Pre-Action Protocol letter from PRA Group - Advice please

[NoneProvided]

I received a letter from PRA Group recently. It states:

 

 

=================================

 

 

We write further to the above and to inform you that your account has now been transferred to the investigations and litigation department.

 

 

This is a letter before claim as required by the Practice direction on Pre-Action protocols, to give you notice of PRA Group's intention to issue court proceedings against you.

 

 

You should consider the contents of this letter carefully and seek legal advice or alternatively contact one of the free agencies detailed on the enclosed document.

 

 

We specifically refer to paragraph 4 of the Practice Direction and set out in that paragraph are the courts powers to impose sanctions for failure to comply with the practice direction.

 

 

You will recall that you entered a written agreement numbered xxxx on or around xx/xx/2006 with Varde Experto (The creditor). The agreement was regulated by the consumer credit act 1974. The agreement obliged you to make payments, however, in breach of the agreement you failed to make thos payments and are now in breach of the agreement.

 

 

By a notice of default the creditor required you to remedy the breach within the prescribed period and gave notice that, in default of so doing, you would be liable to pay the monies due and owing.

 

 

However, you did not remedy the specified breach within the prescribed period and you then became liable to pay the creditor the sum of £xxxx

 

 

By an assignment in writing dated xx/xx/2012, the creditor assigned the debt to PRA group. Then by notice in writing the creditor and PRA group wrote to you to notify you of the assignment.

 

 

PRA group has made further written and oral requests for payment of the sums but you have not paid the sum due and owing.

 

 

If after considering this letter you take the view that you do not owe £xxxx then we look forward to receiving your reasons why you take that view plus supporting documentation.

 

 

We do not presently envisage that expert evidence will be needed in this claim.

 

 

This letter should be treated as an invitation to refer this dispute to mediation or some other form of alternative dispute resolution (ADR).

 

 

In addition this letter triggers certain time limits that effect you:

 

 

1. You are expected to acknowledge and answer this latter before claim by xx/03/2016.

2. You are expected to respond to the invitation to refer this matter to ADR by xx/03/2016.

 

 

We look forward to receiving your letter in reply, responding to the claims made against you and / or setting out your proposals for settlement / payment. We are prepared to discuss repayment options if this assists you.

 

 

If we do not hear from you within the above time limits then court proceedings will be issued against you which may increase your liability for interest and costs.

 

 

If you have any difficulty in complying with the above limits please explain the problem to us as soon as possible and we will consider a reasonable request for extension.

 

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Litigation manager

PRA Group (UK) Ltd.

 

 

=================================

 

 

Information:

I have never spoken to PRA group, or acknowledged any previous letter.

 

 

The original credit card account was opened in 2006. I do not recall the original provider, but it was not Vadre Experto.

 

 

The default occurred in 2010. It is therefore due to drop off by the end of this year (two defaults have already dropped off my file, and my score is starting to improve - I'm well aware of my past mistakes and errors in judgement).

 

 

The amount owed is less than £2000.

 

 

Should I:

 

 

A) Write to them by recorded / special delivery, asking to see a true copy of the agreement they refer to, providing them with a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee (if the price has changed, please advise). Also ask for a certified copy of the original default notice, and a deed of assignment from when the debt was sold on (I do not have any of the above at this point). I believe I can give them 28 days to supply this?

 

 

B) Ignore the letter above, and do it if / when I receive a claim form from the court?

 

 

C) something else.

 

 

I don't know whether to ignore them, try and draw it out until the default drops off my credit file, speak to an actual solicitor.

 

 

Thanks in advance for your advice.

[citizenB]

When is this going to drop off your file ?

 

Some will say it is 6 years from the original Default marker date which would have been applied to your credit file.

 

Previously it was from the date when a payment became due and missed.. you would then add a couple of months to that in order for them to issue any statutory notices/demands.

 

I would say that is very likely that they have become aware of the time ticking down to Statute Bar date and are now hoping to perhaps scare you into paying or issuing a claim against you before the date arrives.

 

Were you ever sent a default notice or Notice of Assignment ?

 

I think perhaps sending a CCA request might be a good idea.

[NoneProvided]

If we go from 6 years since the original default date, or say 6 years and 2 months, it would still have dropped off my file by the end of 2016.

 

 

I don't recall ever receiving a default notice - as it has been passed around a few times, I would struggle to remember who the original lender was at this point!

 

 

A lot of the PPI claims etc relate to the important date of April 2007 - whilst I'm not looking to get any PPI back etc (honestly don't know if I even had it), is there any chance the age of the credit card could also be used in my favour?

[AndyOrch]

Hi NoneProvided and Welcome to CAG

 

Perhaps if you could flesh out a little detail of the actual debt itself and your reasons for default/dispute?

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Thread moved to the appropriate forum.

[martin2006]

varde experto/experto credite and pra are all dca's so looks like a fishing letter dressed up as some legal threat.

 

CCA them, varde buy old MBNA card debts

[silverfox1961]

Hi,

If you haven't sent a CCA request for this account, I suggest that you do so. As the original account is from 2006, if court action were to be taken, they would need to supply this agreement to the courts. In the meantime, PRA could send you a copy of the agreement but it doesn't have to be a signed copy as they are allowed to do this so I would be asking them to state that if they were to take court action, have they a copy of the original agreement that they would rely on. The chances of them actually having a signed agreement is very slim.

 

It would also be worth mentioning the fact that you do not recognise the creditor. Also, head any letter sent to them, "I acknowledge no debt to you nor any company you claim to represent."

 

As this is now part of a Pre Action Protocol, it is worth responding.

 

Having said all that, just because PRA are sending this letter out doesn't mean they will actually follow through but you can't be certain.

 

Once you find out who the original creditor is, you could send them a SAR to ascertain what charges and/or PPI has been added to bump this alleged debt up.

 

There are some template style letters in the library to help you get started.

[NoneProvided]

Thanks for the swift responses. I have added to your template, would this be sufficient:

"I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request; the provisions of s78(6)a will apply.

**If the copy of the credit agreement you wish to provide at this time is not signed, please advise whether a signed copy would be relied upon should this matter result in court action.**

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request...."

Andy - debt is likely an MBNA or MINT credit card. Not sure if default is legit or not. It is possibly legit, I have a CCJ with Lloyds Bank Loan from a similar time which I am currently paying off.

[citizenB]

yes, your addition is fine.

[NoneProvided]

having read silver foxes note about not recognizing PRA group, would this be worth while, or should I stick to the addition in post 7?

"If the copy of the credit agreement you wish to provide at this time is not signed, please advise whether a signed copy would be relied upon should this matter result in court action. It should be noted that I do not recognise the name PRA Group (UK) Ltd, and do not recall ever receiving any correspondence from you prior to your letter dated xx March 2016.

 

 

Therefore I also request you provide me with a signed true and certified copy of the original default notice, and any deed of assignment relevant to this case."

Edited March 8, 2016 by NoneProvided

[martin2006]

as they are quoting PAP, you might want to include a CPR 31;14

[AndyOrch]

A section 78 request cant ask for anything other than the agreement T&Cs and snap shot statement......just use our standard template....dont overcomplicate it.

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

as they are quoting PAP, you might want to include a CPR 31;14

 

Not applicable...no litigation in progress.

[NoneProvided]

A section 78 request cant ask for anything other than the agreement T&Cs and snap shot statement......just use our standard template....dont overcomplicate it.

 

Andy

 

 

Thanks Andy - I'll stick with the request for the agreement. I'm not going to send this until next week - I have until the end of next week to respond, so will send it next Wednesday via special delivery. I'll keep you all posted on what their reply is, if any.

[dx100uk]

varde experto/experto credite and pra are all the same DCA

 

 

its a phishing letter trying to get you to respond.

 

 

the letter you have is simply the new form of DCA letters they must use

after the changes made by the FCA on debt collection recently.

 

 

personally, if this doesn't show on your credit file

and is donkey's years old

then i'd not send anything.

[martin2006]

 

 

personally, if this doesn't show on your credit file

and is donkey's years old

then i'd not send anything.

 

Its showing as a default and due to drop off by end of 2016

[Sidewinder]

From my own experience, LBCs from Varde/PRA are very often followed up with a Claim - even if they may have to discontinue in the event of a viable defence

 

Best get the CCA request in - at least put them on notice that you know where you stand.

[NoneProvided]

I have received a reply:

 

 

Original Creditor: ABC Ltd

Ref: XYZ

Outstanding Balance: £xxx

 

 

Request for Copy Of Agreement

Dear Mr XXXXXX

 

 

I am in receipt of your correspondence in relation to the above and have requested the required information.

 

 

I have also enclosed your payment of £1 as this was not required to carry out the request.

 

 

We will contact you to provide an update as soon as possible but if you have any questions please telephone us on 0800... where an advisor will be able to assist you.

 

 

Yours Sincerely,

 

 

Chief Operating Officer

PRA Group

 

 

 

 

===================

 

 

I'll keep you updated as soon as I hear from them again, or if this drops off my report as expected towards the end of the year.

[silverfox1961]

if you have any questions please telephone us on 0800... where an advisor will be able to assist you.

 

I'm sure you will be doing that...NOT!

 

If they are past the 12+2 days for compliance, not much they can do. While no agreement is forthcoming, the account is in dispute and all they can do is ask for payment. Be prepared for them to flog it on to the next bottom feeder to have a go.

[martin2006]

The problem here and a few seem to be doing this now, is that the request is not legally binding if they refuse and return payment.

Send them the letter again with a covering letter quoting the legislation that payment is required and also copy the same to the OC letting them know that there dca is refusing to comply with a legal request by returning the £1.

Having done the above you can then use this refusal as part any defence.

 

They are of course quoting rubbish that no payment is required, if thats in writing, keep it safe.

[renegadeimp]

If they refuse and return payment, then they have failed to comply with the legal request. Thats the DCA's problem. Not the debtors. As long as proof was sent, and he has the reply, id LOVE them to try court action while in default.

[brassnecked]

If they refuse and return payment, then they have failed to comply with the legal request. Thats the DCA's problem. Not the debtors. As long as proof was sent, and he has the reply, id LOVE them to try court action while in default.

They would get a severe spanking in court.

[iwannaclearmydebts]

Hi Noneprovided,

 

Has anything be heard from PRA since your CCA request?

 

All the best

 

iwcmd.

[NoneProvided]

Hi Noneprovided,

 

Has anything be heard from PRA since your CCA request?

 

All the best

 

iwcmd.

 

 

Apologies for the very delayed response! I have now waited more than long enough, and have heard absolutely nothing from them. As it isn't really effecting me, I am simply going to leave this to drop off my credit report in a few months time.

 

 

There is another default on my credit report that I do not believe should be there - it is Lowell, who I believe pick up a lot of O2 debt, and I remember having a dispute with them when I moved my mobile phone contract away from them to EE

approximately 3 years ago. I am going to use the same letter and a new postal order to start disputing this / attempt to have it removed from my file. I will start a new thread when I get round to doing that, and keep you updated with the progress.

[AndyOrch]

CCA requests are not applicable to mobile agreements.

 

Andy

[NoneProvided]

Spoke to soon - Received a letter yesterday, dated 19/04:

 

Dear NoneProvided,

 

I refer to your request for copy documentation regarding

 

We enclose docs received to date and are awaiting further documentation to complete your request.

 

If you have any questions blah blah blah, please call....

 

All that was attached is a very bad copy of something that takes about half a piece of A4.

This is far too long between my request and receiving the info, right?