are friends of my daughter, but they are reluctant for me to discuss too many details. I know they're broke, and really struggling but not entitled to any sort of financial help. They would also struggle dealing with this which they would find very daunting.

 

I also know the creditor who is a bit of a nightmare. He sent one bill out then had a CCJ application filed within a fortnight, and the AEO application within a couple of weeks of that. Now he has gone down this route. He genuinely thinks they have the money in the bank, I have no idea where he gets this from - I'm sure as I can be that they have no assets of any kind - but he is impossible to try and reason with.

 

We're hopeful he won't pursue it any further if the HCEOs do visit. I think I'm correct in saying that at least some of them are self employed so it wouldn't be in their interest to call too many times so as long as they keep the door locked they should be OK. They can put their car on my drive, we're not too far away, and it's not going to be economically viable for the creditor to pursue it any further - hopefully. However, I'll see that they get those forms filled in.

 

Thanks all for the advice everybody, I'll come back if I need anything else, the only thing I can think of is that the creditor may apply for bankruptcy if this fails.

[AndyOrch]

"Thanks all for the advice everybody, I'll come back if I need anything else, the only thing I can think of is that the creditor may apply for bankruptcy if this fails."

 

Make a few payments and get it under the threshold (5K)

[Bailiff Advice]

And watch out for the £100 AoE fee being added to the debt

 

On a sightly different subject (attachment of earnings for council tax arrears). This morning I have been assisting a lady who has two Attachment of Earnings Orders and her employer deducted an 'administration fee' of £25 when setting up each order.

 

She checked her pay slips for last year (when she had another AOE) and in that case, she was also charged the same administration fee. I advised her that there is no provision in law for such a fee to be charged and that the only fee allowed is £1 per deduction. In fact, she is also being charged £2.50 per deduction. This is crippling her as she is being paid weekly and the 'fees' being charged are £20 per month !!!!

 

I suggested that she she speak with her employer. She has just called me back and the employer has turned exceptionally nasty and has referred her to her T & C of employment and it does indeed allow for these administration fees.

[seylectric]

It would be sensible to call the court to ask why a copy of the order made by the Judge has not been sent out and why the attachment was not put in place.

 

Yes I've already suggested that, hopefully they will do that today.

[AndyOrch]

Yes I've already suggested that, hopefully they will do that today.

 

The court has no accountability if the the AoE is not progressed to the the employer...its at the creditors prerogative to accept and action.

[seylectric]

"Thanks all for the advice everybody, I'll come back if I need anything else, the only thing I can think of is that the creditor may apply for bankruptcy if this fails."

 

Make a few payments and get it under the threshold (5K)

 

 

That was my advice too. The only concern at the moment is if the Enforcement procedure goes ahead the fees beyond the first stage are extortionate, from the point of view of somebody who is broke anyway.

[seylectric]

The court has no accountability if the the AoE is not progressed to the the employer...its at the creditors prerogative to accept and action.

 

Agreed, but if the creditor can apply for other methods of enforcement concurrently it's irrelevant really.

[seylectric]

Easier said than done. My understanding is that even finding the extra £20 a moth would have been tight. The debt, with fees, now stands at just under £5200 and at the moment there are no ways to pay the creditor other than by cash/cheque as far as I know. The court form only gives an address for payment, not a bank account to which it can be paid into (for example). I presume he can also reject a part payment if he wants to.

[AndyOrch]

Then its imperative that you follow the advice in post#7 (submit the N245 today).

[ploddertom]

The HCEO can charge all the fees he wants but if he cannot execute the Writ then there is not much he can do. He has no automatic right of entry to a residential address and providing there is nothing of value outside then all they need to do is to adopt a siege mentality. As said previously they could apply for a Stay which if granted halts any further enforcement action & charges. Usually an Enforcement Agent may visit some 3 or 4 times at varying times of day but if he is getting no where he is not going to waste his time & will return the Writ to the Claimant who can of course instruct another HCEO if they want. It could be your friends can claim exemption in full or part with any Court Fees - see Forms EX160a & EX160c for details.

[seylectric]

Then its imperative that you follow the advice in post#7 (submit the N245 today).

 

Thanks again, Already done. I'm clear on the rest, I just needed the details on the validity of the Enforcement following the AEO. I'm already looking into the fees and possible exemption as I think they have a valid counterclaim. Unfortunately they won't give me permission to discuss the finer details on here - if it was my own case I would be happy to discuss, I couldn't care less what anybody thinks. But I'm limited with what time I have to spend on this so need it tidying up quickly ideally for everybody's benefit.

 

 

I'm well aware of bailiff's capabilities Tom but unfortunately it's not me that's going to be there. I just need to convince them not to be conned or threatened into opening the door no matter what, should it come to that.

[ploddertom]

They must remember that if they just apply for a Variation then this does not halt enforcement continuing only a successful application for a Stay does this. Are they able to see for themselves some of the advice offered here. If so it could be well worth them visiting other parts of CAG for targetted help in other areas they may need.

[seylectric]

No, they have no internet or computer access unfortunately, which is part of the reason I'm helping out. I'm just waiting to find out if they have phoned the court office today as the Notice doesn't state which court issued it, so as it stands I only have the County Court address, not the High Court one. I'm assuming at this point that the application form needs to be sent to the High Court but I haven't checked.