Used car dealer won't give full refund of deposit

[P3rks]

Hello All, I'll try and keep this short.

 

Put a £200 deposit down on a used car from an independent dealer, part of the sale terms were 12 months MOT, Cambelt, waterpump, service and tracking - this was noted on the receipt. I verbally advised I needed the car for Friday 1st (today). To add the only fault on the car was it pulled to the left and this was made known, hence the tracking.

 

Car was MOT'd yesterday (failed on rear brakes binding) and tracking was sorted, he called me to say the car was better but still pulled to the left and advised another test drive before they went ahead with the rest of the work. I test drove last night and it still pulled but not as bad, the salesman advised to sort the brakes first as they needed doing for the re-test anyway and they may fix the issue.

 

This morning I get a phone call to say the brakes are sorted but the car still pulls. He isn't prepared to look at the issue further due to costs and so I advised I no longer want the car (for the record I'd have bought the car tonight if issues had been rectified).

 

The dealer will only refund £100 of my £200 deposit as he's done some work already. I believe I'm entitled to a full refund as the terms of sale was to sort the tracking and it's still pulling to the left. But where do I actually stand? Do I take my £100 and run, or fight for the full amount?

[oddjobbob]

fight for the full amount.

 

 

not your problem if it cant be fixed.

 

 

you may find that swapping the front tyres from side to side will sort it out, as they have prob worn unevenly due to tracking.

[P3rks]

Well, I believe that's been tried already. I've had a good poke around the car myself and nothing looks amiss other than a very recent NS driveshaft.

 

Either way, the deals off.

 

Am I legally obliged a full refund? I don't want to start chasing if I risk getting nothing back.

[oddjobbob]

A full refund

 

 

He is trying to give you a car that is dangerous (ie pulls to the left)

 

 

if you paid by credit card do a chargeback

[Conniff]

Sounds more like a caliper sticking and if that is the case it will only get worse.

 

 

By letter only either taken by hand, posted recorded or email tell him he has broken the contract between buyer and seller and you want a full refund and will be around to collect it on Monday.

 

 

If he continues refusal, then issue a court summons, https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome An upfront small fee for you but you include it in your claim.

Don't be afraid of these con men, but then again if you won't go to court, then don't threaten it.

 

 

How did you pay the deposit ?

[oddjobbob]

Mm...probably worse than a caliper as the drag from it being stuck would show up on a brake test at MOT (although possibly not fail) If its not the tyres it's probably had a whack and the whole geometry is out.

 

 

Walk away...

[heliosuk]

No, No,No.

 

 

Tracking will not cause a car to pull either way.

 

 

You can have a car which does not pull, set the tracking to very extremes and it still will not pull or drift.

 

 

Invariably it's tyre concentricity, caster/camber angles and the biggest culprit on modern day vehicles rear end misalignment and subframe position. Pull drift on a vehicle is determined by the rear end cross toe angle and wheel base alignment which determines the thrust angle of the car. Front toe has zero effect.

[Hammy1962]

Yes, but it's much easier to say a Caliper was sticking..................................

 

That's what you get when people that don't fix cars attempt an internet diagnosis.

 

H

[P3rks]

Thanks for the replies guys.

 

I've been away all weekend and not had chance to follow this up. I'll be calling him today to ask for a full refund then I'll send an e-mail.

 

My only concern is the receipt says 'tracking' where as he has allegedly performed a 'tracking' - where does this put me? I'm concerned the courts may see it as he's forfiled his side of the deal? Or could this be put down to terminology differences?

[P3rks]

Bit of an update - The dealer just called me.. As it turns out the brakes which were meant to have been done re-failed the MOT and the n/s one was gripping. The brakes are still binding but the dealer seems to think this'll be the issue if he fixes them.

 

Sounds to me like they did f all work on the car and were fobbing me off the first time around.

 

I told the dealer I've found a replacement car now as the deal was called off on Friday and I want a full deposit. He will still only meet me half way. I told him i'll check my rights and drop him an e-mail.

 

Thoughts?

[SabreSheep]

"Sounds more like a caliper sticking and if that is the case it will only get worse."

 

Sounds like the internet diagnosis was not too far form the mark then

[P3rks]

FYI - I did some research and found a few things in The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 which clearly state he was in breach of contract. Sent the dealer an e-mail stating my rights.. Bingo.. Deposit on it's way to me.

[Ed Gasket]

No, No,No.

 

 

Tracking will not cause a car to pull either way.

 

 

 

Yes it most certainly can. It happened to me. Was badly tracked by an incompetent garage and was pulling severely to the left. I undid the tie rod and wound it back to how it was originally (approximately) and hey presto, no more pulling.

[BankFodder]

Yes, but it's much easier to say a Caliper was sticking..................................

 

That's what you get when people that don't fix cars attempt an internet diagnosis.

 

H

 

 

 

Bit of an update - The dealer just called me.. As it turns out the brakes which were meant to have been done re-failed the MOT and the n/s one was gripping. The brakes are still binding but the dealer seems to think this'll be the issue if he fixes them.

 

 

Yes - it sounds as if it must have been a caliper sticking. Internet diagnosis can be very helpful as a guide to problems.

 

Unfortunately, some people who have been in the industry at the pointy end for 30 years, probably haven't appreciated this yet because they haven't come to terms with the internet. Younger people will have been brought up with it and will be more open to its possibilities.

 

I see that even in the Health Service, medical staff are recognising that the internet is a great tool for helping people understand or recognise their own ailments.

 

In terms of recovering your deposit, I think that you are entitled to recover all of it. The car was clearly an MOT fail. Hopefully he will have in in legal and saleable condition for the next purchaser.

[heliosuk]

Yes it most certainly can. It happened to me. Was badly tracked by an incompetent garage and was pulling severely to the left. I undid the tie rod and wound it back to how it was originally (approximately) and hey presto, no more pulling.

 

 

Sorry, it won't all it will do is alter the position of the steering wheel and if out cause the tyre to scrub. Pull drift is determined by the thrust angle of the car, tyre conicity and PRAT (Ply residual angle torque), caster and camber angles. Tracking has no effect whatsoever.

[dx100uk]

how did you pay for the deposit please?

 

 

dx

[neil6534]

one final thought, you can also advise the dealer that you will now take the car to another company to fix any problems and then send them the invoice - problem with this is that you will have to chase and chase and chase the dealer to get the money back

[P3rks]

the only resolution you should get is a total like for like replacement or total cancellation of the contract and refund of your £2000 (you may be able to push for interest on this also).

you've given the dealer more than 3 times to rectify the problem/s and they have not done so and thats more than enough to cancel the contract

you can also write in and complain to finance company in detail just like you did here and cancel threaten to cancel the contract

in all cases state that you have lost faith in the dealer and their ability to rectify the faults, these are not fair ware and tear and should not be happening on a new car

 

Thanks for the response. I mentioned like for like or cancellation of contract but in the interest of once bitten, twice shy with my current model; negotiation started on a more substantial car.

I have already complained to Seat UK and VWFS (on Wednesday). Seat are calling me Monday to discuss and VWFS stated 8 weeks to 'look into it' - I received a letter today from the Finance company saying that it's between Seat and the Dealer and all they can do is look into it and assist (basically).

In all cases since my original complaint I have mentioned I have lost faith in the car and in their competence to rectify the issues.

 

one final thought, you can also advise the dealer that you will now take the car to another company to fix any problems and then send them the invoice - problem with this is that you will have to chase and chase and chase the dealer to get the money back

 

I think the chance of that has passed - I'm in month 5 and believe I have until month 6 to reject.

 

 

 

Anyway, I've had another phone call with the dealer, basically it's that deal which will actually cost me £4,000+ extra (original deposit lost and new £2,000 deposit) or I reject. When I said it looks like I will have to reject, they said it's not that easy and good luck! They essentially told me to bring it on.

 

So, looks like I'm going down the rejection route. Where do I go from here? Any advice welcome.

[neil6534]

others will correct me if i am wrong, but your actual contract is with whomever provided the finance.....and secondly i would still argue that you can reject without cost, plus get your money back as all attempts to fix have been inadequate and taken an unescessary amount of time to remedy....any warranty provided does not affect your statuary rights......any costs incurred to correct the vehicle will be down to the finance company to and dealer to settle

[neil6534]

you’re legally allowed to return it up to six years after you bought it. But it gets more difficult to prove that a fault and not normal wear and tear is the cause of any problem.

[P3rks]

The Finance company say it's between the Dealer and Seat UK - They mentioned on the phone that I bought the car off the Dealer an essentially they loaned me the money.

[Conniff]

The Finance company say it's between the Dealer and Seat UK - They mentioned on the phone that I bought the car off the Dealer an essentially they loaned me the money.

 

That's correct, it's why I asked what type you had, shame it's not HP.

[P3rks]

That's correct, it's why I asked what type you had, shame it's not HP.

 

Where does that put me in regards to wanting a refund (all I want is finance settled and my £2k back)?

 

Any advice on my next steps? I'm considering seeing a solicitor.

[neil6534]

are you sure? i could have sworn its between the dealer and finance company, the finance company provided the funds so until that loan is paid off they own the car not you, it is for the dealer and finance company to sort out......the best thing to do is ask both of them for their final response then send your rejection letter, if they still refuse to refund you everything then its the ombudsman then court .....thats it...you can google this and get the same answer

That's correct, it's why I asked what type you had, shame it's not HP.

[Conniff]

are you sure? i could have sworn its between the dealer and finance company, the finance company provided the funds so until that loan is paid off they own the car not you, it is for the dealer and finance company to sort out......the best thing to do is ask both of them for their final response then send your rejection letter, if they still refuse to refund you everything then its the ombudsman then court .....thats it...you can google this and get the same answer

 

The car does belong to the finance company and the finance is similar to a conditional sale agreement so under UK law the purchaser is protected under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the Financial Services Regulations 2004