bbc iplayer'loophole' to be closed

[Guest]

'The culture secretary has vowed to end the iPlayer "loophole" soon, so those watching catch-up TV do not get "a free ride"....John Whittingdale said the licence fee would be extended so it no longer just applied to live television viewers.'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-35708623

[Sparks_]

Soon we will need a license to breath!

[citizenB]

 

An agreement was reached between the government and the BBC last July that the government would update licence fee legislation, as part of negotiations that saw the corporation agreeing to cover the cost of providing free licences for over-75s.

 

In his keynote speech, Mr Whittingdale said: "Having discussed this with the BBC and the BBC Trust, I will be bringing forward, as soon as practicable, secondary legislation which will extend the current TV licensing regime, not only to cover those watching the BBC live but also those watching the BBC on catch-up through the iPlayer."

 

I think that ALL TV companies should contribute to the free licenences for over 75's

[renegadeimp]

What loophole though. The law clearly says live tv or radio transmissions.

[Guest]

they see it as a 'loophole', though not technically one as such atm. its to change the law so it includes the beebs catchup stuff ie not just live?

how it wld/cld be enforced though, prob via an increase in the 'ultra vires' licence fee

[Conniff]

They will now make the assumption that all those without a license are watching non live via recording or internet and take them all to court.

[Guest]

how do some 'euro' countries fare re a tv licence

according to wikip, see the table

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licence

[tobyjugg2]

Soon we will need a license to breath!

 

As there are already reports of court orders based on 'seeing flickering lights through the curtains', You'll have to prove you were incapable of watching it

- impossible of course unless you have no internet/mobile phone or anything like and even then they can say you must be hiding it somewhere.

Strip searches by the license goons ...

[tobyjugg2]

they see it as a 'loophole', though not technically one as such atm. its to change the law so it includes the beebs catchup stuff ie not just live?

how it wld/cld be enforced though, prob via an increase in the 'ultra vires' licence fee

 

Easy - have you need to put in your TV license number (or register for access) before they let you access it on the web. Job done.

[renegadeimp]

Except if it was that easy and true, theyd have already done that a long time ago.

They have to prove you were watching live tv. You could have been watching a DVD, or watching youtube on your tv.

[tobyjugg2]

Except if it was that easy and true, theyd have already done that a long time ago.

 

It is that simple, its just that previously it wasn't worthwhile as the majority were catchup where a license isnt yet required - hence not worth the trouble.

 

They have to prove you were watching live tv. You could have been watching a DVD, or watching youtube on your tv.

 

Actually - they dont, they should have to - but they dont

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/about/foi-administering-the-licence-fee-AB20

 

 

"A magistrate (or sheriff in Scotland) has discretion to grant a search warrant for authorised persons to search premises suspected of illegal activity in respect of television licensing. It is an offence to intentionally obstruct a person exercising the warrant (see section 366(8) of the Communications Act 2003). TV Licensing will be accompanied by the police when executing a search warrant."

[tobyjugg2]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/21/part/4

 

 

excerpt

(7)Where a person has the power by virtue of a warrant under this section to examine or test any television receiver found on any premises, or in any vehicle, it shall be the duty—

 

(a)of a person who is on the premises or in the vehicle, and

 

(b)in the case of a vehicle, of a person who has charge of it or is present when it is searched,

 

to give the person carrying out the examination or test all such assistance as that person may reasonably require for carrying it out.

 

(8)A person is guilty of an offence if he—

 

(a)intentionally obstructs a person in the exercise of any power conferred on that person by virtue of a warrant under this section; or

 

(b)without reasonable excuse, fails to give any assistance that he is under a duty to give by virtue of subsection (7).

[citizenB]

There are quite a few countries that have abolished the TV licence and publicly fund.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licence

[tobyjugg2]

There are quite a few countries that have abolished the TV licence and publicly fund.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licence

 

Yes, Yet our government has implemented a law supporting TVL where not breaking the law and simply requiring them to leave you alone can be interpreted by a magistrate as grounds for a search warrant.

 

I didn't believe this at first, but it does appear to be true. - although many of the other statements readily seen would certainly seem to be false - like they have to catch you watching TV - well no they dont - a TV set up to receive channels, even if the Aeriel isnt plugged in would seem to see you prosecuted.

[Bailiff Advice]

Easy - have you need to put in your TV license number (or register for access) before they let you access it on the web. Job done.

 

I cannot see any other way of restricting access to iPlayer unless with a licence number. Mind you, what would stop me giving my licence number to my sons?

 

I haven't read this yet, but this is the Culture Secretary's full keynote speech today:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/culture-secretary-keynote-to-oxford-media-convention-2016

[tobyjugg2]

It says little apart from some BBC trumpet blowing, whinging about online ad blockers and saying that BBC programs online were never intended to be free and they intend to close that loophole.

The real issue is how they close the loophole.

If they just extend the TVL bullboys rights, then you pc, laptop and phone will also come under their 'investigation' completely breaching the requirement to reasonable privacy expected but never mentioned in their current investigations.

The only realistic way is to require registration to watch it with confirmation of licence at/during registration.

Its my opinion that anything openly broadcast on any media should be free to receive - or not to receive as you wish.

Sky and VM manage it - why not the BBC.

It seems to me on examination that there appear to be some simple facts

The word of the law (as shown in the links above) allows suspicion as a valid reason to give a search warrent to TVL, and at least some magistrates also appear to hold that view.

... despite TVL statements here http://www.lime-marmalade.net/philip_dean.html

Obstructing (very subjective)

Obstructing a search warrant, even a TVL one, is a separate offense clearly defined in the links above which does not require any guilt proven on the issue the search warrant was granted for.

The law as stated is linked above

In addition to the video linked on a number of the anti-TVL sites, there are a number of local newspaper reports detailing such events.

Heres one http://www.burtonmail.co.uk/Television-licence-trial-begin-today/story-25958759-detail/story.html

PACE

TVL are not required to follow PACE requirements, they are required to give a 'caution'

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/about/foi-administering-the-licence-fee-AB20

"What is a prosecution statement? A prosecution statement is a record of an interview which takes place under caution, conducted by TV Licensing enquiry officers if they suspect that an offence under the Communications Act 2003 has been committed.

When taking statements enquiry officers must have regard to the Police and Criminal Evidence Act Codes of Practice (‘the PACE Codes’) or Scottish criminal law (depending on where the address is). This means enquiry officers have a duty to caution the individual concerned of their legal rights before taking a statement if the individual still wishes to give a statement. Most of the PACE Codes do not apply to enquiry officers as they do not have any power to arrest or detain people, enter premises or seize property. The PACE Codes only apply to enquiry officers in so far as it imposes a duty on them to give a caution.

There is a duty to respect your privacy, but dont read too much into that.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0eNVR3Ar16ZbDlKeldrVzFhZE0/edit?pref=2&pli=1

Note the PACE statement in the above contradict the 'facts' on the TVL site

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/about/foi-administering-the-licence-fee-AB20

I am NOT legally qualified in any way and THESE ARE MY OPINIONS based on some research AND SHOULD BE confirmed with a suitable LEGAL REPRESENTATIVE

[unclebulgaria67]

They might as well make it compulsory for every adult to pay a TV licence, whether they normally watch a TV or not. If they walk down a high street they will pass shops selling TV's. If they go to a pub, they may watch TV. Etc etc,

 

If every adult paid a licence, rather than a household, they could reduce the fee to about £25 a year each.

 

Nobody would be exempt from paying.

 

In the modern world we are in, where you can watch it on numerous devices anywhere you want to, it is illogical to maintain a household licencing system.

[tobyjugg2]

Darned awkward to get this

BBC response to Consultation

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=15&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwig0KbckKTLAhUDHxoKHfBcBbY4ChAWCDcwBA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.gov.uk%2Fgovernment%2Fuploads%2Fsystem%2Fuploads%2Fattachment_data%2Ffile%2F445844%2F_45__2015_04_24_-_BBC_RESPONSE_TO_CONSULTATION.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHTXpUdql1S1n0cOMkNgHlzBud26g

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/news/press_releases/2015/green_paper_response

 

 

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/assets/files/pdf/about/how_we_govern/charter_review/dcms_response.pdf

[hightail]

Is it only BBC iplayer or all catch up? I don't have a licence and I'd be happy enough to be checked because my TV isn't tuned in to receive live channels. If this is intended to only apply to BBC iplayer how on earth will they police it?

[Conniff]

If every adult paid a licence, rather than a household, they could reduce the fee to about £25 a year each.

 

Like they tried to introduce with the Poll Tax that ended in riots.

[unclebulgaria67]

If you search for worldwide TV licencing you will see a Wiki page. Quite interesting reading. UK was first to introduce licences and it is now pretty common. Germany actually charges a higher licence. Some still charge for radio.

 

They could scrap licences and just fund all TV subsidies from general taxation. BBC should be forced to accept more advertising and the money should be spread across different broadcasters.l

[tobyjugg2]

The £25 if every household pays just doesnt stack up unc.

By those calculations only 1/6th of households are paying.

[tobyjugg2]

oops - sorry misread

[andydd]

Stupid idea would never work. Even the IT systems would cost a few million and it's no guarantee they would recoup this money.

[tobyjugg2]

You obviously have no idea how many pay/membership streaming websites there are, most of which probably dont make millions in their lifetimes..

The BBC already have the DB to validate the licenses, which give addresses should checking be meeded.

Its a simple matter to check for multiple connections from different IP's - all standard stuff although there would still be some cheating od course - as there is with VM and SKY - who still make big profits..

Now the BBC might end up with the implementation costing millions, but it certainly wouldn't be justifiable.

Have you heard of Sky Go for example.

or look here

http://www.thegreatcourses.com/

On Search warrants

"A magistrate (in England and Wales), a sheriff (in Scotland) or lay magistrate (in Northern Ireland) may grant a

search warrant if he or she is satisfied by information on oath that there are reasonable grounds for believing

(i) that a TV licensing offence has been or is being committed;

(ii) that evidence of the offence is likely to be found on the specified premises (or vehicle); and

(iii) that there is no one able to grant access to the premises, vehicle or evidence with whom it is practicable to communicate, or that entry will not be granted unless a warrant is produced, or that the purpose of the search may be frustrated or seriously prejudiced unless it carried out by a person who secures entry immediately upon arrival.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/403561/15_02_12_Consultation_document_-_TV_Licence_Enforcement_Review__2_.pdf

https://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/docs/code_2013_accessible_english.pdf