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    • I thought i could just use ( copy and paste)  the terminology from my other post earlier in the year when i previously claimed against P2g .   The parcel hasnt been 'officially ' lost yet i have another 13 days before their 'investigation' ends and then theyll probably offer the postage back as i didnt take the 'insurance'   But to recap ,  The parcel was booked through P2g and sent with Evri. No Protective Insurance was taken out. The parcels value is only £48 plus postage of £3 and the value of the parcel was told The parcels tracking says while it was in Evri's system it was sent to an 'incorrect' depot and tracking would be updated in 24 hrs which it didnt and the delivery date passed, i then had a live chat with P2g who opened an investigation and im waiting to hear what's happened. My only concern is,  last time i claimed P2g made it clear that in future i must take out their protective insurance which i gavent and im wondering whether this will ' complicate' things ...  
    • it is precisely for these reasons that the OP should withdraw the claim and begin again. Firstly, the case has been badly handled from the start. The OP hasn't come to us and stuck to it in a regular engaging way. Secondly, it seems that the OP is now being advised on the basis of it being a matter of principle rather than looking at a sensible and pragmatic outcome. We have a duty to the people who come to help us to try and get the best solution for them that we can. Secondary is that we want to notch up a further victory against the parcel delivery industry – and frankly it doesn't matter which company it is as long as we get a victory. If we simply urge someone to continue a case at their own expense in a claim which has a very reduced chance of success, simply because it gives us personal satisfaction, then this is really contrary to what we do and certainly contrary to the interests of the claimant. I'm now urging the OP (Original Poster) to withdraw and to start again and work with us very closely in order to get a much more certain victory. By continuing this claim, not only with the OP risk even more money, it will take more time in the sense of failure will be demoralising. Better to feel that one is in control by exercising one's own choices and taking the long view
    • Well its online so no. The case should have got pilot directions with WS to be filed by a certain date, likely many months in advance, but as a LIP op can likely say he thought it was 14 days and be let off, P2G can’t.   However for whatever reason the OP seems really sporadic in his attempts.   If i wasn’t so against P2G I’d probably have given up
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Guarantor for student rental - Assured shorthold tenancy


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Hello, I am new to the forum having joined today. I'd be so grateful for any advice please.

 

In September 2015, I signed as a guarantor for my son's first year student rental in a shared house. I understood then (as now) that each renter and guarantor were jointly and severally liable for any debt or damage incurred. This agreement was signed by each party on the understanding that there would be six tenants in a shared house. However the sixth tenant never showed up and the letting agency have failed to find a replacement renter. This has meant bills have had to be shared by 5 instead of 6. The letting agency gave a verbal assurance that the 5 renters wouldn't have to pay for the missing tenant and indeed the 5 students have been paying a sixth of the overall rental each month.

 

Now they have received a demand from the letting agency for the missing rent from the no-show renter, backdated from September. When our son queried why they were not chasing this person's guarantor, they said they'd made several efforts to contact the renter and his guarantor, to no avail - so now the other renters and/or their guarantors were liable.

 

Today the letting agency has admitted the missing renter never did sign any contract with them, so he has no responsibility to pay the rent and neither do his guarantors.

 

At no point has the letting agency advised the 5 tenants to recruit a replacement, or warned them of their liabilities for the room not being let.

 

Any advice would be so greatly appreciated.

 

Thank you.

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Hi Dragnetpickle and Welcome to CAG.

 

I will move your thread to the appropriate forum.

 

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Andy

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I had a similar (ish) situation when my son was a student and shared with 4 others, except that all five occupied the property until one left after four months. Finding another student a few months after starting term proved impossible so it was a very expensive learning curve! We did get someone who just needed a room for a short time which did help a little towards the end of the tenancy.

 

The LL did take the guarantor to court but she had no ability to pay, which was very annoying when all the tenants have to pay for checks to be done for credit worthiness prior to the tenancy starting. (money for old rope!)

 

I you haven't already done so, I think I would approach the landlord to see if he/she is aware of the situation, surely he/she would have been in touch due to the shortfall in rental payments?

 

Having a verbal agreement with the agents and proof of this by the fact that they have accepted the reduced rent, I would have thought should be in your favour and the fact that they have failed to complete the AST for the agreed five students puts them totally at fault.

 

There was an organisation that gave free legal advice for students that we used but it was a couple of years ago now. I'll see if I can find it for you.

 

It's taken a long time for the agents to demand the shortfall so maybe they are suddenly getting grief from the LL!

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Many thanks Dotty for your very helpful posts and also the Shelter link.Today the CAB referred my son to speak to Shelter but it was apparently impossible to get through by phone.

 

I don't know if this will help by way of additional information, but the contract my son signed last September was only signed by him and the other two new tenants, both of whom were also freshers. The other two students had lived in the house the year previously (2014-15) and as they were staying on, apparently either didn't sign new contracts or were subject to separate contractual arrangements.

 

All the tenants (including the missing one) are named in the contract my son and his fellow freshers signed last September, but as the existing tenants weren't asked to sign the agreement it raised no alarm bells when the fourth new tenant hadn't signed it either.

 

If you have any further thoughts Dotty, I'd really appreciate it. Similarly, if any other contributors can advise that would be great.

 

Many thanks.

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What does the contract say?

 

In particular, what does the contract say about who the tenants are, what the rent is, and the liability.

 

Typically, contracts will have terms that discuss the "joint and several liability..." of tenants - i.e. that they are all liable for each other's debts.

 

Also, your guarantor form? Was it signed, does it say that it is a "Deed" and was it witnessed. What does it say you are a guarantor for?

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Hi Steve, many thanks for your reply and also Stu - thanks for the link about HMOs which could be very useful given that the property concerned is in a state of disrepair; another story, another battle!

 

Steve, the contract states the names of the six intended tenants and the rent per month. As you can imagine there are numerous clauses relating to property maintenance, late payments etc, but the only mention of joint and several liability features in a miscellaneous section, where it states: " If two or more persons are together the tenant, their obligations to the Landlord shall be joint and several" I have copied that word for word and therefore apologise for repeating a sentence that is so poorly constructed!

 

The monthly rent is £1950 but since September, the 5 tenants have been paying 1/6 of this (£325 per month) which accords with the verbal assurance received by the letting agency that the 5 tenants would not have to pay the rent for the man who never arrived.

 

Just to make it clear, only my son and two other new tenants signed this contract and initialled each page, despite the names of all six proposed tenants being named on the contract. Two of the six were already in occupation at that point and had been during 2014-15 but as aforementioned, the sixth tenant did not show up or sign this contract. It didn't ring any alarm bells that he hadn't - as neither had the other two tenants and as far as my son or us knew at that point, the 'missing tenant' had already signed a separate contract like the other two longstanding tenants.

 

This is what the guarantor form says (names and addresses redacted) :

PARENT/GUARDIAN GUARANTEE

 

THIS DEED OF GUARANTEE is made on the Date set out below in the Schedule below by the Guarantor hereinafter defined in the said Schedule in favour of the Landlord hereinafter defined in the said Schedule

 

I, the Guarantor, having read a copy of the Tenancy Agreement hereinafter defined in the Schedule and with a view to perform an obligation by the Tenants therein, HEREBY IRREVOCABLY AND UNCONDITIONALLY GUARANTEE the full and complete performance of the Tenancy Agreement by the Tenant hereinafter defined in the

said Schedule and I declare this guarantee shall continue until the full and complete discharge of all obligations by the Tenant in the Tenancy Agreement and shall not be affected in any way by or as a result of the indulgence or waiver given to the Tenant or to any other person or by any neglect or forbearance of the Landlord whatsoever.

 

SCHEDULE

The Date of this Guarantee: ………………………………………………………

The Guarantor: ……………………………………………………………...………………..

of: ……………………………………………………………….………………………… (address)

……………………………………….……………

occupation…………………………..

The Landlord: , (Care of) xxxxxxxxx Property Management, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

 

The Tenant: ………………………........……………...…………..………………...…….........(name)

of: ……………………………………………..………..…………………………………………...……

………………………………...…………….………….…….......………….…...…..…..……(address)

The Property: ………………………………………….……………………….……………...………...

Signed by the Guarantor as a Deed……………………………………………………………………..

In the presence of:

Name of Witness: …………………………………………...…………………………………………..

Signature of Witness: ……………………………………………………………………………………

Address of Witness: …………………………………………………………………………...………...

Occupation of witness: …………..……………………………………………………………………...

 

Guarantors Full Contact Details

Please Complete All Fields

Full Address: ………………………………………………………………………………………

………………………………………………………………………………………

Post Code: ………………………………………………………………………………………

Home Telephone Number: ………………………………………………………………………

Mobile Telephone Number: ………………………………………………………………………

Work Telephone Number: ………………………………………………………………………

Email Address: ………………………………………………………………………

NOTES:

The guarantor must be a UK citizen and live in the UK (unless previously agreed)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

I hope this answers your questions and it would be great to receive further advice.

 

Many thanks to all.

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Goodness this gets more and more complicated!

 

Correct me if I've missed or misunderstood anything.

 

The current contract states the names of the six tenants (2 existing occupiers and 4 new tenants) but it was only ever signed by the three new tenants who moved in?

 

So what contract do the existing 2 tenants have? They should, as far as I am aware have signed the new updated AST with all the (new and existing) occupants listed.

 

The problem remains that the agents failed to secure the sixth tenant and you all should have been advised of this prior to occupation. unless it was agreed that you (the 5 proposed tenants) would try and secure a sixth person, but you had no reason to doubt that six were secured.

 

This what the LL pays for and they should never have agreed to accept the reduced rent. It is highly unlikely that they had the authority to do this, without agreeing it with the LL beforehand and it seems to me that the LL wants his money. Why wouldn't he?

 

You definitely need to get legal advice to sort this asap, I'll keep looking for the organisation my son used but as it's been a couple of years since he left Uni, it's likely that I've shredded everything. I would ensure that everything discussed verbally from now on is followed up by email so that you have a paper trail as evidence, should it be needed. I would also try and copy the LL in anything too then there's no danger of chinese whispers!

 

Not that I want to cause more concern, but have you had confirmation of the scheme where your deposit is held/registered? This is a legal requirement and you should have been given full details of this within so many days of occupation, although it may be stated somewhere in the AST.

 

Finally (for now) you mentioned the state of disrepair. Was a full inventory/inspection done when the tenancy started? Did they pay for one to be done? (it's usually a charge made to the tenants when vacating and occupying) so that there's no doubt in the state of the property inside and out. and that everything is working as it should.

 

When my son left his student house, the LL tried to withhold a huge part of their deposit and we had to put a claim via the deposit protection scheme and won. Photographs are a must and again a paper trail by email could be very important if problems aren't recitified.

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Hi Dotty. Many thanks indeed for your reply.

 

Your understanding of the situation is absolutely correct.

 

It might be helpful to explain that with the exception of the two existing tenants who were obviously known to eachother at that point having lived in the same house for a year, when my son and his fellow first year students signed their contracts in September, all of the other tenants were complete strangers. They were puzzled when the sixth tenant hadn't shown up by the time Freshers week started, but were not unduly concerned as they didn't know if he had a late course start. He was as much a stranger to them as they were to eachother and none of them had any contact details for him. So they were in a slightly unusual situation in the first place as all had arrived at the university through clearing and adjustment, by which time no halls of residence accommodation was available to them.

 

I will ask my son to query the contract (if any) signed by the two longstanding tenants - and will check with him whether he's been informed about the location of his deposit.

 

I agree wholeheartedly that all further communications should be in writing.

 

Regarding the state of the property, we did take photos of our son's room on occupation and all seemed fine. However over the winter, the house has had a damp problem and the tenants also had a faulty (unuseable) shower for months before it was repaired. All of the tenants have incurred losses or health problems as a result of the damp, ranging from mouldy food to severe rashes and mild respiratory problems. Fortunately the tenants have photographs and a full paper trail of their communications with the letting agency, about these problems.

 

I'm not sure if it's relevant as up till this week, we were not overly concerned about the sixth room being vacant but an additional problem is that this particular room will probably be hard to let. It is a loft room with access only via a very steep alternate tread loft ladder. The other tenants rejected it on sight because of its dangers. One of the tenants is now trying to get the local council to inspect the room to see if it complies with building regulations. Obviously if the room is declared unfit for occupation the letting agency's claims will likely dissemble but at the moment the tenants are more concerned about this demand for money out of the blue.

 

The tenants have met the landlord on several occasions and he is aware of the lower rent each individual has been paying and also the absence of the sixth tenant. The tenants do not know if he is aware of the letting agency's recent demand and will be informing him. It's our guess he's (understandably) billing the letting agency for lost revenue - and they are trying to pass the bill on to the hapless students.

 

Hope that's answered a few questions and will report back as soon as I have the other information.

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I'm not a lawyer, but if the contract had been signed by all tenants, the paperwork looks good.

 

It's a bit legalese - "the tenant" singular is used as a collective term for all tenants if there are "two or more".

 

I think you'd need a legal person to tell you what the chances of arguing that the written contract was never agreed to because of the missing tenant.

 

The property certainly sounds like it is an HMO that should be licensed. It sounds like it is on three floors, which means there should be fire doors everywhere. It may be worth threatening to be assertive about calling in the council as a bargaining position.

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Check with the local authority regarding the HMO licence because I think there may be a public register for these properties.

 

The description of the access to the roof space sound 'dodgy' to me!

 

If there are issues with damp, this can be inspected by environmental health.

 

The houses my son lived in had damp issues but some of it can be caused by poor ventilation and not putting the heating on so that it something to bear in mind

 

I just thought I'd add for reference that I have now legal qualifications, all the information has been gleaned from experience having two lads that went to Uni, one moved into a house that was due to be re-possessed within a couple of weeks! The agents soon pulled their finger out to get the deposit back (around 3k!)

The other had a verbally abusive LL who let himself in when he felt like it (until i put him right!)

 

Then the last LL tried to keep the deposit so she could 'tart' up her property at their expense, my deposits adjudicated and found in the students favour but the things she wanted paying for were absolutely ridiculous!

 

They both survived (not sure I did financially) got good degrees and are both happy working so there is light at the end of the tunnel :-)

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