arrows/shoesmiths Claimform - HSBC Credit Card 'debt'

[Elliemygsd]

Hi

Over the last few days I have been working on my defence so that it is ready to submit before the dead line. I've spent some time researching this but as this is a new field for me I would be greatful for any feed back positive or negative

Thanks in advance

[Elliemygsd]

Particulars of the claim

 

Claimant

Arrow global limited.

Date of issue xxxxxx

 

1.The claimants claim the sum of £XXXX being monies due from the defendant to the claimant under a regulated agreement between the defendant and HSBC bank Plc. No (xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) and assigned to the claimant on xx/xx/201X, notice of which has been provided to the defendant.

 

2.The defendant has failed to make payment in accordance with the terms of the agreement and a default notice has been served pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

3.The claimant claims the sum of £XXXX the Claimant has complied, as far as is necessary with the pre-action conduct practice direction.

 

Defence

 

1.Paragraph 1 is denied , the defendant has never entered in to, or has knowledge of the alleged regulated agreement. The claimant has not provided the defendant with notice of assignment in accordance with s136 law and property act 1925and therefore have yet to prove they are entitled to bring this claim. The defendant does not recognise this account number.

 

2.Paragraph 2 is denied the agreement has not been entered into, neither have any terms been agreed by the defendant. It is denied I have been served with a default notice pursuant to the Consumer credit Act 1974 by HSBC or the claimant or any other party.

 

3.Paragraph 3 The claimant has not complied with the necessary pre action conduct direction and has not informed the defendant in writing with concise details of the claim. The claimant has not provided the defendant with a summary of the facts, or how the amount is calculated.

 

Therefore the defendant denies the claim as no agreement referred to in the claim has been entered into. The claimant is put to strict proof as to the existence , execution and terms of the alleged agreement therefore the claimant is put to strict proof to:-

 

show how the defendant has entered into an agreement with the claimant, and

Show how the claimant has reached the sum claimed for from the defendant, and

Show that they have served notice of the sums in arrears, and

Show how the claimant has the legal right,ether under statute or equity to issue a claim.

 

4. On 11th March 2016 I sent a request for inspection of the documents mentioned in the claimants statement of case under civil procedure rule 31.14 to the claimant's solicitor. I requested the claimant provides copies of the agreement, default notice and notice of assignment.

 

5. On 11the March 2016 I sent a formal request for a copy of the original agreement to Arrow Global Ltd pursuant to section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 along with the statutory fee.

 

6. The claimant has failed to comply with s78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and by virtue of sec 78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 cannot enforce the agreement.

 

7. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore it is expected that the claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.

 

8.By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief

Edited March 17, 2016 by Andyorch
Edited

[dx100uk]

https://cse.google.co.uk/cse?cx=partner-pub-8889411648654839:6449422593&ie=UTF-8&q=1,+The+claimants+claim+is+for+the+sum+of+%3F9000+boing+monies+due+from+the+defendant+to+the+claimant+under+a+regulated+agreement+between+the+defendant+and+XXX+Bank+Plc+&sa=Search+CAG#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=1%2C%20The%20claimants%20claim%20is%20for%20the%20sum%20of%20being%20monies%20due%20from%20the%20defendant%20to%20the%20claimant%20under%20a%20regulated%20agreement%20between%20the%20defendant%20and%20XXX%20Bank%20Plc

[Elliemygsd]

Yes , it was late when I copied it, corrected now, also my cut and past from my document didn't copy no,s 1,2,3,4. But the particulars of the claim are exactly as on the Claim form .

How the rest look

[AndyOrch]

Defence in post #52 now edited/reverted back to my original draft with all the extras removed:-)

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Elliemygsd]

Thanks Andy I was trying to personalise it a bit. One more question should at this stage I be using the frase "is denied" or I noticed in some other posts wording such as "Neither admits nor denies" The only agreement they can ever come up with would have to be reconstituted if at all.

[dx100uk]

no that's the old hat embarrassed defence

[AndyOrch]

It very rarely used now if at all...as it tends to imply to judges a line of debt avoidance which we as CAG do not advocate under any circumstances.Its perfectly acceptable to deny something until its proved otherwise by supported evidence...its perfectly acceptable to seek all verification..particularly in debts that have been wrote off/assigned/passed around that a claimant has the legal right to enforce an agreement.

[mercyblue]

That defence reads to me from paragraph one that you first deny there is any cca

"the defendant has never entered in to, or has knowledge of the alleged regulated agreement."

 

then proceed to say why this (non-existent) agreement is potentially unenforceable.

[AndyOrch]

That defence reads to me from paragraph one that you first deny there is any cca

"the defendant has never entered in to, or has knowledge of the alleged regulated agreement."

 

then proceed to say why this (non-existent) agreement is potentially unenforceable.

 

Well spotted MB...referring back to your first post Elliemygsd ....

 

" I have received court papers and have a few days left to respond. This is for a credit card I took out in 2005 and defaulted on in 2013."

 

 

Needs addressing !!

 

Andy

[Elliemygsd]

Ok that's why I asked the question about " Niether admits nor denies " guess I was uncomfortable with my first part of the defence, as I said in my orriganal post I'm not trying to get out of anything , it's a CCJ I can't have. And at this point the creditor is not going to be willing to negotiate so I have to get to a position where they will. Even if got this thrown out I doubt it's just going to go away. There are many things wrong the amount interest ,charges etc. Should I amend as follows

 

1.Paragraph 1 is denied , The claimant has not provided the defendant with notice of assignment in accordance with s136 law and property act 1925and therefore have yet to prove they are entitled to bring this claim. The defendant does not recognise this account number.

 

2.Paragraph 2 It is denied I have been served with a default notice pursuant to the Consumer credit Act 1974 by HSBC or the claimant or any other party.

 

Or should I be going with a different approach, bear in mind I'm a bit out of my depth here. I have read many posts but I can't seem to find one which exactly reflects mine. Any suggestions appreciated

[AndyOrch]

I will take another look at it tomorrow for you...and redraft your intro paragraph.

 

Andy

[Elliemygsd]

Thanks Andy .

[AndyOrch]

Particulars of the claim

 

Claimant

Arrow global limited.

Date of issue xxxxxx

 

1.The claimants claim the sum of £XXXX being monies due from the defendant to the claimant under a regulated agreement between the defendant and HSBC bank Plc. No (xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) and assigned to the claimant on xx/xx/201X, notice of which has been provided to the defendant.

 

2.The defendant has failed to make payment in accordance with the terms of the agreement and a default notice has been served pursuant to the consumer credit Act 1974

 

3.The claimant claims the sum of £XXXX the Claimant has complied, as far as is necessary with the pre-action conduct practice direction.

Defence

 

1.Paragraph 1 is accepted insofar as that I have in the past held a contractual relationship with HSBC bank Plc.I do not recall the precise details of the account and have requested verification from the claimant to which they have yet to comply.It is denied the claimant has provided the defendant with notice of assignment in accordance with s136 law and property act 1925 and therefore have yet to prove they are entitled to bring this claim. The defendant does not recognise or recall this account number.

 

2.Paragraph 2 is denied.It is denied I have been served with a default notice pursuant to the Consumer credit Act 1974 by HSBC or the claimant.

 

3.Paragraph 3 The claimant has not complied with the necessary pre action conduct direction and has not informed the defendant in writing with concise details of the claim. The claimant has not provided the defendant with a summary of the facts, or how the amount is calculated.

 

Therefore the defendant denies the claim as no agreement referred to in the claim has been entered into. The claimant is put to strict proof as to the existence , execution and terms of the alleged agreement therefore the claimant is put to strict proof to:-

 

show how the defendant has entered into an agreement with the claimant, and

Show how the claimant has reached the sum claimed for from the defendant, and

Show that they have served notice of the sums in arrears, and

Show how the claimant has the legal right,ether under statute or equity to issue a claim.

 

4. On 11th March 2016 I sent a request for inspection of the documents mentioned in the claimants statement of case under Civil Procedureicon rule 31.14 to the claimant's solicitor. I requested the claimant provides copies of the agreement, default notice and notice of assignment.

 

5. On 11the March 2016 I sent a formal request for a copy of the original agreement to Arrow Global Ltd pursuant to section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 along with the statutory fee.

 

6. The claimant has failed to comply with s78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and by virtue of sec 78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 cannot enforce the agreement.

 

7. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore it is expected that the claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.

 

8.By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief

[Elliemygsd]

Thanks Andy your help is greatly appreciated, also MB thanks for the input , I still look forward to reading the results of your successful outcome .

[Elliemygsd]

Update

Hi everyone

Since sending my CPR request a week later I received a letter from Shoosmiths acknowledging the request and advising they had asked ARROW for the following

1. Copy of agreement

2. Notice of assignment

3. default notice

4. Statement of account

It then goes on to state if they do not receive a copy of my defence by the 28 day deadline they will be a liberty to enter a judgment against me.

I ignored this comment as I entered my defence on the MCOL site.

It also says they do not agree with the rest of my comments including the time stipulations set out.

 

A week later I received a letter from the court acknowledging my defence and starring a copy would be served on the claimant and they have 28 days to respond or it would be stayed.

 

Today I received a letter from ARROW its dated the 28th of March but it was posted by them two weeks later so they have gone to the trouble of intentionally back dating it which seems odd. ( I will try to attach a copy but I'm working on an I,pad )

It says

Thank you for your letter and acknowledge your request for documatation pursuant to the consumer credit act 1974.

We do not accept that we are the creditor as envisaged by the above statute. However we are willing to assist in obtaining that which has been requested. We will now process your request for the documentation from the creditor and will revert in due corse.

They then go on to state all collection activities are suspended and have returned my £1 fee

 

Should I do anything at this stage , I like to be proactive I don't think ARROW can respond within the time scale the CCA request was sent on the 11th March

Thanks guys

[AndyOrch]

" We do not accept that we are the creditor as envisaged by the above statute. However we are willing to assist in obtaining that which has been requested. We will now process your request for the documentation from the creditor and will revert in due course.

 

They then go on to state all collection activities are suspended and have returned my £1 fee "

 

If there not the creditor then they can't make a claim in their name...wish they would decide what exactly they profess to be ( have a few ideas but wont type them here)

[Elliemygsd]

Why have they said that ,it seems to imply ' the timescales for the CCA request do not apply to us 'and they have gone to the effort of back dating the letter

[AndyOrch]

Makes no odds what they state what they do...you know what date you made it and also the timeframe involved...they are in default.

 

Next move is theirs...if they wish to proceed.

[Elliemygsd]

Ok Thanks Andy

I will wait and see what happens.