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Basic Income Guarantee-Do You Like The Idea-Any Views-Have Your Say.

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Well another thread.Looking around saw a few articles on this idea and thought i would pop the idea on the forum.

On this fine,sunny,crispy Monday morning in Spring to start the week off.

Seems to be gathering momentum worldwide.Or the idea of.

 

A bit rushed,maybe not that clear but a start that is all,i will find more articles as time goes on.

But have a look around and have your say on what you think.

 

 

Some say if companies were to invest massively in new machinery,many of our jobs could vanish.

Saying the price of employing cheap labour is far cheaper than the modernising of companies,factories and the rest.

 

But this will surely happen as time marches on.

Robots are poised to eliminate millions of jobs over the coming decades. We have to address the coming epidemic of "technological unemployment" if we're to avoid crippling levels of poverty and societal collapse.

Here's how a guaranteed basic income will help — and why it's absolutely inevitable.

 

Whether working or not you would receive a basic income.

Now how much the benefit system costs in this country i do not know,but obviously most of this would vanish i would think.

 

How Universal Basic Income Will Save Us From the Robot Uprising.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/how-universal-basic-income-will-save-us-from-the-robot-1653303459

 

So as i look around this idea seems to be interesting many countries.

 

Paying all UK citizens £155 a week may be an idea whose time has come

Introducing a basic income guarantee would be costly, but it could be the answer to a lot of different problems

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/12037623/Paying-all-UK-citizens-155-a-week-may-be-an-idea-whose-time-has-come.html

 

Canada plans to experiment with giving people unconditional free money

http://uk.businessinsider.com/ontario-announces-basic-income-plan-2016-3

 

Finland

Finland is considering a radical plan to give everybody free money

http://www.techinsider.io/finlands-plan-to-give-everyone-free-money-2015-11

 

Switzerland Will Hold The World's First Universal Basic Income Referendum

What if everyone got a guaranteed $2,500 check every month? How would society change?

http://www.fastcoexist.com/3056339/switzerland-will-hold-the-worlds-first-universal-basic-income-referendum

 

Have your say,i am sure many will, i hope.Anyone there,of course there is.

Come on in and have your say.

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Cancelling all other overlapping welfare entitlements - which is part of the point of the basic income guarantee (it would do away with means tested benefits) - would pay for some of the costs, but by no means all. In most advanced economies, paying a basic income guarantee would mean either higher taxes or big cuts in other forms of Government spending.

 

The other fly in the ointment - which the Finns do not seem to have thought about very much - is that the provision of such plenty would provide a magnet to those parts of the EU for whom €800 a month is a good wage. Pretty soon, Finland would be swamped by riff-raff, and the whole thing would become unaffordable.

 

From your link to the telegraph - these were two thoughts that I had.

 

If all other benefits are to be ceased - then this might be a good idea, however, I noticed on one of the other links that questions are already being raised as to would the housing benefit still continue - which kind of defeats the object !

 

Would this also not attract MORE economic migrants if their own country does not support this project ?


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There would have to be some kind of maximum rent cap if somebody is on Basic Guaranteed Income, unless that income is around 200 quid a week in my case my rent would not be covered.

 

Many youngsters now would not be able to get onto the property market at all so most would be renting - and of course supply and demand would play a big part.

 

What about 'economic' refugees from other allegedly unsafe countries? Would they be able to claim money in our country?

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I have read all your posts and am looking at many articles.

If possible i will try to answer them,or try to.

I understand your thoughts and have taken them in.

And please look into this if you have the time.One day perhaps earlier than we think this may happen.

Hundreds of years ago this was thought about.

In fact Ronald Reagan considered this and but for something happening,America may well have been miles ahead of anyone with this idea.

For now a couple of videos.

Do not forget robots are coming for our jobs,and if that was to happen.

 

Why we should give everyone a basic income | Rutger Bregman | TEDxMaastricht

 

Time For A Guaranteed Basic Income?

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Just popping back to the UK.BBC.

Money Box Live - A Basic Income-Aired back in January.

Money Box

 

 

Should every UK citizen be paid a basic income, without means-testing or a requirement to work? Lesley Curwen and guests debate proposals for what's being called a Citizen's Income on Wednesday.

 

The term citizen's income refers to an unconditional income paid by the state to every man, woman and child as a right of citizenship. Sufficient to cover basic needs, rates are set for children, working-age adults and pensioners and are guaranteed regardless of other income, ability or intention to work.

 

It's argued that overhauling our complex system of tax and means-tested benefits would cut administrative costs and encourage employment, as concern about losing benefit when income increases would no longer apply.

 

People seeking higher education or training would be able to take advantage of a small secure income, facilitating career change, increasing job satisfaction and productivity.

 

It could enable reduced working hours or career breaks to care for an elderly, disabled or otherwise vulnerable person.

 

Could a citizen's income really work in the UK and would you be in favour of the change?

 

How would this be funded and would you be happy to pay more tax?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06vkj22

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Just popping back to the UK.BBC.

Money Box Live - A Basic Income-Aired back in January.

Money Box

 

 

Should every UK citizen be paid a basic income, without means-testing or a requirement to work? Lesley Curwen and guests debate proposals for what's being called a Citizen's Income on Wednesday.

 

The term citizen's income refers to an unconditional income paid by the state to every man, woman and child as a right of citizenship. Sufficient to cover basic needs, rates are set for children, working-age adults and pensioners and are guaranteed regardless of other income, ability or intention to work.

 

It's argued that overhauling our complex system of tax and means-tested benefits would cut administrative costs and encourage employment, as concern about losing benefit when income increases would no longer apply.

 

People seeking higher education or training would be able to take advantage of a small secure income, facilitating career change, increasing job satisfaction and productivity.

 

It could enable reduced working hours or career breaks to care for an elderly, disabled or otherwise vulnerable person.

 

Could a citizen's income really work in the UK and would you be in favour of the change?

 

How would this be funded and would you be happy to pay more tax?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06vkj22

sry we pay enough tax as it is , also i object to people who do not work earning more than me , i work long hours to provide for my family while others get it given on a plate . this smacks more of the 'entitilment generation#

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sry we pay enough tax as it is , also i object to people who do not work earning more than me , i work long hours to provide for my family while others get it given on a plate . this smacks more of the 'entitilment generation#

 

I rather suspect that this is going to be the popular view.


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Good that people are having their say.

sillygirl1 said.

There would have to be some kind of maximum rent cap if somebody is on Basic Guaranteed Income, unless that income is around 200 quid a week in my case my rent would not be covered

Basic Income will do away with most of the checks and assessments, the exceptions being the case of housing and disability, where additional payments need to be made, subject to some assessment, for eligibility. In the case of housing, we need to ensure that additional payments don't end up enriching private landlords.

 

As for the thought on economic migrants, i am only beginning to learn a little about this as many are.

Fortress Europe would have to perhaps become a reality.Bit i do not know,i read it.

Not talking about refugees fleeing hell.

 

The article-.Just a gentle reminder i am unbiased at the moment,just trying to get to grips with the idea.

postmn

sry we pay enough tax as it is , also i object to people who do not work earning more than me , i work long hours to provide for my family while others get it given on a plate . this smacks more of the 'entitilment generation#

Will look into the tax situation and benefits for people who are working.

I have to go out now for a while,keep posting your thoughts if you have time.

 

Basic Income: We Cannot Afford Not to Do It

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/adnan-aldaini/basic-income_b_9320320.html

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Where would the money come from?

 

I think probably the same source that all the benefits come from - but is the question everyone will be asking.


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Well maybe this answers a few questions.

I am finding this very interesting.

And learning a little about this idea as i go.

Yes ,a good question.

Nystagmite.

Where would the money come from?

 

Frequently asked questions

 

What is a Citizen's Income?

 

Why do we need to replace the present benefit and tax systems?

 

What would a Citizen's Income scheme involve and how would we pay for it?

 

Is a Citizen's Income affordable?

http://www.citizensincome.org/FAQs.htm

I will be looking for those who are against this idea and for what reasons also.

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I just read this interesting article.

Be afraid-very afraid as the robots arrive to take your jobs.

Only one left could be someone oiling the machinery.Perhaps not,a robot could be doing that also.

Sooner than we think.

The powerful ones that are unseen with power we can only imagine that juggle us around like puppets may not be very pleased with this idea.

As you would expect.

I apologise,i let my imagination run away with me at times.Must be the sea air.

 

Anyway relax and have a read if you have time.It is getting later in the evening,time to chill.

With a cup of tea or something a little stronger.

It has been a strange old day again.

 

Robots will take your job.

By Scott Santens FEBRUARY 25, 2016

http://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2016/02/24/robots-will-take-your-job/5lXtKomQ7uQBEzTJOXT7YO/story.html#comments

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Some thoughts:

- currently, it obviously costs money to assess people and what they're entitled to. Ok, with some people, it just takes 5 minutes (ie, single person living at home not disabled under 25 and job seeking) - with some, it's obviously far more complex and we may save money there

- it would save the issue of "I'm starting work next week and won't get any money for 4 weeks (or however often they get paid) - what do I live on?" Benefits usually get paid every 2 weeks and you can't really save enough to live that long

 

But, then you're paying someone who earns a fair amount who can afford to live money who doesn't need it.

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Hi Nystagmite,you have obviously been looking into this idea,interesting isn't it .

Some thoughts:

- currently, it obviously costs money to assess people and what they're entitled to. Ok, with some people, it just takes 5 minutes (ie, single person living at home not disabled under 25 and job seeking) - with some, it's obviously far more complex and we may save money there

- it would save the issue of "I'm starting work next week and won't get any money for 4 weeks

(or however often they get paid) - what do I live on?" Benefits usually get paid every 2 weeks

and you can't really save enough to live that long

 

In the UK, the Citizen’s Income Trust has calculated that if we gave £56 a week to people aged under 24,

£71 a week to those aged between 25 and 65, and £142 to the over-65s, it would cost £276bn. Means-tested benefits

could be abolished to the value of £272bn. Add in savings on administration costs and benefit fraud (a universal flat rate payment makes it almost

impossible to cheat the system) and you are firmly in the black – in theory. In practice?

Well Finland is going to trial it i believe,and answers will arrive.

 

Of the few trials,over the years i was surprised with the results and pleased.

I will put one or two on soon.

 

I also understand that everyone has a view.Some may not like the idea,some will.Well have your say.

This is not going to go away,it is going to build in my humble view.

Might as well discuss things.Just read a few of the links if you have not heard of the Guaranteed Basic Income before.

 

And if anyone has been on Universal Credit or faced those Atos health checks where it seems

if you can touch a keyboard with your nose you are fit to work the system is obviously a complete mess.

Maybe the idea was good,but the way you are treated is not.In my view.

Not fit for modern society the way many are treated.Unfair sanctions and so much more.

Would rather go to a medieval torture chamber

How many are working with illnesses and endangering themselves and others.

Sooner the system is rid of the better:-)

I will leave that,best to perhaps.

Before someone tells me off.

 

 

A no-strings basic income? If it works for the royal family, it can work for us all

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/07/basic-income-royal-family-living-wage-economy

 

But, then you're paying someone who earns a fair amount who can afford to live money who doesn't need it.

 

I will look into that as the day goes on Nystagmite and try to answer that.I have read a few articles about your thought but want to answer clearly.Or try to.

Bye for now,a little work to do.Just a little.

Tawnyowl.

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Immediately we would save money by not having to pay ATOS - but at the same time, how many DWP employees would be out of a job ?


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Well citizenB and Nystagmite.

That is true.

 

But the Civil Service have changed already how many have already lost their jobs as things were modernised.

DWP one day may be obsolete even.Everything automated.If still in existance of course.

How the Civil Service has changed in 10 charts.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/19/how-the-uk-civil-service-has-changed-in-10-charts

 

Last year.

As part of the efficiency plan, ministers expect 100,000 civil servant jobs – almost a quarter of the 440,000 total –

to be lost between now and 2020. This is on top of the 90,000 jobs that have been cut in the past five years.

 

Where have they gone.Who knows the answer to that.

 

When i left school i did a quick spell in the civil service-FIS Family Income Supplement

At the time there was nearly 800,000 civil servants.

A job for life my parents said,get in there,not any more it seems.

Many must be worried.

 

How would the Basic Income be distributed.

So simple they have our NI Numbers already.

And only available to people with Great Britain citizenship.

Could be up and running in next to no time.

I understand trials,considerations,years down the line perhaps,maybe not in my lifetime,who knows.

 

On a thread in the Bear Garden they were talking about driverless cars,lorries etc.

It only takes a little imagination or maybe madness in my case to think well if that

is happening how long before technology introduces routes etc.No need for lorry drivers,taxi drivers and the rest.

 

Friend of mine is a picker in a warehouse,how long before this job could be automated.

Think of your own jobs.If your company was to spend,ok a lot of money to modernise,

introduce modern machinery,would your job be safe.

At the moment labour price v modernising price is winning the argument.Perhaps.Just thinking.

 

It surely will come about.Did those automated machines,you know the ones to myself anyway do not give out money.

ATMs they are called,did they cost jobs.No need to head to the bank to collect money.

Must have done.

 

Maybe when some people are released from their jobs they are not keen on,they

will find their minds opening,become self employed, entrepreneurs, writers,poets.

Do what they want to do for the first time in their lives.With a few pounds.

How many people have never had a chance,how many successes has Britain missed business wise,many things, due to pressure.

 

Well probably many are thinking i am rambling again or off my head,just letting it out as i hope you will.:gossip:

Be careful out there the robots are coming, they are,to whip away your jobs.

Prepare,plan and survive.

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Back in 2015.For those that like a good read.My last post today.

Basic Income:

a detailed proposal

GREEN PARTY OF ENGLAND AND WALES

https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/assets/files/Policy%20files/Basic%20Income%20Consultation%20Paper.pdf

 

And.

Sat 5th March.Small break for the news.Half way through.

Money for Nothing?

Newshour Extra

Listen in pop-out player

 

What if governments paid all their citizens a basic income? Whether rich or poor, you would receive the same amount of money, and you would keep it whether you went out to work and received a salary or not. It is an idea that has been around for centuries, but one that has been gaining traction in recent times as welfare payments become ever more complex and expensive to administer. Proponents also argue that it would remove the 'poverty trap' where people are dissuaded from seeking work because they would lose their benefits if they did so. There is also the issue of machines taking over many of the jobs that we all do to earn a living - not just basic manual tasks, but increasingly 'intelligent' work that will in the future be carried out by robots. Join Owen Bennett Jones and his panel of expert guests as they discuss the future of work and how we pay for it. Should we give free money to everyone and let robots take the strain?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03kptyk

 

A strange thought.Just a point.

In Great Britain-the Government gave the banks 375 billion.

Where did it go and what did it achieve.

Would have provided basic income for 3 years.

 

Similar in America-One thousand billion.

Plus 1000 Billion supporting corporations

Raise a few thoughts from this serf,for sure.

 

Now of course i can make mistakes and if i have correct me.Those figures are mind boggling.

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Well, I guess this would stop some of being labled benefits scroungers and being reported for supposed benefit fraud.

 

The poverty trap is a good point. And there are some single parents who struggle to find work because of childcare - they either can't find childcare or it's too expensive.

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Well, I guess this would stop some of being labled benefits scroungers and being reported for supposed benefit fraud.

 

The poverty trap is a good point. And there are some single parents who struggle to find work because of childcare - they either can't find childcare or it's too expensive.

 

I think this where it become a stikky point - there will be some people who are not in receipt of some benefits, because they have no intention of working for one reason or another and are not entitled. So you will actually be giving a lot more people this benefit.

 

Say perhaps a Mum who has decided to bring up her own children rather than dumping them in a child zoo whilst she goes out to work.

 

Or perhaps someone who has decided that they are not prepared to put up with the humiliation of the Job Centre staff and are probably doing DIY or gardening jobs whilst searching for employment at their own pace.

 

Those House husbands/wives who agree that one of them will work whilst the other stays at home, either looking after the youngsters or simply doing their own thing.

 

I am sure there must be many other people who do not have a "proper job" yet manage to support themselves and are not reliant on benefits of any kind.

 

So you will be bringing more people into this Citizens Income.


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Will recipients of this be responsible for saving for their future pension - which is increasingly looking as though it will soon become a means tested benefit !


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Hi citizenB

Just popping in.

Pensions there is a thought.Now i as many are are wondering many things.And boy are there hundreds of articles out there to read.

But the idea seems to be catching on.Worth chatting about and watching developments for sure.

 

Best i can come up with is this.

Analogous-sorry i had never heard that word had to look it up-I know you all knew what it meant.

comparable in certain respects, typically in a way which makes clearer the nature of the things compared.

to the case of children, some restrict basic income to members of the population which have not reached retirement age and then see it as a natural complement to an individual, non-means-tested, non-contributory basic pension pitched at a higher level, of a sort that already exists in some European countries, like Sweden or the Netherlands. In most proposals, however, the basic income is granted beyond retirement age, either at the same level as for younger adults or at a somewhat higher level. In all cases, this basic income for the elderly can be supplemented by income from public or private contributory pension schemes, as well as from private savings and from employment.

Source.

Link-

Must be twenty questions and answers there.May help some who have questions.

Frequently Asked Questions

The following FAQ’s are based on Philippe Van Parijs’s Background Paper to BIEN’s 9th Congress in Berlin, Basic Income. A simple and powerful idea for the 21st century.

Some of the questions.

 

http://www.basicincome.org/basic-income/faq/#pensioners

 

 

"The beauty of it is no one gets left in poverty but work still pays." http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nelsons-column-1000-big-socialist-7546905

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Now i first came across Owen Jones in The heights of the Payday Loan problems and watched as he and some of his supporters occupied a legal loan sharks shop for ten minutes or so.:-)

Then i went to support a Save The NHS Demo in 2013.Where he marched for miles as did 70,000 others and did and did a excellent speech afterwards.

I took a excellent photo of him before the march talking to a camera crew.But will refrain from putting it on.

Perhaps not relevant.

Fox News calls him the Braying Jackal.Certainly knows how to put his view across.

 

His view on things.

Work already consumes too much of our lives: for the next generation, it could consume even more. The state pension age will be bumped up to 66 by 2020; and according to experts reacting to the government’s review of the state retirement age, those lucky young things now joining the world of employment could be waiting into their 70s for a state pension. An inevitable byproduct of rising life expectancy, they say; but surely a gift of progress should be the granting of more healthy years of leisure, not fewer.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/03/retirement-retiring-age-77-strive-work-less-progress-challenge-bleak-prospect

 

 

We should be striving to work less, not toiling until we drop

Owen Jones

 

Progress wasn’t supposed to mean chasing an ever-receding prospect of retirement. It’s time to challenge this bleak vision

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I am putting these few thoughts out there.

They were notes that is all.May stir some thoughts.

I will be putting more out as time goes on.I usually work on them but just throwing them out there for others

to have their say,put your views down.So maybe not to clear what i am getting at.

 

Just think of this

Germany and Britains population aging.And probably other european countries as well.

So workers came from many places to fill these vacancies.Has been going on for generations perhaps.

Pay their taxes and help pay for pensions

 

Mass migration is the major cause of our rapid population increase.

It is estimated that net migration plus births to foreign-born parents has accounted for 85% of UK population

growth since 2000.

The population is officially projected to rise by almost ten million over the next 25 years.

68% of this increase will be down to future migrants and their children.

However, if net migration continues at around the recent higher levels experienced, the UK’s population is expected to rise even faster,

by 8 million over the next fifteen years and by over 12 million in next 25 years.

Source-Link

 

But will there be as many manual,retail jobs still be here to do.

 

Retail Trade-I have already used the automated tills have you,must have cost jobs,surely.

And more will follow.

Online shopping-must be costing jobs as much cheaper.And could become fully automated.

Many retail jobs could disappear.

 

Cars and lorries become driverless,well you can imagine how many jobs will go.

Will not be long before routes programmed and hey ho off they will go,no need for human drivers.

No problem as things advance.

 

As more and more factories and offices become automated more jobs could go.

Not going to go on to much it might not happen if people rebel,but probably will.

 

According to one unpublished study, the coming wave of

technological breakthroughs endangers up to 47% of total employment in the US.

Must be similar here.

 

But of course we could rebel against the impending,industrial revolution of robotics and automation.

or accept the basic income,flog the robots instead of our selves,sit back and enjoy the profits and

do what you want to do.

What that is is anyone's guess but enjoy it.

But as usual i could be getting carried away.

But learning more what ifs every week.And liking the idea of Basic Income being debated sooner perhaps than we may think.

In Great Britain.

 

George Osborne and co need to take their blinkers off ,before the robot arrives and bites the hand that will not oil them.

Probably he will say to the robot,its cuts,we are all in this together.No money for oil.Cause we are.In the mire together.

You have to admit,part time and the jobs that many of us are doing sometimes you hardly have enough left to feed the cat.

Is that really fair in a modern world.Pride is one thing been skinned alive and cut to the bone is not.

 

And the construction industry could be affected as flat pack homes become more popular.

Legal and General have invested 50 million in this idea.They see a market for sure.

Quick build is needed and so many homes needed now.A thread discussing this idea.

 

How can we Sort the Housing Shortage out.Many are without affordable homes.Flatpacks?

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?455572-How-can-we-Sort-the-Housing-Shortage-out.Many-are-without-affordable-homes.Flatpacks

 

 

Good grief i forgot about the hotel industry.

Inside the Japanese Hotel Staffed by Robots

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