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Looking for some advice,

 

Wife works in a primary school and has been late on a number of occasions 15 in total since Nov 15. most of this has been due to our daughter now 2 having problems with nursery attached to the school she works in.

 

Headteacher pulled her into the office about it and gave her a management instruction and told her if she was late again it would go to a disciplinary.

 

She explained to the headteacher that she was actually waiting to speak to him about the times. she said someone had been altering her signing in times on the fire register giving and example of 9.01am being changed to 9.07am with someone altering the 1 to a 7 making it appear she was later than it actually was.

 

She also pointed out that some times had been altered showing she signed in before 9am her starting time to show after 9am. At first she thought it was a mistake but after seeing a few of these she though she better speak to the head as the office staff didn't seem to know anything about it.

 

She stated to the Headteacher that this was possibly fraud and he said well that is a bit harsh I wouldn't put it like that. But I think I know who has been doing it, it was the office manager but in any event the management instruction still stands and that's the end of it.

 

My wife is thinking if getting her union in for a meeting as the head seems to think it's acceptable for someone to alter a legal document?

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Union would be a good move

 

Also time keeping needs sorting

All the time you are early no one notices when you are late they all do

 

Would you employ someone who was late regularly ? sort time keeping!


If i have helped in any way hit my star.

any advice given is based on experience and learnt from this site :-)

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photograph the signing in book every time you sign in or out will put paid to that. My wife used to work for a company that had a staff rota that was supposedly fixed a fortnight in advance but was often altered so everyone photographed the week's rota when they filled it in and when teh doctored versionwas shown to then as being their ****s for teh week they would just pull up the images on their phones and say no, that isnt what we have down. the shenanigans soon stopped and the person with the rubber and pencil soon got moved to another role.

  • Confused 1

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I suggested that she take a photo of her signing in as well. She is aware that she has been late on some occasions a lot of this has been down to my 2 year old daughter moving into the 2 year old room and not settling so well for a month or 2. Found out in the end that one of the nursery workers she didn't gel to so well. Head Teacher was aware that there was some problems though so the issue was being addressed. Wife has worked for the school for 5 years and time keeping was never a problem before so it isn't something that has been a long term thing.

 

After speaking with the Head about the alterations on the signing in document he didn't seem too bothered that they had been altered and was aware of the person doing it with no response that he was going to address the issue.

 

Wife has a meeting coming up soon and will be talking it through with her Union

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in the meanwhile follow my suggestion as the evidence may be needed in the future. If I were the head I would be worried that someone was altering legal documents ( the signing in book is not just for timekeeping, it has other more important purposes)

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in the meanwhile follow my suggestion as the evidence may be needed in the future. If I were the head I would be worried that someone was altering legal documents ( the signing in book is not just for timekeeping, it has other more important purposes)

 

You've actually raised a fair point and it didn't occur to me until I read your last post.

 

I suggested to the wife how far back could this actually go where the time has been altered and how many other staff members time has been altered what else has this person done as they have access to everyone records e.g sickness and so forth.

 

I said to the wife some of the late records you can see they have been altered but how do you know there has been some you can't see etc my wife has admitted that there have been times she has been late but now you have to question how much of this is actually a true account and not and with the head actually acknowledging that the records have been tampered with she is defiantly taking it further. first port of call is taking photo copies of recent signing in sheets as far as November

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Looking for some advice,

 

 

Wife has been working in a school for about 5 years now and has run into no end of problems with a new headteacher that took over about 1 ½ -2 years ago.

 

 

She wanted to do a course at Uni about the same time the head started and she stated to them that the course would be paid for through loans from the Uni and wouldn't cost the school for it and she was asking for thursday afternoons out which amounted to 2 ½ hours of work time.

 

 

So for a year now she has been doing this Uni course and the head pulled her into the office a few weeks ago and asked if she was still doing the course and she said yes and he wanted dates she was in. So she explained ever thurs afternoons.

 

 

He then said well doesn't the course run on semesters and she said it has been yes so he asked her why she was out of school on thursday afternoons out of these times and she replied that she was still doing Uni work in those hours and he said ok but can you get the university lecturer to contact me as I want to speak with them.

 

 

So this call took place as the headteacher didn't seem to believe she was attending the course and the lecturer explained her course to the headteacher and times she was in.

 

 

Wife was called into the office on Friday and given a letter stating that after speaking to the course leader he was satisfied she was still attending the course however after speaking to HR he will be taking the matter to a disciplinary for “dishonesty” for taking paid time out of school out of the semester time zones and getting paid for it between “May-July”

 

 

(roughly 8 weeks) and wife has worked it out to be about £140

 

 

My wife tried to explain to the head that when she first approached him and the deputy head for this course she asked for thursdays afternoons off and they agreed she was unaware that it was only for semester dates only as they never stipulated this. But he dismissed her and wasn't interested.

 

 

They have what is called office 365 online and the staff can log into the school and input there own dates they are out but like a calendar and the whole staff can see what others are doing around school e.g meetings and courses etc.

 

 

So the head has access to this and would have seen a year ago that my wife put in the dates out of school for thurs afternoons from Jan 15 to July 15 and for some reason hes waited a whole year to pull my wife and then get funny about it but never stipulated that she had to be in school when not attending lectures. But she has been doing her Uni work all this time.

 

 

She is really worried now that 15 years in a school background and half way through a BA (hons) that she is going to lose her job and well lets face it she wont get school employment again and will have to stop the uni course as well.

 

 

At the moment he's doing more investigating but there isn't much more to dig out.

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Thought I would just update this thread. Wife asked for some copies of the time sheets and was told by the person (head admin/business person) that had been changing them that she wasn't allowed copies of them as they are private and confidential, a fire register and used for working out staff overtime and that a "sickness meeting" she is having tomorrow this head admin person for the school is bringing some in with her tomorrow that she has hand picked out and it can be talked about tomorrow.

 

Her Union is with her in the meeting but her sickness is ok and on track to that side of it will be ok but wife is concerned that this admin person who is coming in taking notes is the one that has been altering the times as well and will be present in the meeting and she has hand picked the sign in sheets for the meeting which my wife is seeing this as a conflict of interest as the head has said to wife that he couldn't say who has been changing them or what the out come is but when wife pressed him for an answer she said was it who you thought it was and he said "yes" and "no" and I can't discuss it any further.

 

So wife is going to bring this up tomorrow before the meeting. because on one of the sheets it was 9.01 so was already late by 1 min but noted that a line had been put across the 1 to make it a 7 saying 9.07. she did asked the office staff who had changed it and they all denied any wrong doing but as the wife stated to the head there was nothing to gain from changing it as I was already late it's not like a lied.

 

As for taking photo's for evidence she has been told it would be a sackable offence

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Looking for some advice,

 

 

Wife has been working in a school for about 5 years now and has run into no end of problems with a new headteacher that took over about 1 ½ -2 years ago.

 

 

She wanted to do a course at Uni about the same time the head started and she stated to them that the course would be paid for through loans from the Uni and wouldn't cost the school for it and she was asking for thursday afternoons out which amounted to 2 ½ hours of work time.

 

 

So for a year now she has been doing this Uni course and the head pulled her into the office a few weeks ago and asked if she was still doing the course and she said yes and he wanted dates she was in. So she explained ever thurs afternoons.

 

 

He then said well doesn't the course run on semesters and she said it has been yes so he asked her why she was out of school on thursday afternoons out of these times and she replied that she was still doing Uni work in those hours and he said ok but can you get the university lecturer to contact me as I want to speak with them.

 

 

So this call took place as the headteacher didn't seem to believe she was attending the course and the lecturer explained her course to the headteacher and times she was in.

 

 

Wife was called into the office on Friday and given a letter stating that after speaking to the course leader he was satisfied she was still attending the course however after speaking to HR he will be taking the matter to a disciplinary for “dishonesty” for taking paid time out of school out of the semester time zones and getting paid for it between “May-July”

 

 

(roughly 8 weeks) and wife has worked it out to be about £140

 

 

My wife tried to explain to the head that when she first approached him and the deputy head for this course she asked for thursdays afternoons off and they agreed she was unaware that it was only for semester dates only as they never stipulated this. But he dismissed her and wasn't interested.

 

 

They have what is called office 365 online and the staff can log into the school and input there own dates they are out but like a calendar and the whole staff can see what others are doing around school e.g meetings and courses etc.

 

 

So the head has access to this and would have seen a year ago that my wife put in the dates out of school for thurs afternoons from Jan 15 to July 15 and for some reason hes waited a whole year to pull my wife and then get funny about it but never stipulated that she had to be in school when not attending lectures. But she has been doing her Uni work all this time.

 

 

She is really worried now that 15 years in a school background and half way through a BA (hons) that she is going to lose her job and well lets face it she wont get school employment again and will have to stop the uni course as well.

 

 

At the moment he's doing more investigating but there isn't much more to dig out.

 

Not much more to dig out other than her repeated lateness and the other issues you haven't mentioned here, but mention on

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?459872-Office-staff-altering-sign-in-times&p=4878933#post4878933

?

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Thought I would just update this thread. Wife asked for some copies of the time sheets and was told by the person (head admin/business person) that had been changing them that she wasn't allowed copies of them as they are private and confidential, a fire register and used for working out staff overtime and that a "sickness meeting" she is having tomorrow this head admin person for the school is bringing some in with her tomorrow that she has hand picked out and it can be talked about tomorrow.

 

Her Union is with her in the meeting but her sickness is ok and on track to that side of it will be ok but wife is concerned that this admin person who is coming in taking notes is the one that has been altering the times as well and will be present in the meeting and she has hand picked the sign in sheets for the meeting which my wife is seeing this as a conflict of interest as the head has said to wife that he couldn't say who has been changing them or what the out come is but when wife pressed him for an answer she said was it who you thought it was and he said "yes" and "no" and I can't discuss it any further.

 

So wife is going to bring this up tomorrow before the meeting. because on one of the sheets it was 9.01 so was already late by 1 min but noted that a line had been put across the 1 to make it a 7 saying 9.07. she did asked the office staff who had changed it and they all denied any wrong doing but as the wife stated to the head there was nothing to gain from changing it as I was already late it's not like a lied.

 

As for taking photo's for evidence she has been told it would be a sackable offence

 

Does this now need merging with

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?461726-Wife-facing-disciplinary-for-quot-dishonesty-quot&p=4878952#post4878952

 

If she is now facing investigation for possible dishonesty (regarding her Thursday afternoon absences), too?

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But that is a separate issue not associated with this thread and not something being accounted for in the disciplinary

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But that is a separate issue not associated with this thread and not something being accounted for in the disciplinary

 

You think it won't feature at all in the disciplinary meeting today (the 22nd) ?

 

From that other thread:

and that a "sickness meeting" she is having tomorrow this head admin person for the school is bringing some in with her tomorrow that she has hand picked out and it can be talked about tomorrow

 

Is she having two separate meetings? (One 'disciplinary' and one 'sickness')?

Or one meeting?

 

Likely all will feature in one meeting where all these issues will certainly be relevant. Even if they (unusually!) hold 2 meetings : I doubt the information will be "in a vacuum" and not influence each other.

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I would not be optomistic: I think she has been misleading. Also I think they are now gunning for her, and 3 errors is 2 too many.


Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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Ask yourself why it would be a sackable offence to copy your own data as you entered it into a log?

SAR will get you copies of all the past entries. They may well have to redact the other entries from the log but it would be very useful to see the time entered by the person immediately after her signing-in.

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She has been to the meeting today (her sickness meeting went ok no problems) but as some said they decided to inc the lates into the meeting.

 

Emmzzi my wife has never been misleading when she applied for the university course she asked for 2 1/2 hours out on thursdays and has attended university to do this course which was granted by the school. the issue the head teacher has had is that she was dishonest in that when the semester ended at the end of May she was still going to Uni to do her work and getting paid for it. He hasn't actually stated in his letter to her whether she should have been out or not only that she was getting paid for it and hasn't said she cannot go out to continue doing the course.

 

My wife assumed that it was ok to be out during term times and nothing was said even when she booked her shifts for it right through he never mentioned it wasn't ok and has waited a whole year to pull her on it when the problem could have been dealt with there and then at the time and this would never have been an issue her defense is that he has been about as clear as mud with the whole situation. do you think she was taking time out and going shopping instead? by being misleading?

 

She's not going to throw away 15 years a Degree and our daughter lose her nursery place through it for the sake of £140 and 30k+ worth of debt.

 

As for the lates as per my other thread these were due to our daughter having problems moving across into the 2 year old nursery and she wasn't settling but in any event they decided to inc them in this meeting.

 

They are saying that she has put times down on the time sheet for example 9.07 arrived and put 9.01 and the person in the office that altered the time sheets as said that she has corrected the time she saw her sign in to the time she put on the sheet and there was other witness in the office.

 

When my wife got the management instruction for being late it never mentioned anything about altering times only about being late however when she approached the head to say someone had been changing her times and he stated I know who it is nothing was done about it. it wasn't till now in this meeting that the admin officer admitted that she had been altering her time sheets. my wife has stated that these sheets should never have been touched and if they had a problem with it then why wasn't it brought up in the management instruction when he supposedly knew about it then. she was concerned that times has been altered to make her later than she was as she said to the head I was already late at 9.01.

 

So the Union person has told her not to speak to the head anymore unless its school related matter regarding pupils and to contact the HR person on the letter. she is having an interview in 2 weeks time with HR and they will decided after this if it should go to a disciplinary they have told her if found guilty it could constitute to "gross misconduct"

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Does this now need merging with

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?461726-Wife-facing-disciplinary-for-quot-dishonesty-quot&p=4878952#post4878952

 

If she is now facing investigation for possible dishonesty (regarding her Thursday afternoon absences), too?

 

BazzaS can you alter posts/thread if so can you delete this one and my other one or lock them and I will make a new one inc both as originally lates were not inc in the disciplinary but he has decided to inc them now but didn't find out until today (was under union protest) but I can at least make the new thread a little clearer now? if not could an admin sort it out thanks

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BazzaS can you alter posts/thread if so can you delete this one and my other one or lock them and I will make a new one inc both as originally lates were not inc in the disciplinary but he has decided to inc them now but didn't find out until today (was under union protest) but I can at least make the new thread a little clearer now? if not could an admin sort it out thanks

 

Hello there.

 

Only site team can alter your posts or threads. I'm afraid I don't quite understand what you want to do. Can you elaborate please?

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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It's common sense that your wife was only supposed to be out of work when she actually had a class to go to.

 

It's not reasonable to assume she was allowed to still have the afternoon off during non term times.

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threads merged

use this one

people can understand the story if they read it

 

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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It's common sense that your wife was only supposed to be out of work when she actually had a class to go to.

 

It's not reasonable to assume she was allowed to still have the afternoon off during non term times.

 

Well perhaps my wife has been stupid then because her conversation at the time was that could she have Thursday afternoons out and I can assure you she was attending uni to do the work as had her bag full of books and her laptop taken with her to work in the morning ready to leave in the afternoon.

She often didn't get home till gone 7/8pm some nights.

 

 

My point in this that the head usually authorised leave for people on a week by week basis so if he knew at the time if she was out why didn't he say something at the start he's waited a year and if it had been a problem it could have been sorted before it got to this stage.

 

She thought she was allowed out for study time around her lectures but his point is that it's not that she wasn't allowed out it was that she was paid for it as it was misleading. Paid or not getting paid for it was never discussed in the meeting.

 

But in any event HR will be doing the interview then decide if it should go to a disaplinary.

 

I came to this forum for some guidance at a time when I thought someone might have been able to offer advice it's not just her 15 years down the pan

 

 

she'll lose the university place my daughter will lose her nursery place and we'll be 30k in debt

and my wage alone can't support our family.

 

 

Gross misconduct is a possibility she'll be lucky to ever work again.

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I'll leave this thread I think now there isn't much more to add now. Thanks

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The problem is, it is impossible to give advice that is useful to someone who thinks they have done no wrong,

when the consensus is that they have done wrong.

 

I'd be apologising, explaining I was indeed studying, had misunderstood, and asking if I could work the hours back.


Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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great post emmzzi

 

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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Would just like to update this post.

 

 

After wife had her meeting with HR on the 18th April all recorded with her Union rep

they wrote to her and told her that they were going to take it to a disciplinary

and she had been waiting while they did a full investigation hence me writing now.

 

After the pack came through last week it didn't go so well for her as follows.

 

The latest-

it turns out that the Admin officer had confirmed she had been altering times

and had informed the head teacher she has been doing this

she also confirmed she had done this to other members of staff

she had noted had written the wrong time in to the time she checked with on her computer.

 

It was also noted that when wife was given a management instruction

the HT knew about these times

he had failed to take action at this time

and wasn't mentioned in the management instruction.

 

It was also noted that they said wife was still late after they corrected the clock that she was using to sign in with but then later back tracked to say the clock was never wrong as it was synced by satellite.

 

They also noted that the days and times were not correct

on the days she said she was late they were accusing her off

 

 

it was also noted that 2 days she was late after they had corrected the clock were snow days

making 1/4 of the school staff late over those 2 days

but the HT said she was making it up over those 2 days

and there wasn't any snow. despite showing proof that there was.

 

they decided to drop the lates.

 

For her Uni work

there was no proof that she was attending Uni on the out of semester days

it was her word against the schools and she was getting paid time off

despite wife saying they never had a conversation about paid or not paid time off,

 

 

There was also the fact she went as an external student from sept 15

but was allowed tutor/lector support still and her Union said she was still within the 2 year contract for her degree

 

 

the school agreed on but the HT argued that he should still have been informed she had decided to go external.

 

After all this was weighed up

HR and the head were still pushing for a sacking "said the union rep"

and the evidence for her uni weighed heavily against her

and that she would most likely lose if she challenged it.

They were pushing for "gross misconduct"

 

the Union rep said to wife that there was another way to do this

and she had a 3 way convo with HR and the HT and managed to get a deal

that if she was to hand her notice in before the disciplinary

she would finish 20th July and get paid to the end of August.

 

 

She would get a decent reference and the HT doesn't think he needs to mention there was a pending disciplinary

but would need to contact HR on that so still waiting on the outcome on that one.

 

Can't say it was the best result but I think my wife has been very lucky scraping out of this.

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