i think my Civil Enforcement PCN is out of time? **WON CANCELLED**

[non techy]

Hi people

 

Can someone confirm if I am correct in thinking that these private parking companies have 14 days from the time of the alleged offence to inform you of the alleged offence if it was by means of cameras.

 

Facts

 

Today 22/2/2016 I received an envelope date stamped the 19-2-2016 with a second class frank stamp on it. Inside was a PCN stating on the 30th January 2016 at 12:43:11 I entered a car park which has free parking for 2.5. It then states I left at 15:42:55. Which meant I had gone over the stated time. The PCN has an issue date of the 19-02-2016.

 

If I am correct do I send a registered letter stating they are out of time and not to contact me again. If I am wrong I apologise for wasting your time.

 

Regards

[dx100uk]

own thread created

 

no I think you are wrong.?

 

what have you received so far?

 

 

dx

[armadillo71]

Hi people

 

Can someone confirm if I am correct in thinking that these private parking companies have 14 days from the time of the alleged offence to inform you of the alleged offence if it was by means of cameras.

 

Facts

 

Today 22/2/2016 I received an envelope date stamped the 19-2-2016 with a second class frank stamp on it. Inside was a PCN stating on the 30th January 2016 at 12:43:11 I entered a car park which has free parking for 2.5. It then states I left at 15:42:55. Which meant I had gone over the stated time. The PCN has an issue date of the 19-02-2016.

 

If I am correct do I send a registered letter stating they are out of time and not to contact me again. If I am wrong I apologise for wasting your time.

 

Regards

 

Can you confirm who the PPC is please?

 

To rely on schedule 4 of the POFA 2012 , which enables keeper liability , then the invoice must be received within 14 days starting on the day after the event.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

 

Any appeal is from the RK and not identifying the driver.

[armadillo71]

Unless this was a hire/lease car... ?

[Dublindel]

You are correct. They have 14 days to get their claim into your hands. If still unsure, read the BPA code of practice and quote the section number to them although they already know this. Ignore further communications or complain to the BPA.

[non techy]

Hi guys

 

Thanks for taking the time to help, I have read schedule 4 of the POFA 2012 , The way I read it is they had 14 days to ask me, clearly they were late so all bets are off. I have tried to upload the letter they sent, but I can not see it on this thread.

 

The company was Civil Enforcement, from Liverpool. Their website was e-service.co.uk

 

The car is registered in my business name but also has my name as point of contact on the Log Book

[ericsbrother]

Ok if the date of the event was the 30/1 then they have 12 days after the date of the event to issue a NTK and 2 further days for service so last date of issue for them would be 11/2 and it has to be with you by the 13/2.

 

They cant even argue that the delay in the post doesnt count as it is deemed served 2 days after posting.

 

 

Some parking co's misuse that by using an issue date that is clearly nowhere near their posmarked date of the letter and then claim the service was in time by dint of that deemed service period.

CEL misuse or ignore every bit of the law so dont be surprised at this screw-up by them.

 

What to do next?

My advice is sometime in the next 28 days send them a letter saying that the requirements for keeper liability under the POFA have not been met and they should now cease any further communication with the keeper or risk a complaint of harassment as both a criminal act and civil tort.

 

Do not use email to contact them, send a letter in the post

 

CEL however will probably ignore you but at least you have a paper trail that shows you followed the protocols so any furhter action by them is doomed.

[non techy]

Thanks ericsbrother, I will send them this by registered post, will update the thread as things happen so other people can see the end result. Thanks again for your time.

 

 

Dear Sir/ Madam

 

Please refer to Schedule 4 of the POFA 2012:

 

“ (5) The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.”

 

Clearly this has not been adhered to therefore your course of action is clearly illegal. I will not respond to any further communication about this matter.

 

However I am pointing out that any further communication from you will amount to harassment under section 2 of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 as I am sure you aware this is a a summary only offence, carrying a maximum of six months' imprisonment and/or a level 5 fine;. As I have clearly pointed out that any further contact will cause either of the above, there is no defence available for you, as you are now aware that it will cause alarm or distress to me.

 

Regards

 

Without Prejudice

[non techy]

P.s For anyone else in the same position don't forget to keep the stamped address envelope which shows they posted the letter by second class post in my case the 19th February 2016.

[renegadeimp]

Thanks ericsbrother, I will send them this by registered post, will update the thread as things happen so other people can see the end result. Thanks again for your time.

 

 

Dear Sir/ Madam

 

Please refer to Schedule 4 of the POFA 2012:

 

“ (5) The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.”

 

Clearly this has not been adhered to therefore your course of action is clearly illegal. I will not respond to any further communication about this matter.

 

However I am pointing out that any further communication from you will amount to harassment under section 2 of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 as I am sure you aware this is a a summary only offence, carrying a maximum of six months' imprisonment and/or a level 5 fine;. As I have clearly pointed out that any further contact will cause either of the above, there is no defence available for you, as you are now aware that it will cause alarm or distress to me.

 

Regards

 

Without Prejudice

 

Do not sent that. Its full of freeman of the land nonsense

[non techy]

Sorry what is freeman of the land

[non techy]

I have now read Freeman Law and can not see what on earth it has to do with the above. The harassment act is not connected anyway shape or form with common law. Sorry I am confused ?????

[armadillo71]

Let's start again.

 

 

Was the NTK actually addressed to you or your company name?

 

 

Does the NTK actually mention Schedule 4 of the POFA?

A PPC does not have to use keeper liability but can only invite the keeper to name the driver as that is who they can ' chase ' for the charge.

That is not illegal.

 

 

But they may be breaking their kadoe contract with the DVLA. If you wish to explore this, then contact the DVLA and demand to know for what reason they have sold your personal/company data to CEL.

Ask if they told the DVLA they were pursuing the charge under schedule 4 of the POFA.

 

 

email - [email protected]

 

Customer Complaint Resolution Team

D16W

DVLA

Swansea

SA6 7JL

 

 

 

 

Any correspondence with a PPC by post should be sent with proof of postage. This is all you need.

 

 

Something that needs a signature can be refused and is a waste of money.

[non techy]

No the PCN was addressed to what is on the log book which is " XYZ Ltd then my name and addresss.

 

There is no mention of Schedule 4 of the POFA. It just states " We therefore require payment of this Parking Charge Notice, in accordance with the parking terms and conditions clearly stated on the signage. "

Edited February 24, 2016 by honeybee13
Company name edited.

[armadillo71]

Ok amend your post #14 if that is the real company name please...

 

 

If they are not suggesting that the keeper could be liable under the POFA, then they can only chase the driver... who they don't know.

 

 

I would suggest a simple response;

 

 

' As registered keeper of vehicle reg. xxx xxx I have received your parking charge notice ref no. xxxx xxxx.

 

 

I wish to make it clear that as RK I am not liable for this charge. Please address all further correspondence regarding this matter to the driver of the vehicle on the date of the event.

 

 

Alternatively issue a valid code for the independent appeals service POPLA.'

[non techy]

Hi Armadillo

 

I will send the letter as you have suggested, will update the thread so people can see the result. This is my first time on the site finding it hard to navigate. When you say amend post 14 as this is the real name, how do I do this as I can not see a edit button.

 

Regards

[honeybee13]

Hi Armadillo

 

I will send the letter as you have suggested, will update the thread so people can see the result. This is my first time on the site finding it hard to navigate. When you say amend post 14 as this is the real name, how do I do this as I can not see a edit button.

 

Regards

 

I've edited the company name, to be on the safe side.

 

HB

[non techy]

Appreciated all your help, fingers crossed will update thread as It progresses.

 

 

Regards

[ericsbrother]

There is a subtle point you can use at POPLA if it goes that far, as the keeper is a limited company there is no obligation to name the driver and no individual is the keeper so cannot be named for keeper liability. In other words, if you dont fess up to being the driver there isnt a person they can pursue as PoFA applies to people not companies.

[non techy]

HI everyone

 

Thank you all for your input.

 

I received a letter today from " Civil Enforcement Ltd, Horton House,Exchange Flags, Liverpool, L2 3PF TeL: 0115 8225020 "

 

 

it stated

 

 

" We refer to recent communications with this office, in respect of the parking contravention enforcement notice.

 

 

We now confirm that this notice has been cancelled "

 

 

epic

 

 

thank you all so much.

 

 

In a nutshell for anyone else in my position check the date from the alleged offence happening till the date they post.

 

 

If its over 14 days they are out of time and luck.

Again if you's had not taken the time to create this blog website,

 

 

I would have lost out, so heres to the lot of you.

[dx100uk]

great news

glad CAG helped

 

 

a small donation wouldn't go a miss

 

 

dx