Acquiring lease details on property freehold

[Edward555]

I am trying to get a hold of the lease hold information of a property.

I want to know what they have to pay in ground rent, what rules they have to follow, what they can and cannot do as terms of the leasehold.

 

Another forum told me to send an OC2 form to the land registry. But I dont see anything about a lease on what was sent back. Is the following documents the right ones they should of sent me?

 

[AndyOrch]

Thread moved to the appropriate forum.

 

I would assume you would have to enquire with the freeholder...not the Land Registry Edward.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[mariner51]

If the property is registered with LR you should be able to access/view Lease on LR website on payment of a small fee.

[Edward555]

I am the freeholder... And I dont know the terms of the leaseholder lease, the details will defiantly be with the land registry. Thats why Im asking here. I was told its an OC2 form on another site, but what I got back doesnt show anything see above. The online documents mentioned from a poster above...

The online files are the title register, that has some details on the title register to the freehold associated with my flat, the other flats title registers dont have anything, I will post an example on Thursday of what details you get with the title register. I dont think this is all the details on the freehold, like I said, I was told on another forum its OC2 forms.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Edward555

[BazzaS]

I am the freeholder... And I dont know the terms of the leaseholder lease, the details will defiantly be with the land registry. Thats why Im asking here. I was told its an OC2 form on another site, but what I got back doesnt show anything see above. The online documents mentioned from a poster above...

The online files are the title register, that has some details on the title register to the freehold associated with my flat, the other flats title registers dont have anything, I will post an example on Thursday of what details you get with the title register. I dont think this is all the details on the freehold, like I said, I was told on another forum its OC2 forms.

 

How long is the lease for, and when was it taken out?

Is it a legal or an equitable lease?

(Not all leases need to be registered at the LR!)

 

Did you acquire the freehold after the lease was granted, and if so, when?

 

Is this a sub-lease / under-lease (presumably so, if you are the freeholder, else you should already have a copy!)

If a sub-lease : are there any provisions relating to sub leases in your head-lease?

If the head-lease and you acquired the freehold after the lease was granted : the lease should have been included in the relevant documents by the seller of the freehold / identified as an "interest, in actual occupation" by your conveyancer (or they should have advised you to inspect the property for such!)

 

Has the lease been "assigned" : sold / transferred to a new tenant? Or

Has the lease been sub-let (a new lease but the original tenant is still "on the hook" for the original terms)?

 

The dates are important in case people replying need to asses if the lease is under the "old" or "new" regime, especially if any freehold covenants need to be considered : any leasehold covenants are likely to be binding on lessees (head-tenant and or sub-tenants)

[BazzaS]

You have a copy of a TR1. This is the deed by which the title was transferred to you / a previous freeholder.

There may be another TR1 dealing with a transfer of a lease if it has been assigned (rather than sublet, which might have to be registered but wouldn't be on a TR1 as there is no transfer)

 

What does the title register say in terms of charges (& more importantly, restrictions)?

 

You mention an OC2. Isn't this for historical info on holders of the legal title?

https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-property-and-land/search-the-register

[AndyOrch]

Where can I get a copy of my lease?

 

This should have been given to you by your conveyancer when you purchased the property. Where there is a mortgage on the property it can be obtained from the mortgage lender. The Land registry will also hold a copy. Please note that an administration fee may be charged for providing a copy of the lease.

 

http://www.lease-advice.org/information/faqs/faq.asp?item=24

[BazzaS]

Where can I get a copy of my lease?

 

This should have been given to you by your conveyancer when you purchased the property. Where there is a mortgage on the property it can be obtained from the mortgage lender. The Land registry will also hold a copy. Please note that an administration fee may be charged for providing a copy of the lease.

 

http://www.lease-advice.org/information/faqs/faq.asp?item=24

 

If it is the head-lease and IF the lease was granted prior to the sale of the freehold

If the head-lease and you acquired the freehold after the lease was granted : the lease should have been included in the relevant documents by the seller of the freehold

[Edward555]

I think the following may answer some questions and open up a few more questions. I post the title registry, this is from the title register for my property I got it from the land registry for 3 gbp. I have edited some parts and added in pseudonyms.

 

The property was inherited. flat 2, a second floor flat. My parents owned it before.

 

I asked the land registry why I cannot see it saying that I have the freehold, they said it has never been registered. That it had been bought as a whole building, and then each flat sold off, with the last flat remaining with the head lease. Thats exacttly what my parents did, they owned the whole building then sold off each flat. So I get the idea from the land registery it has never had the freehold registered. If you look at the dates they go back to 1875.

Can I upgrade my title from head leasehold to freehold absoloute?

 

Some details look odd -

if you look at C: shedule of notices of leases.

flat 2 is not listed. and there is two listed for 161 flat 3, this might be because both flat 2 and 3, have part of their property above next door 163, or is it that 163, has part of their ground floor property under 16, its hard to tell. see section A: 5. And it seems someone needs to pay rent, dont know who has to pay rent, 161, or next door 163?

 

We also have a listing for rent in section A2: . But who its to I dont know.

The other flats have ground rent listed at 25 pounds, if thats something my parents added to their lease when they sold the flats off I dont know. I will post the other leases on the other flats after I get some feedback from this document.

Edited March 5, 2016 by dx100uk
images remove pers info showing - dx

[dx100uk]

save spamming the forum to enable picture uploads

 

 

simply use the UPLOAD

and post your images via .pdf

 

 

dx

[andydd]

Leases should be available from LR for 3 or 4 pound, ic not then it's more complex, do any of the Leaseholders of that 4 flats have leases ?, do you charge ground rent and service charges ?, you may have obligations to the leaseholders and if you don't fulfil them you could be in trouble and they could sue.

[mariner51]

So you inherited flat 2 from your parents, who bought the whole property (Freehold) and converted it to 4 flats, 3 of which they then sold Leasehold?

If your parents are now deceased, their Solicitor/bank may have the Deeds in storage. Sounds like parents bought property before LR became obligatory but sold ind flats afterwards. For Inherited property, Registration is/was optional, as tech not a sale of property. Some approx. dates would be helpful for resolution. If you are the Freeholder, have you Formally demanded Ground Rent for each Leasehold flat in prescribed form?

Why do you want all 4 Leases? It would appear flat 2 is Freehold.

[Edward555]

I cant upload images as I dont have enough posts, so here is a pdf.

I got the original from the land registry for 3 gbp. I have edited some parts and added in pseudonyms.

see the image and then look over my notes below.

===================

The property was inherited. flat 2, a second floor flat. My parents owned it before.

 

I asked the land registry why I cannot see it saying that I have the freehold, they said it has never been registered. That it had been bought as a whole building, and then each flat sold off, with the last flat remaining with the head lease. Thats exacttly what my parents did, they owned the whole building then sold off each flat. So I get the idea from the land registery it has never had the freehold registered. If you look at the dates they go back to 1875.

Can I upgrade my title from head leasehold to freehold absoloute?

 

Some details look odd -

if you look at C: shedule of notices of leases.

flat 2 is not listed. and there is two listed for 161 flat 3, this might be because both flat 2 and 3, have part of their property above next door 163, or is it that 163, has part of their ground floor property under 16, its hard to tell. see section A: 5. And it seems someone needs to pay rent, dont know who has to pay rent, 161, or next door 163?

 

We also have a listing for rent in section A2: . But who its to I dont know.

The other flats have ground rent listed at 25 pounds, if thats something my parents added to their lease when they sold the flats off I dont know. I will post the other leases after I get some feedback from this document.

my reg1.pdf

[Edward555]

So you inherited flat 2 from your parents, who bought the whole property (Freehold) and converted it to 4 flats, 3 of which they then sold Leasehold?

If your parents are now deceased, their Solicitor/bank may have the Deeds in storage. Sounds like parents bought property before LR became obligatory but sold ind flats afterwards. For Inherited property, Registration is/was optional, as tech not a sale of property. Some approx. dates would be helpful for resolution. If you are the Freeholder, have you Formally demanded Ground Rent for each Leasehold flat in prescribed form?

Why do you want all 4 Leases? It would appear flat 2 is Freehold.

 

have a look at the document pdf and it will clear up your questions. I don't think the freehold was ever registered, look at the dates on the pdf. My parents bought the whole building, then sold 2 flats leaving 1 remaining, I own the last one, the sold flats are leasehold, my flat has whats left, is it the freehold, Im not sure, the land registry told me when I asked if their documents was wrong that the freehold has never been registered, and I have the head lease hold. Have a look and tell me what you think.

[mariner51]

If your parents are now deceased, their Solicitor/bank may have the Deeds in storage.

 

 

If parents are deceased the last Executor should know where paperwork is located.

As you are the Freeholder do you want to claim G Rent from Leaseholders?

999 years was not normal term for 1875, more likely your parents added/amended the Term to Leasehold flats when sold (prob in the 60s-80's)

[Edward555]

I know where the deeds are Ill get them from the solicitors.

Are you sure I am the full freeholder (not a head lease) as it doesnt say freeholder anywhere in the title on the pdf I uploaded.

But my title register document is different than the other flats, but confuses me why it doesnt say freeholder on mine.

Also yes, I want to charge ground rent. The place is in need of decoration. But I dont know how much I can charge.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Edward555

[ericsbrother]

the deeds will tell you that but I would bet that you now own the freehold of the building and the flat was put into a lease for convenience so maintenance costs could be calculated on an equitable basis.