DRP Demand letter without any initial PCN from G24 Ltd

[snake1980]

Hi guys. This is my first post here and so be gentle !!

 

Last week I received a demand letter from Debt Recovery Plus (DRP)

stating they are writing to me of behalf of their creditor (G24 Ltd).

 

 

It states they are writing to me due to no response received to their previous correspondence

and are demanding I pay £160 parking charge !

 

The thing is, this is the first I've heard of the parking charge/fine (dated 5th Nov 2015).

There has been no correspondence received.

I have also revisited the site (England) to inspect the disclaimer sign,

which states the fine is £100, or £40 if paid within 14 days.

 

Naturally,

I rang DRP and explained I have had no previous correspondence

and as such was completely oblivious to the parking fine.

 

 

He then said "Well you're now outside the 28 day appeals window" !!.

I then questioned him as to how I can appeal a situation I had no knowledge it existed !!

To which he had no answer, obviously.

 

At this point I also had no evidence of the offence I had allegedly commited

so I asked for this, which they emailed me at the weekend (two images of my car parked outside the lined bays).

 

 

I replied to the email thanking them for the evidence but also stating that I will not be paying £160

because I received no initial paperwork and was not given the opportunity to settle the matter at the reduced rate.

 

I then received a reply which I will copy below, which says they still want the £160....

 

Start of letter........

 

Thank you for youremail regarding the above Parking Charge Notice (PCN).

The time to challenge the charge has now expired and therefore access to the Independent Appeals Service (if applicable) is no longer available.

However, in order to resolve this matter, I will offer the following comments as to why this PCN was correctly issued and is still payable.

My findings

The site in question is subject to terms and conditions, which are stated on signs throughout the area. Those signs state that all vehicles must be parked in authorised areas.

On the date in question, the vehicle was parked in an unauthorised area and a PCN was correctly and legitimately issued as a result.

Correspondence

Please note that a PCN was sent to the vehicle’s registered address for notification purposes. If there has been a problem regarding the delivery of this document, this is a matter to raise with your postal service.

Under The Interpretations Act 1978:

Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

Your obligation to notify the DVLA of a change of circumstance

Regarding your details, I must stress that it is your obligation to ensure any of your details held at the DVLA are correct. If a delay in communication has resulted from a failure to do so, our company cannot be held accountable.

What you need to do now

Please ensure that £160.00 is paid by 24th March 2016. Payment can be made online or by phone. Go to 'link removed' or phone 0208 234 6775. You can find full details of how to pay on the reverse of the letter(s) sent.

What will happen if you do not pay what you owe

If the amount is not paid by the date shown above, we will recommend to our client that court action be taken by them to recover the outstanding balance.

What if you do not agree

Although any correspondence that does not provide further evidence will be noted and retained, I cannot guarantee that we will reply to it.

 

End of letter......

 

Surely they cannot force me to pay £160 when they cannot prove I received the initial PCN ? It also rages me that they say if I haven't received the initial PCN, then I need to contact my local postal service ! They're the sender, it's not my duty to ensure delivery and how can I query unsolicited mail ?

 

Any help/comments guys would be much appreciated.

 

Kind regards

[FTMDave]

Others much more knowledgeable than me will be on tomorrow, but logically, why, if you're bang to rights, aren't G24 Ltd immediately dragging you off to court rather than getting a debt collector to send you threatening letters which will "recommend" court action?

 

Because it's all nonsense, and people who know nothing about the law unfortunately feel threatened and cough up.

 

BTW, replying to you has forced me to stay up late and drink alcohol and therefore I want £500 from you which will increase by £200 for every day you delay payment and if unfulfilled after ten days will lead me to recommend you to be hung, drawn and quartered.

 

Anyone can send scary letters to anyone else, but if there is no legal basis to the letters that's all they are, scary letters.

 

Expect the experts tomorrow.

Edited March 15, 2016 by FTMDave

[dx100uk]

where does any of the paperwork use the word 'fine'

 

look carefully it doesn't!

 

its a speculative invoice.

ignore the DCA and never ever ring them

they ARE NOT BAILIFFS

and are totally powerless

 

it might be a bit more important for you to get your details and that of the vehicle updated with DVLA

pretty quick as it appears you've not updated one or both with DVLA since at least a change before nov 2015?

..now they CAN fine you!!

 

 

dx

[silverfox1961]

Hi and welcome to CAG

 

Can you go back to the site and take photographs of the signs. G24 have put up some signs that are misleading at best.

 

As it is, DR+ are the 'pet' DCA of choice for the parking industry as they work on a no win no fee basis so they will state things that aren't always true.

 

Their disclaimer about posting letters works in reverse too. You could easily have said that you appealed and G24 would say they never received it and they would use it as a get out.

 

The only way for G24 to get a penny out of you is if they took court action and you either didn't defend or lost the case however recent figures show they took no one to court last year.

 

If they were so sure of their case, why no action apart from letters.

 

The one question I have, have you moved house since the incident?

[snake1980]

Hi and welcome to CAG

 

Can you go back to the site and take photographs of the signs. G24 have put up some signs that are misleading at best.

 

As it is, DR+ are the 'pet' DCA of choice for the parking industry as they work on a no win no fee basis so they will state things that aren't always true.

 

Their disclaimer about posting letters works in reverse too. You could easily have said that you appealed and G24 would say they never received it and they would use it as a get out.

 

The only way for G24 to get a penny out of you is if they took court action and you either didn't defend or lost the case however recent figures show they took no one to court last year.

 

If they were so sure of their case, why no action apart from letters.

 

The one question I have, have you moved house since the incident?

 

Thanks for the reply. I have not moved house since the incident however, we owe 2 properties and the vehicle is registered at one address and my driving licence is registered at my more regular (and newest) address, so I don't see any problem with that. They reckon they sent the initial PCN to the address that vehicle is registered too, however nothing has ever arrived.

 

I will be visiting the site later this afternoon so I will take a photo of the sign and post here.

 

Thanks again

[Dublindel]

It seems we have 2 new rising methods to [problem] us. The 'we sent you a letter' but was not received so it's the receivers fault. Which means you can turn thetables with this and sdayyou sent them a letter even Iif you did not.

 

And the charge notice on your windscreen obscuring your legal parking ticket that you purchased. Then they remove it after the photos so you are not aware, hence you get the maximum charge. Suggest a print out of the above letter from DR and kept as reference and for circulation purposes

[slick132]

Which means you can turn the tables with this and say you sent them a letter even if you did not.

 

CAG does not condone dishonesty. Stick to the truth and don't stoop down to the levels used by Parking Co's.

 

[ericsbrother]

Two things,

DRP have no interest in this matter, they are paid £15 to send out letters and they add a few quid to the bill because if you are fool enough to pay them anything they may as well overcharge you. Dont waste your time with them. Their response makes it look like they offer some king of adjudication on this matter, the stupid comments they make will only land their client in hot water if they wish to go further. As it is with DRP then the chances of that are very slim.

secondly, service of a document is deemed to have happened 2 days after it was shoved in the post so ay legal defence based solely on not receiving a letter is likely to fail unless you can show that the company or your service address has a continuous problem with missing post. Many of the parking co's do have this problem and this is recognised by POPLA, the courts etc so if you are honest about what you have and havent received your statements will be preferred over theirs.

I recommend that you cease corresponding with DRP and only take notice of a lba from G24 as anything else is bog roll. Your phots of the signage at the site will be useful if they do start squarking.

[armadillo71]

Do not contact DR+ again. By letter or phone.

 

Now you have, then you will be subjected to the full wrath of their scary letter chain and now they have your number, probably phone calls. Ignore them.

 

Find out who the DVLA sold your data to and when here;

 

email [email protected]

 

Customer Complaint Resolution Team

D16W

DVLA

Swansea

SA6 7JL

 

This free for the RK. State you are being harassed for money and want to know why.

[snake1980]

Thanks for the replies. I will try to attach the image of the signage to this post.

 

So if I now ignore any correspondence from DRP, should I seek contact details for G24 directly or just wait from them to contact me ?

 

With regards to being honest about what I have and haven't received.... There was no correspondence received by G24 at all, so I was completely oblivious to the charge until I received a letter from DRP asking for £160. Regardless if the legal system deems the letters to have been served correctly, I will not be paying an inflated sum when I have had no opportunity to appeal or at least pay the reduced rate. I think it's disgraceful that a recorded service isn't required to prove receipt. If, for example, I send my driving license to the DVLA and they say they didn't receive it, then I have to pay for a replacement. Doesn't seem to work both ways.

 

It seems I cannot post the image of the sign here due to me being a new member. How can I do it ?

[snake1980]

Oh, it seems to have attached even though it said it couldn't !

[dx100uk]

might be better to crop and covert that to pdf?

we cant see that writing can you as we cant zoom on jpg uploads

 

 

try pdf after cropping to just the sign?

[snake1980]

Oh right. I can zoom in on it ok. Must differ depending on what device you're using. I'm on a laptop viewing with Firefox.

 

I will try to get it into PDF and re-attached.....

[snake1980]

PDF attached I hope......It refused to stay portrait !

sign.pdf

[armadillo71]

Post #9.

 

Find out from the DVLA who, when and if the POFA being used.

 

There is no keeper liability imo.

[snake1980]

Hi armadillo,

 

Thanks for your replies. I am new to all this so forgive me if I do not fully understand your meanings. So I need to contact the DVLA to ask why they gave my personal details to DRP ? Is the POFA the Protection of Freedoms Act ? Why do I need to mention this ?

 

Sorry, I just need to be clear what I am asking them and why. I've never had to reference the POFA before.

 

You say you think there is no keeper liability. So basically because they do not know who the driver was at the time, they have no place to demand payment from the registered keeper ?

 

Sorry for all the questions !

[ericsbrother]

No, you ask who accessed your data or why G24 accessed it. DRP have notbhing to do with any of this, they wont have accessed the DVLA database, they just get paid to send out silly letters.

When you get your response from the DVLA it should say whether G24 are claiming keeper liability under the PoFA or not.

[armadillo71]

As above.

 

How have you only received this one letter regarding the parking event?

 

They quote the interpretation act, but they must have proof that something was sent for it to apply.

This is why we always say get free proof of postage with anything sent to a PPC.

 

I believe Parking Collection Services may have obtained your RK details for G24. They are are trading name for DR+.

But not in the time frame needed under the POFA.

 

The POFA is quite clear on the time frames that must be adhered to for keeper liability to be enabled, plus all the other requirements of the NTD/NTK.

This why you need to find out who, when and why your details were sold by the DVLA.

 

But to reiterate, do not contact DR+ again...

[snake1980]

Hi again Armadillo,

 

Yes I have only received one letter regarding this charge and this one letter was from DR+. I have received nothing prior to that from G24, hence why I was oblivious of the alleged offence. I will contact the DVLA as you suggested and report back once they have replied.

 

Thanks again for your continuing support and I hope this thread helps others in future who have had the misfortune to cross paths with these glorified [problematic]