Transfer from IB JSA to ESA while on CWP

[tommy456]

Yes quite fast at processing the appointments for the WCA F2F interrogation in my area too Maximus seem to be more efficient than ATOS where, I think that the days of esa claimants being left alone for periods in excess of the 13week period deadline are all but gone in most areas since they started doing the devil's work, Which some will find is a good thing (those who clearly fit the criteria of the descriptors, and also demonstrate this)

 

But for the rest,maybe not so good as it will be less time waiting to be awarded zero points, and then have no money until the MR has been sorted out and their MR results received and accepted by the tribunal service, unless they claim JSA and possibly end up being sanctioned within the time it takes for the MR's to be processed by the DWP i bet they haven't gotten any faster, as it isn't in their or governments interest

[pfcpompeysarah]

I'm in the Portsmouth area, I am not sure who does the assessments there, I did do a work programme with Maximus who were taken over by Shaw Trust, and I know there was (not sure if still is) an ATOS assessment centre here... time will tell I suppose. I am also a bit worried as I had an extended period of sickness and at the end it says if you continue after 13 weeks and go to ESA then your 13 weeks are already done as you have used them up, but I went back into jobsearching for a month so not sure if that counts since there was a break in my sickness period???

[pfcpompeysarah]

I have already used up the EPS time and then went back to jobsearching on 14th Feb and they pretty much referred me to CWP where I am now (as of 26th Feb).... strangely I finished work programme during the EPS time and didn't have an exit interview or anything with them... but rushed onto CWP I was, hence current predicament. Think I am just going to go transfer to ESA as I am feeling really poorly with labyrinthitis and the placement they want me to go to involves physical activity like lifting etc, just hope that the 13 weeks on EPS don't count towards assessment time since I had a break in between sickness periods i.e. from 14th Feb til now.. as the EPS guidelines mention something about transferring to ESA and this 13 weeks of EPS being considered the assessment period?? Its all so confusing!!

[Lapsed Workaholic]

In your post of yesterday you said that your Provider raised no objections to you attending your signing on appointment at the Jobcentre. Jobcentre appointments and medical appointments take priority over any mandated activity arranged by CWP Providers. It would be helpful, and in your own interests, to be aware of any such appointments, and to notify your Provider promptly if and when they might clash with any activity that you might be mandated to participate in.

As you say, the activity that the MAN was issued for is now cancelled, it also means that a new MAN has to be made out and given to you for any subsequent activity, or similar activity at a future date.

When you called to correct your signing on appointment time you said the lady told you that she would try and rearrange the interview and would call you back. At which point you informed her of further appointments etc that you had to attend. She then suggested that you call her after your Jobcentre appointment. So far I can see nothing unreasonable in her actions, in fact it looks like she went out of her way to accommodate you considering the last minute notifications of appointments that you had thitherto not notified her of.

You did not say whether you called the Provider or not as suggested after your other appointments yesterday. You say that you presumed to know what would be discussed but you can't presume what is going to be said in advance of it being said. It is quite possible that, being aware or your circumstances or other appointments, they merely wished to make arrangements for an alternative date and time to suit you for the mandatory activity that was cancelled rather than go ahead and arrange activities only to be frustrated by more notifications from you of further appointments already committed to.

As for EPS and ESA, you appear to have exhausted one and be familiar with the procedures involved in going down that other route. If you genuinely believe that you qualify for ESA there is nothing to fear in applying for it.

[tommy456]

The 13wk deadline on ESA is a deadline /target for Maximus set by the Government , not a cutoff point for the people claiming ESA , In recent years those claiming ESA at the pre assessment rate,(same rate as JSA) had been waiting 6mths or longer for the F2F farce with ATOS running things,especially if you requested the F2F to be audio recorded and for a ground floor venue,

 

Obviously IBS wanted something done about that, You could can miss two signing days due to sickness without a sick note in a 12mth period, without being sanctioned on JSA , on top of this you may or it looks as if you can have another 12 -13 weeks off sick covered by sick note without having to claim esa In any 12month period so that's 15 weeks no sign on, then you could still close the JSA claim and claim esa at least until the F2F ,supported by Fit notes from GP ,

[antone]

I'm in the Portsmouth area, I am not sure who does the assessments there, I did do a work programme with Maximus who were taken over by Shaw Trust, and I know there was (not sure if still is) an ATOS assessment centre here... time will tell I suppose. I am also a bit worried as I had an extended period of sickness and at the end it says if you continue after 13 weeks and go to ESA then your 13 weeks are already done as you have used them up, but I went back into jobsearching for a month so not sure if that counts since there was a break in my sickness period???

 

What this means is that should you return to JSA following a period of claiming ESA, your 13 weeks of extended sickness will already have been used up - it doesn't automatically reset simply because you break your JSA claim to claim ESA instead. If it takes longer than 13 weeks for your ESA assessment to be arranged, your ESA claim will continue as long as you can supply sick notes from your doctor.

[pfcpompeysarah]

I think my confusion lies with this info on the EPS guidelines:

 

'If you volunteer to stay on JSA but then go on to claim, and are entitled to ESA, you will have the period during which you will receive the intial basic rate of ESA, known as the assessment phase, reduced by the length of time you have spent on an Extended Sickness Period'

 

So does that mean if I finished my EPS on 14th Feb and then now claim ESA tomorrow I would have an assessment a lot sooner or something because those 12 weeks would be taken into consideration (the wording is quite ambiguous) or would there still be a waiting time as usual? Or do they mean if you say had 8 weeks of sickness and then transferred over to ESA becasue you had no more sickness periods allowed the above would apply in that instance only?? Would rather a waiting time if honest to get me better before they probably tell me to sling my hook like they seem to do to every other poor person who applies!!

 

P.S Sorry if I am sounding a bit thick, to be honest reading all the info on their guidelines just confuses me more!!

[tommy456]

It in theory may mean that, but in practice no as after you start a claim for esa you have to wait for them to send you a ESA50 questionnaire then you have 4 weeks from the date you received it to complete and return it, possibly longer if you can show good reason , then this has to be processed and a F2F interrogation arranged, this can be re -arranged at least 1 time, their target set by IBS &co is 13weeks or less from the date you commenced the ESA claim to f2farce as said you will need fit notes from a doctor to cover this period

[antone]

It probably won't affect the date of your assessment at all, one way or the other.

 

ESA works like this:

 

• When you first claim, you are in the Assessment Phase. The original plan was that you should have your assessment within that time. That sort of fell by the wayside for a few years because of ATOS and their delays, but from what posters here are saying, the delays are no longer so bad.
  
• After the assessment, you would be either refused ESA, or placed in one of the entitlement groups: the Work Related Activity Group (WRAG) or the Support Group (SG)
  
• For those placed in the WRAG or the SG, this phase of the claim would begin from the start of week 13, regardless of when the assesssment was actually held. If your assessment was held after the first 13 weeks and you were awarded ESA, your extra payment would be backdated to begin in week 14 of the claim. If your assessment took place within the 13 weeks, you would have to wait until week 14 to receive the extra money.
  

Right, so, what does this mean for you? Well, any weeks you spent on your JSA EPS will count as weeks spent on the Assessment Phase of ESA. So if, for example, your EPS was 7 weeks long, then your time on the Assessment Phase of ESA would only be 6 weeks. If it turns out you are entitled to the WRAG or SG amounts, these would be awarded (and backdated if necessary) from week 7 of your ESA claim.

 

In all cases, ESA is paid at the assessment rate until the assessment is done. So this is really a technicality. It will work in your favour if you are awarded ESA after your assessment, and make no difference at all if you are not. But it won't likely result in an early medical.

[pfcpompeysarah]

Ah I get it, so it's only really relevant in terms of the backdated payments and how it affects them, crikey, its a blinking minefield all this isn't it.... ta so much for your responses, super helpful.

[ripples]

Antone just so that I can get this straight in my mind if someone has 13 weeks using fit notes on JSA then continues onto ESA and is awarded support group after 26 weeks of fit notes then the 13 weeks on JSA extended sickness counts as the assessment period and back pay is due for the remaining 13 weeks so that the whole continuous period fit notes are submitted from JSA to the transfer to ESA is treated as one?

[antone]

Antone just so that I can get this straight in my mind if someone has 13 weeks using fit notes on JSA then continues onto ESA and is awarded support group after 26 weeks of fit notes then the 13 weeks on JSA extended sickness counts as the assessment period and back pay is due for the remaining 13 weeks so that the whole continuous period fit notes are submitted from JSA to the transfer to ESA is treated as one?

 

Yes. An EPS on JSA is, in effect, you agreeing to forego your potential ESA entitlement for that period. So if your EPS runs out after 13 weeks and you move (with no break in your claim period) to ESA, the 13 weeks you were on the EPS will count as the ESA Assessment Phase.

 

So you are correct. If you spend 13 weeks on an EPS and then 13 weeks on ESA waiting for a medical, any WRAG or SG award will be backdated to day 1 of your ESA claim.

 

It makes sense in a strange sort of way. The government wants people to stay on JSA because they can be hassled and harassed more than ESA claimants, and because it looks better for their figures. Yet if you have sick notes, you normally could claim ESA. If you choose not to, you are not penalised for doing what the government wanted you to do. If this provision did not exist, there would be no reason at all to accept an EPS when you had potential ESA entitlement. With the provision, you can avoid the hassle of switching to a new benefit with the delays in processing and breaks in payment that can happen if you believe that your condition will not last longer than 13 weeks.

[ripples]

Thank you for that antone it's been a great help

[citizenB]

TJ rodgers, you have reported a post - did you mean to post your comment on the thread ?

[Tj rodgers]

TJ rodgers, you have reported a post - did you mean to post your comment on the thread ?

 

yes sorry

[jason2723637]

I have already used up the EPS time and then went back to jobsearching on 14th Feb and they pretty much referred me to CWP where I am now (as of 26th Feb).... strangely I finished work programme during the EPS time and didn't have an exit interview or anything with them... but rushed onto CWP I was, hence current predicament. Think I am just going to go transfer to ESA as I am feeling really poorly with labyrinthitis and the placement they want me to go to involves physical activity like lifting etc, just hope that the 13 weeks on EPS don't count towards assessment time since I had a break in between sickness periods i.e. from 14th Feb til now.. as the EPS guidelines mention something about transferring to ESA and this 13 weeks of EPS being considered the assessment period?? Its all so confusing!!

 

 

is what I thought I read to about EPS counting towards the 13 weeks of assessment period im not aware about if the break period ie from 14th Feb is significant here ie if there is a minimum break period (like 12 weeks) also remember the connection between EPS and ESA assessment period is more in theory if applicable as in practice to get to the WCA can take much longer then 13 weeks anyway (supposedly depending on how busy things are in your area)

 

also is this the first time you have applied for ESA? just remember about any supporting evidence like GP letter is relevant to the descriptors (you must score at least 15 points to be put in the ESA WRAG)

[pfcpompeysarah]

Hi

 

Can anyone please tell me if there is a delay between making the phone call to sign off JSA and it showing on their system??

 

I am transferring to ESA and called them yesterday, the JSA number first, and they said last date of JSA claim would be 13/03/16, and that I could start ESA claim for 14/03/16, so I phoned them next and started my claim. I was meant to have a job search session at my community work placement provider today at 10 and given I had signed off I gave them a courtesy call and said I would not be attending and told them the reason why and all seemed okay, then they called me back lunchtime and said they'd spoken to my work coach at the JC and she said there was no record of me signing off and that the CWP provider would be sending me out a new appt for 7.45am on 17/03/16, which is laughable as I am a single mum and would love to know where I can find a childminder at short notice to start at 7am, which pretty much goes against my JSA agreement anyway... I think they are just being spiteful as they were trying to hurry me into a placement and I put them off with a med appt and then this ESA claim has started up.

 

I did have a similar problem when I had an EPS recently whereby the WP provider tried to raise a doubt because my sicknote wasn't on the system yet but I was covered by the dates when it was put on ... but I have never signed off JSA before so not sure what the process involves and the time limits etc.

 

Any info welcome...ta x

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I've merged your threads. It's better to stick to one for the same topic.

 

HB

[pfcpompeysarah]

Thanks Honeybee13, bit clueless when it comes to all this forum malarkey

[Bazooka Boo]

Hello pfcpompeysarah, I feel for you I really do, having fought these lot at Wingfield House and Portsmouth JCP for over three years and highlighting their errors in law, expect to be in it for the long haul.

 

Maximus now do the flawed WCA at Wingfield house, ATOS do the PIP interrogations.

 

Get onto Flick Drummond, either via email or in writing, and make her aware of the attitude of her local JCP and failing to adhere to your JSA agreement.

 

Don't be surprised if she ignores you like she does me, she voted for the £30 a week cut for new ESA claimants, so we all know just who she cares about, witch.

[antone]

It can take a few days from notifying someone at the Jobcentre that you wish to close your claim to the computer systems being updated. The staff at the actual Jobcentre can't "press the button" to close the claim, what they need to do is notify their colleagues in the processing centre ("Benefit Centre") that the claim has ended, and the staff there do the actual closing.

 

So notification is sent - perhaps by email or another electronic "template", and that can sit around in the general "stuff to do" pile for a couple of days. Once the processor closes the claim it will be at least the following day before it shows up as fully closed, as there is an automated overnight run that must take place. After that, the matter will be passed to the New Claims team at ESA, who will then begin the process of setting up your ESA claim. So I'd not be at all concerned that the claim does not yet show up as closed: your intention to do so should be noted on their system.

 

If it gets to the end of the week and they're still telling you that the JSA claim remains live, then I'd start asking them to investigate.

[pfcpompeysarah]

Thanks, guys, what a nightmare... so I am going to phone up and just doublecheck but I don't have to attend the new appt on Thursday surely do I?? She was so gloating on the phone about the new time, and knowing it wasn't a time I could make with a young child .. grrrr, annoying too as I only called them as a courtesy despite having signed off. By the sounds of it, my area looks like a fun place to have an ESA claim.. NOT.. the dreaded Maximus, I used to do my work programme with them, can't get away from them eh!!

[antone]

The appointment on Thursday 17th is related to your JSA claim, yes? If so, don't attend. You have stated that you no longer wish to claim JSA, and you are no longer bound to follow its rules. If they try to tell you (as they sometimes do) that "ESA claimants have to do the Work Programme too", you just need to point out that this does not apply to ESA claimants in the Assessment Phase.

[pfcpompeysarah]

Thanks Antone, don't worry, I have no intention of attending and will take great pleasure in telling them that. I spoke to JC+ line this morning who confirmed I had signed off and am now on claim for ESA, and I know this is just the provider trying to pull a fast one, I had already seen some info saying during assessment phase there was no need to attend appts so I will be MORE than happy to tell them that in a moment when I call.

 

Ta for your advice, its VERY much appreciated.

[pfcpompeysarah]

Hi

 

Can anyone clear up my confusion about waiting days and if they apply to me if changing from IB JSA to IB ESA, with no breaks in the dates of claim, i.e. signed off JSA 13/3 and onto ESA on 14/3, I saw something online and am now wondering whether I will end up not being paid for some of the time?? Confusion??? :???: