Mates ukpc Windscreen PCN - leased car - whilst attending premises on a service call - Ashton Moss Leisure Park

[zydeco]

after being on this site for several years I never thought I'd be posting on this part.

 

a work mate has received a windscreen ticket from ukpc whilst attending premises on a service call.

the car is leased from another co.

 

 

he phoned the fleet management dept of our co. to find out what the procedure with the ntk is.

 

he was told to send the ticket in to the office and they would look at it to see if there was grounds to appeal, otherwise they would pay it and deduct it from his wages.

 

It would seem that our company cannot tell the difference between a penalty charge and a speculative invoice

but it puts him in a tricky situation because he doesn't know what happens with the ntk

and the only way he can take them out of the loop is by appealing as the driver before the ntk is sent out.

 

I'm sure I've seen something on here about lease vehicles and the difference

between registered keeper and keeper but I can't find it.

 

Any ideas out there?

[ericsbrother]

One problem he will have is that UKPC are not honest

and will undoubtedly dismiss any appeal regardless of its merits.

 

 

They are members of the IPC, another organisation whose honesty can be called into doubt so appealing to their assessors will be pointless as they are at best a kangaroo court.

 

His best course of action is to try and explain why the company shouldnt pay this invoice

and accept driver responsibility so he can fight it himself.

 

 

This may mean writing to UKPC before his 28 days are up

and then telling company about it rather than telling them first.

 

 

UKPC will undoubtedly have made a series of mistakes with their ticketing

so when we can have sight of all the details from date and time, place, signage present at site,

what ticket says etc

 

 

we can suggest a response.

[zydeco]

thanks for replying so quick EB,

according to the ticket and signage they're in the BPA so popla appeal at some point.

 

It was my thought that he'd have to bypass work by appealing as the driver,

was hoping being a lease vehicle would alter things.

 

I've got pics and copy of ticket, will have to transfer from co. email etc...

 

car was parked at night at Ashton Moss Leisure Park not in a parking bay

but at side of building where no signage in view.

 

I'll get the pics sorted

[zydeco]

pic of sign is unreadable in the dark and it points the wrong way to be seen from the vehicle.

ukpc sign daylight.pdf ukpc windscreen PCN.pdf

[armadillo71]

The RK is who the DVLA has on their data base for said vehicle. The RK does not have to be, and is not necessarily the keeper of the vehicle on the date of the event.

 

 

The driver can be someone else again. The owner can be none of them...

 

 

Schedule 4 of the POFA 2012 allows for keeper liability not RK liability but ;

 

 

“keeper” means the person by whom the vehicle is kept at the time the vehicle was parked, which in the case of a registered vehicle is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to be the registered keeper;

 

 

So if your colleague appeals as the keeper, then it should take out the lease company and still afford him the protection of the POFA.

 

 

But that means trusting UKPC to then not get RK details from the DVLA, who you say will pay the charge, and UKPC are not for trusting....

 

 

I think he will have to appeal as the driver... but will make sure he states he was NOT a user of the leisure park.

 

 

The sign states ' Aston leisure park users only '. To me that reads as the terms of parking only apply to drivers who use the park.....

[zydeco]

I agree with that armadillo, signage also says no trade vehicles so nobody is allowed to visit the park on business??

also the charge amount is barely legible having been altered and too small to read.

if this was a personally owned vehicle it would be easy to deal with.

[Dublindel]

It's UKPC so is easy to deal with. Most important to get this into your name before they pay it on your behalf

 

Just to add the address for UKPC

 

3 Gregories Court

Gregories Road

Beaconsfield

Buckinghamshire

HP9 1HQ

 

I also have the Directors address if you need it

[armadillo71]

You haven't told us what the ticket was issued for?

 

And if ( or why not ) he hasn't got the business he was working for to get it cancelled...

 

Just seen NTD. ' not parked correctly within the markings of a bay or space '.

[zydeco]

the businesses at the site don't have anything to do with the parking, that was the first thing he asked after getting the ticket, there's about a dozen leisure units there.

 

that address from Dublinded is different to the one on the ticket.

[armadillo71]

That address is where the actual [problematic] operate from. The appeals address is just a mail drop but that is where they say you must appeal to, so I would. Any posted appeal must be sent with proof of postage.

 

It is highly unlikely they will cancel the ticket after the first appeal, especially as it is the driver, but it will get cancelled at POPLA.

 

You/he must decided how you want to word the appeal. I like the idea of taking the sign literally, as you should.

 

It reads as the terms and conditions only apply if the driver is using aston leisure park, so state the driver wasn't...

Edited February 17, 2022 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[Dublindel]

3 Gregories Court

Gregories Road

Beaconsfield

Buckinghamshire

HP9 1HQ

 

Use either address. I use the address I gave you Purley to let them know that I know exactly where they are and that I mean business. It's called playing their game. And I like publishing their actual address.

[ericsbrother]

I have trouble reading the tint font on the sign

but from waht I can make out it isnt a parking contract anyway

so you cant be in breach of it.

 

 

At best it says that a contract exists somewhere but that means that this is an invitation to treat

and you can take it (and ask for the contract to consider) or leave it (carry on as you wish).

 

As UKPC are plainly too thick to know when they are wrong

the appeal is only a formality to show that your mate tried to follow the procedures

and will undoubtedly be rejected.

 

 

what he does after that will depend on whether UKPC decide to harass the keeper

and if they do whether he is up for a longer period of complaining to various bodies about this.

[zydeco]

 a basic appeal to ukpc as the driver saying,

"not a user of the leisure park but attending a call at the request of one of the tenants so the unreadable signage doesn't apply" and wait for the POPLA code?

[armadillo71]

Well yes but make sure it is clear that you interpret the sign to mean it only applies to the leisure park users. Which the driver was not. it doesn't say you can't park there if you are not using the leisure park.

 

If you bring up why the car was there, then it would be an idea to provide something proving that reason.

They may then cancel the charge.... but probably not!

 

But this will be won at POPLA.

 

Send with proof of postage and tell them you have as well

[ericsbrother]

exactly what point(s) are raised in the appeal to UKPC are not that important, they are unlikely to agree to cancel so just get the appeal sent off and await the POPLA code.

All of the relevant points can then be raised and it is satisfying to know that it has cost UKPC £27 for the pleaseure of being told they are wrong.

[zydeco]

Edited February 17, 2022 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[zydeco]

OK, sent off basic appeal - not a user of the park/ signage not visible..

 

Now let's see what happens

[zydeco]

update,

35 days since appealing via ukpc web site and not had a reply, is that game over for them?

[ericsbrother]

no, that CoP was scrapped because the lazy gits were suffering so they complained to the BPA who then dumped the requirement.

However, they cant do anything until they address this matter andeither drop the clai or issue an appeal ref code.

 

You might want to complain to the BPA about this delay though as UKPC are notoriously on their "last chance" and it could be embarrassing for the BPA to get even more complaints about them and do nothing

[zydeco]

Thanks EB, shame about the time limit being scrapped, shall make a complaint to BPA.

[zydeco]

quick update, not heard a thing since the online appeal but looking at my "account" on their website

the charge has gone up to £151.50 which includes £1.50 card charge.

No explanation of the extra £50, on their signs it states £60 will be added if passed to their debt recovery agents and nothing about card charges.

 

ukpc sign daylight.pdf

[ericsbrother]

as you arent paying why worry about their silliness. The sign isnt a contract anyway so you havent breached it. probably isnt even an invitation to treat as it prohibits anyone from parking other than a select few. if you arent one of them you are a trespasser and not subject to any contractual obligations. Normal for UKPC, cant write properly.

[zydeco]

well it looks like ukpc aren't bothering with the appeals procedure, this arrived today (dated 22.6.16) and it looks as if dr+ don't know what template letters they're sending out.

drplus.pdf

[dx100uk]

Bevis does not apply here

Willy waving

[zydeco]

So here we are, nearly Christmas and nothing more from dr+ or ukpc.

 

Slightly related, a workmate got an anpr ticket on a motorway services and the company paid it and deducted it from his wages.

Ongoing argument about this. Our firm just don't understand the difference between a parking charge and a penalty charge