Apprentice son unfairly sacked please help

[ask2006]

Hi

 

My 19 year old son was sacked for poor performance 16 months into his 3 year apprenticeship.

 

He was given 15 minutes warning of his disciplinary hearing and no evidence in advance. No notes were taken and his companion in the hearing was told to make no comment. No notes were taken and when i asked for a copy of the notes they should have recorded they cobbled together a 9 sentence document (spread over 3 A4 pages) as a supposed record of a 20 minute meeting. It takes 1 minute to read.

 

My son was stunned as he had received no verbal warnings and thought things were ok. 2 days later when his wages were due the company paid half his wages. When i called up they said the money was just not there and everyone had received half their wage. He received the balance a week later. In the following week 5 other members of staff were made redundant.

 

It became quite clear that he was removed because they thought he'd be easy to get out because hes just an apprentice. Obviously the company is having financial problems and reducing the wage bill.

 

We wrote and asked for evidence of his poor performance as the phrase itself is ambiguous and the MD wrote back saying they had no more evidence and disagreed the dismissal reason was ambiguous. 4 days later the same MD chaired my sons appeal and will decide if his dismissal is fair.

 

We have appealed because they did not follow ACAS procedure in the initial hearing and he had no warnings before instant dismissal. Awaiting decision.

 

Any help please, we are desperate.

 

Can he go to a tribunal with only 16 months service if not are any other avenues open to us

Edited March 20, 2016 by honeybee13
Paras.

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I've moved your thread to the employment forum for comments from the experts. I expect they'll be along later.

 

HB

[Emmzzi]

hello,

 

is this a formal apprenticeship, with a 3 way agreement including a college?

[ask2006]

Yes i believe it was/is. The chap from the college was in the week before my son was sacked. he had come in to say he had gained his level 2 Qualification.

[Emmzzi]

have a read here

 

http://www.personneltoday.com/hr/apprenticeships-how-to-avoid-employment-law-problems/

 

you need to have a good detailed read of the contract to work out what kind it is, and what the options are

[ask2006]

Thanks Emmzzi. i think it must be ASCLA although i cant see where it says it is governed by the law of england and wales. Maybe omitting this technicality could mean it must be seen as common law apprenticeship?

It also says,

Dismissing an apprentice

Where the arrangement is terminated by the employer, or terminates automatically at the end of a fixed term, there will be a dismissal for the purposes of the Employment Rights Act 1996 and therefore the potential for an unfair dismissal claim exists.

Of course the time he has worked (16months) may preclude this.

[becky2585]

Missing any of the key components of the legislation could point towards a common law apprenticeship. It's one of the areas where the detail really does matter and you could form a case based on a technicality. That being the case, there could be a claim for wages for the remaining duration of the contract.

 

Worth seeking legal advice, I think!

[ask2006]

Thanks Becky.Will await the final decision on the appeal and take it from there.

[ericsbrother]

the old fashioned apprenticeship indentures meant that the apprentice couldnt leave and the employer couldnt dismiss. The employer gets paid by the government to have him (to a certain degree) so the reason for dismissal must be substantial and it doesnt appear to be so in this case. Take the matter up with his college as well, they have a financial interest as well as a legal and moral one. You cant make apprentices redundant so that not an excuse.

[donarebun]

To me it looks as if he was sacked becos you took action to enforce his rights under the Minimum Wage Act 1998.

 

I know he is an apprentice but he is also protected.

 

Talk to a Lawyer now and he could set things right before it get too complicated.

 

Most organizations will behave if they know a lawyer is involved

[ask2006]

Update folks.

The company responded to our appeal and upheld the dismissal.

They admitted that dismissal with immediate effect was not actually correct and have moved his dismissal date back by 4 weeks to try and correct that error and paid him 4 weeks in lieu.

They admit in writing that he had received no 'formal' warnings but because of his short time in employment they sometimes use a more informal approach. Unbelievable. They seem to be saying because your 19 you do not get the same treatment as an older employee who's been here for years. Is that age discrimination.

For employees with relatively short periods of employment such as yours, we often have to take difficult decisions

without a more formal disciplinary procedure being applied.

He has a full breakdown of the disciplinary process in his contract that has been totally ignored.

On giving only 15 minutes notice of the initial hearing they say,

Having reviewed the events of 11th February 2016 prior to your dismissal, I would agree that it is far from ideal to be

only given 15 minutes notice of the disciplinary hearing and Mr. ...... would have liked to have afforded you more

notice but there was a particularly difficult set of time constraints at the time related to the difficult financial situation in

which the Company finds itself.

However, I do not believe that more notice would have made any difference to the outcome.

It continued,

Your comments about the length of the notes are taken on board but the notes are not a verbatim record of the meeting

but a summary of the events

The final points they make are,

Having considered your representations in the round, I want to point out that the decision to terminate your employment

was taken only after serious consideration by Mr. ...... and in circumstances where there was little margin to allow

further opportunities to improve. Had the circumstances been different then it perhaps would have been possible to

allow you more time but regrettably that was not the case.

It is disappointing from all perspectives that you were unable to continue your apprenticeship with us but you will be

aware that the Company is also in the process of making long-serving employees redundant and therefore I am not in a

position to overturn Mr. ....... decision in the circumstances.

I have spoken to ACAS today because we have to go through them before considering a tribunal. I have suggested i think they may be guilty of Breach of contract and maybe even age discrimination.

Any thoughts would be very much appreciated.

Edited March 30, 2016 by ask2006

[ericsbrother]

have it in mind what you want as a result from all of this. I would be looking at making sure that the apprenticeship could continue elsewhere (college side at least) and this employer pick up the tab for the extra costs involved for the other parties (ie pay for college course until end of contracted period and pay normal rate for time away from new employer) This should be calculated and accepted as a lump sum settlement rather than being dragged out for another 2 years.

As for the letter above-absolute disgrace. They are trying to say that it is OK to sack him unlawfully and unfairly becasue they are having financial problems