John Lewis tantrum toddler: Mother and child asked to leave : Was store right?

[citizenB]

I find this story quite amusing. The Mother has said she was made to feel like a rubbish mum - but instead of a quiet word of complaint to the Manager/Head office - she rushes off to the Newspaper ?

 

 

 

A woman has said she was made to feel like a "rubbish mum" after she was thrown out of John Lewis because her 16-month-old daughter threw a tantrum. The Trafford Centre store has since apologised, but were they right or wrong to ask her to leave?

 

As you look down at your screaming, red-faced child, the last thing you are probably thinking about is whether you are upsetting your fellow shoppers.

 

Yet this is presumably what was was going through the mind of one "over-zealous" member of staff at the John Lewis store in the Trafford Centre when they asked mum Lindsay Robinson to leave the shop after "receiving a complaint".

 

The 36-year-old told the Manchester Evening News her 16-month-old daughter was making her discontent loudly known when an employee from menswear approached her and said: "You will have to leave".

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35753732

 

 

Was the store right to ask the Mother and child to leave ?

[citizenB]

IMHO, the Mother herself should have chosen to go to a quieter place. I doubt very much the "subtext" is that the woman was a rubbish Mother, just that she personally should have dealt with it and removed the child to a quieter place.

 

As pointed out in the article, you cannot let children dictate your life - but at the same time you cant allow them to ruin other people's day.

 

There is nothing worse than listening to the "I wants", "I'm tired/bored" moans from youngsters whilst shopping.

 

I only ever took my Son shopping with me when it was for items that HE needed.

[Nystagmite]

Why, if your child was screaming, (regardless of why) would you carry on taking them shopping? Not all of us, including me, really appreciate having to listen to someone screaming. It's loud and is quite painful, physically.

 

If I was the mother, I would have left. Partly out of embarrassment.

[theoldrouge]

wish wetherspoons would adopt the same policy:-)

[hightail]

I don't think you people understand. Shopping with children is really difficult these days. You have to trail round shopping centres with a huge all terrain buggy - empty and blocking walkways while your toddler is running riot. Sometimes you even have to look up from texting because all the selfish buggers without children have failed to take responsibility for yours and you may actually have to take some notice of it. The only respite is to chill out in a restaurant where you can give full concentration to your smartphone while your little darling puts everyone else off their food.

[mmfhater]

I can't believe some of these answers

 

My son who is 6 screams and has tantrums if he doesn't get his own way and they way some people look at us is a joke if we never took him anywhere we would never go out

 

People who comment about him normally received a short sharp answer or a lot of verbal off me as little do they realise he is on the autism spectrum but he is not fully diagnosed

[Nystagmite]

My brother and I are autistic too. My parents still didn't allow us to run around and scream. It's also unfair on the child to force them to say in that situation if it's clearly causing them distress.

[Guest]

huge all terrain buggy - .

4 x 4's

[citizenB]

wish wetherspoons would adopt the same policy:-)

 

Indeed, and other "child friendly" restaurants. It scares the hell out of me to see children rushing around whilst staff are trying to take loaded plates to tables.

[labrat]

Why, if your child was screaming, (regardless of why) would you carry on taking them shopping? Not all of us, including me, really appreciate having to listen to someone screaming. It's loud and is quite painful, physically.

 

If I was the mother, I would have left. Partly out of embarrassment.

 

I live in this example so i have to disagree

 

i have two children with autism, one is ok shopping although can complain all the way around

 

the youngest however is severely autistic, her routine has to be followed to the point that we have to go in each shop in a certain order

when we are in the shop we have to travel up and down each isle in an exact order

 

anything out of this order ensures kicking, screaming, headbanging, throwing

 

we HAVE to take her shopping as she is so tricky to handle that many family members are reluctant to take her

 

we often get looks and comments from others, including comments about "how kids like that shouldn't exist"

We struggle to do simple things like shopping, dread changes such as holidays

 

in short we end up living fairly reclusivly because we have to

 

We have been asked to leave somewhere before when we were eating out "because someone couldn't hear the football" which didn't go down well

 

We always carry autism awareness cards now and if anyone came up to us to ask us to leave i have to admit i would hand them one of the cards, remind them of the disability act and to inform them to put up and shut up

[postmn]

I live in this example so i have to disagree

 

i have two children with autism, one is ok shopping although can complain all the way around

 

the youngest however is severely autistic, her routine has to be followed to the point that we have to go in each shop in a certain order

when we are in the shop we have to travel up and down each isle in an exact order

 

anything out of this order ensures kicking, screaming, headbanging, throwing

 

we HAVE to take her shopping as she is so tricky to handle that many family members are reluctant to take her

 

we often get looks and comments from others, including comments about "how kids like that shouldn't exist"

We struggle to do simple things like shopping, dread changes such as holidays

 

in short we end up living fairly reclusivly because we have to

 

We have been asked to leave somewhere before when we were eating out "because someone couldn't hear the football" which didn't go down well

 

We always carry autism awareness cards now and if anyone came up to us to ask us to leave i have to admit i would hand them one of the cards, remind them of the disability act and to inform them to put up and shut up

so what you are saying is your entitilment is far more importent that the rest of the restarant . there has to be a middle way

[labrat]

im not saying that im more entitled than anyone

 

what i am saying is that people have to realize that their entitlement isnt more important than others

 

we have a hard enough time getting chance to have a nice time out without someone demanding that that their football is more important than a rare chance at a family day out

 

or that people demand that their shopping is done in silence and have no intention of realising that people have disabilities which dont show in some disfigurement

[hightail]

There's a difference though between a child with a disability and parents doing their best to have a day out and the hoards of ill behaved brats with indifferent parents. It isn't the behaviour of the child which annoys in the vast majority of cases, it's the parents ability to ignore it or deliberately shifting the problem onto others. I've been sat in an eatery where parents have told their monsters to 'go and run around over there' so they could eat and drink in peace - over there was running round and round tables of other diners. Three tables had ordered but left, us included.

[labrat]

There's a difference though between a child with a disability and parents doing their best to have a day out and the hoards of ill behaved brats with indifferent parents. It isn't the behaviour of the child which annoys in the vast majority of cases, it's the parents ability to ignore it or deliberately shifting the problem onto others. I've been sat in an eatery where parents have told their monsters to 'go and run around over there' so they could eat and drink in peace - over there was running round and round tables of other diners. Three tables had ordered but left, us included.

 

now that i wouldn't agree with in any location

 

only place we ever eat out and let the kids run around at is brewers fayre, and we sit in the kids play area for that

unfortunatly our youngest still cant join in as although shes nearly four shes still non-verbal and cant walk properly

[Nystagmite]

I'm Autistic too. I also have serious hearing difficulties, which as well as not being able to process sound properly, I can go non-verbal and get migraine if it gets too loud. Is it really fair on your child and other shoppers to drag them around screaming? There's obviously something not right if they're kicking and screaming.

 

No-one is suggesting that their shopping is done in silence. We're asking that you think of other people too. It's not just about you.

[think about it]

With our little one we've always just removed ourselves from the situation. It's very challenging to deal with a child who is 'going nuclear' but just like everyone else has said, you have to remember that you're the parent and that you're the one in control.

 

(this is obviously different in cases where the child is autistic - but that's not what this thread is about, it's about a toddler who was having a tantrum)

 

It certainly wouldn't be the first time that one of us has taken the little one out of the situation, used distraction and a few firm words to bring things back under some sort of control and gone back to what we were doing. It's not fair on anyone: parent, child, bystander, fellow shopper/diner/passenger to simply ignore it and carry on. That said, there also needs to be some understanding from others that the calming process isn't immediate and may take a few minutes.

 

It's all another 'let's bash a shop bandwagon' to be fair - in a couple of weeks someone will have looked funnily at a customer in argos/asda/m&s (delete as appropriate) and the social media "I'm offended / that's discusting (sic)" crew will descend on to twitter and facebook in the hope of a £5 gift voucher...

[labrat]

I'm Autistic too. I also have serious hearing difficulties, which as well as not being able to process sound properly, I can go non-verbal and get migraine if it gets too loud. Is it really fair on your child and other shoppers to drag them around screaming? There's obviously something not right if they're kicking and screaming.

 

No-one is suggesting that their shopping is done in silence. We're asking that you think of other people too. It's not just about you.

 

mostly with ours its due to being out of routine...

 

if im honest i would love to remove them from the situation but it means not getting the shopping done at all

 

on the bright side of having an autistic child ive looked at myself again and got my aspergers diagnosis so theres some good in every storm

 

edit: definatly agree with the band wagon thing by the way

[citizenB]

I do have friends with a child who is at the top end of the autistic spectrum and appreciate the problems that those parents are faced with. It is my understanding however, that putting a child who suffers from this into a situation such as shopping in brightly lit and crowded stores only heightens the child's anxieties !

[Nystagmite]

I do remember once removing myself from a situation knowing there was a chance I was either going to have a meltdown or it was just going to get so loud (too many noises and it just goes into one loud horrible noise). My so-called support worker then just gave me a lecture. It's one of those things where I've got no choice. Most friends of mine are aware and I do remember saying at least once "if you can't find me, I'll be outside because it's too loud".

[citizenB]

I do notice however that no one has made any alternative suggestions which the poll allows for ?

[think about it]

I do notice however that no one has made any alternative suggestions which the poll allows for ?

 

I don't see/have the option to do that...

[labrat]

we tend to try and do our shopping weekday mornings when its less busy.

we tried having it delivered a few times but found that it was so unreliable when it came to items missing/wrong/extra

examples include ordering 200g of diced beef at £3 and being sent a £17 beef joint - which it took alot of arguing not to pay for

missing all the frozen items on one order

and at one point receaving 3 bags of halloween candy + 300 cigarettes + 2 bottles of vodka we hadn't ordered

 

trying at moment to try easing them into busy arebas to gradually get them used to it, trying to find somewhere with enough to distract them so they dont notice how busy it is but with enough quiet space for them to calm down if needed

going to try alton towers - i KNOW it sounds mad BUT

 

1) there is Cbeebies land to distract them

2) its not going to be that busy this time of year

3) theres the gardens for calm down

4) theres familiar things such as KFC in there

5) the sealife part is going to be an absoloute winner

6) its close enough to home if theres issues

7) we go down south for easter holidays we want to know if they might handle legoland

[citizenB]

I don't see/have the option to do that...

 

 

Hmm, yes, I have just noticed that whilst the option is there, you would need to use that option, but post suggestions within the thread !

[hightail]

As we don't know what the store actually did it's a bit difficult to suggest something different. All we have is a second hand version of the mother's account. We have no idea how long it had been going on, how much of the store had been affected, what efforts the mother was (or wasn't) making to deal with the situation etc. etc. etc. I doubt store staff had rushed to ask them to leave at the first hint of the tantrum.

[tobyjugg2]

I do notice however that no one has made any alternative suggestions which the poll allows for ?

 

Not sure how you could define other suggestions that would be relevant.

 

Noisy children can be for many reasons, medical, child. parent, situation, upbringing, whats already happened that day and a million others.

 

The only things we can judge on is

Should the shop manage the environment for the majority of its customers? - The answer for me can only be a resounding YES.

 

Whether the parent or child need help/locking up/or just a little quiet time to calm down and get control - is a far more complex issue.