section 21 - periodic tenancy notice 2 months or 2 FULL CALENDARS?

[penfold66]

Landlord issued a section 21 today with two month's notice stating I must be out by 20th of April. I always thought two full calendar months were required for notice? Meaning I don't leave until 30th April? The original AST was from the 1st of the month.

 

Also the deposit hasn't been protected so technically the section 21 is void...?

[AndyOrch]

Hi penfold

 

To be legal a Section 21 notice must:

 

be delivered in writing and give you at least two months' notice

be on a special form if you signed a new contract or a renewal agreement on or after 1 October 2015

Your landlord must also have followed certain rules for protecting your tenancy deposit and providing you with required tenancy deposit information.

 

Your landlord can't use a section 21 notice to evict you during the fixed term of your contract.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/50/section/21

 

(b)the landlord or, in the case of joint landlords, at least one of them has given to the tenant not less than two months’ notice [F2in writing] stating that he requires possession of the dwelling-house.

 

Andy

[Peterbard]

Landlord issued a section 21 today with two month's notice stating I must be out by 20th of April. I always thought two full calendar months were required for notice? Meaning I don't leave until 30th April? The original AST was from the 1st of the month.

 

Also the deposit hasn't been protected so technically the section 21 is void...?

 

Hi

The section 21 notice has to give two periods , which is the period of payment, so if you pay by calendar month then it is two calendar months etc.

When did he issue the notice , you say you are on a periodic tenancy, so when did the AST end ?

 

You are correct in that he should have given you a copy of the security deposit registration document, if he did not the judge will not grant the possession order, the notice has to be given before the section 21 is sent. There should also be mention of the gas safety tests.

[penfold66]

Hi, bear with me I am a single mother with 3 kids.

 

The AST began 1st July 2014 and was 6 months long, since then it has been rolling.

 

Notice for me to leave has been stapled to the notice to seek posession. There is a gas safety certificate, how legit the guy was who undertook that task I'm not sure, was some random guy with no credentials.

 

So you state the notice period has to be of two paying periods, well I'm reading on other sites that the notice may be two months exact from the day of notice issued. I do indeed pay by calendar month, however. Still confused.

Edited February 21, 2016 by penfold66

[Peterbard]

Hi, bear with me I am a single mother with 3 kids.

 

The AST began 1st July 2014 and was 6 months long, since then it has been rolling.

 

Notice for me to leave has been stapled to the notice to seek posession. There is a gas safety certificate, how legit the guy was who undertook that task I'm not sure, was some random guy with no credentials.

 

So you state the notice period has to be of two paying periods, well I'm reading on other sites that the notice may be two months exact from the day of notice issued. I do indeed pay by calendar month, however. Still confused.

 

Its ok your notice will be two months then(calendar months). Did you receive a copy of the security deposit notice before the sectin 21 was issued ?

[penfold66]

No there's no TPS at all. He only asked for £300 deposit (didn't go through an agent) and said he only required it in case the dogs damage anything. I recently reminded him of this in a text message and he responded that it wasn't a deposit it was a fee so as I could have my two dogs there. I disputed this saying he's lying and he said again via text that I can have the £300 back if there's no damage once I've left. Local help says that this alone is him admitting he took £300 in deposit payment, plus have bank statments to prove it. But like I say I don't think he's even aware of TPS even though the notice he issued me himself states as much quite plainly on the first page lol.

 

Also as I said the notice states I must be gone by the 20th so legally it should be the 30th, yes?

[Peterbard]

No there's no TPS at all. He only asked for £300 deposit (didn't go through an agent) and said he only required it in case the dogs damage anything. I recently reminded him of this in a text message and he responded that it wasn't a deposit it was a fee so as I could have my two dogs there. I disputed this saying he's lying and he said again via text that I can have the £300 back if there's no damage once I've left. Local help says that this alone is him admitting he took £300 in deposit payment, plus have bank statments to prove it. But like I say I don't think he's even aware of TPS even though the notice he issued me himself states as much quite plainly on the first page lol.

 

Also as I said the notice states I must be gone by the 20th so legally it should be the 30th, yes?

 

Sounds decidedly dodgy to me, all deposits must be entered onto a government protection scheme since 2007. deposits are for damage to proerty anyway, I cannot se the difference between that and what he is discribing. Did you get any kind of reciept when he took the money ?

[Peterbard]

In any case he cannot just make you leave when the notice expires, he has to apply to the court, for a repossession order, pay £280 when you get notice form the court you have a further two weeks to enter a defence, before he can apply to the court for a repossession order. then he has to enforce it.

[The Carpet Cleaners]

If you do not wish to leave just yet, say nothing more to the LL.

In order to take it further,he will then have to issue a court summons..... That is when you tell the judge about the deposit, and the non protection... This invalidates the section 21, and the LL then has to either give the deposit back straight away, or protect it. then LL has to issue the section 21 again, and the dates all have to match up to the AST rental period. Then he has to issue the court summons again, and if everything is then in order the Judge must issue an eviction notice. Even then if you do not move out by the eviction notice date the LL has to go back to the court and instruct the bailiff to evict you, this could take up to 2-4 weeks to happen.

 

If you do wish to leave soonest, just pack up and go before the 20th.

 

If you want to drag it out, do not tell the LL and make it easy for him....

[*RainbowTears*]

Yes your moving out by date will be the 30th April, as that's 2 clear calendar months from your T date of the 1st. The LL needs to reissue the Section 21 with the correct dates on it for it to legal. (as per Andy post).

 

And like DB says, if you have not found another property to move into by this date, you can stay where you are until the LL issues Court proceedings for eviction.

 

As for your deposit, it was your LL responsibility to place said deposit in a DPS scheme & give you copies of the paperwork for it. As he has not done so, the £300 should be returned in full back to you. Regardless of any claims he may make re damage/animals.

 

As the deposit was not protected, you could make a claim. More info here;

 

http://m.england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/tenancy_deposits/getting_your_deposit_back/tenancy_deposit_compensation_claims

 

https://www.gov.uk/tenancy-deposit-protection/if-your-landlord-doesnt-protect-your-deposit

 

So do keep the texts & your payment proof for the £300 you paid..

 

I would, in your case suggest you go to your local Council Housing office & speak to them with regards to the above & any other issue you may have with the LL.

 

Good luck!

[mariner51]

Wrong RT, a LL can serve a valid s21 at any time during SPT that expires exactly 2 cal months from date of Service, it does not have to expire at end of a rental period!

If s21 was hand-delivered on 21st Feb it will expire on 20th April, after which LL can seek Court Repo Order, so OP should vacate on/by 2oth April to avoid risk of LL requesting Judge to apply cost of hearing (£280) to T.

 

 

@penfold, how & when was s21 delivered? Also bank statement showing debit of £300 does not prove it was a deposit, only a written receipt can do that.

I am not saying you MUST vacate by 20th April but you should be aware of possible extra costs that could apply if you do not. It could take LL until mid June to legally evict you, even if s21 is valid.

[penfold66]

He delivered it himself today, through letterbox, I wasn't in.

 

Ok so if it's two months from date of notice served, then LL expects me to pay last month's rent then rely on on him repaying 10 days of that when I leave plus the £300? Do you advise that I don't pay any further rent? Because I can bet my bottom dollar he won't be paying back anything and I don't have the funds to take him to court, it's better for me that I'm taken to court by him to recover fund rather than vice versa. It's a pretty unfair game the LL v Tenant business it seems.

[mariner51]

Esp for the LL.

 

 

No I don't advise withholding any rent, as s21 does not terminate Tenancy and full rent is due on rent day. Also it does not absolve you from need to serve valid NTQ to expire on last day of next full rental period. So you could post valid, irrevocable NTQ 1st Class on Mon (deemed served Wed) to expire on last day of March (move out day) so next (last) months rent is not affected, or you could serve it 2nd Mar to expire last day of April and hope LL has not got a hearing date in intervening 10 days.

Your binding NTG for April should give th LL some confidence and saving him the up front hearing fee of £280 until he applies for a later hearing on 1st May, if you have not vacated.

[raydetinu]

does the £300 deposit for whatever appear in the contract anywhere, usually states what the rent is and if any deposit paid? ( proof ).

If deposit not protected, the S21 is invalid and you can just ignore it.

also you can sue for non protection, but can get complicated if not dealt with by judge dealing with the eviction notice.

M51 correct S21 can be issued at any time and is two months notice from any time once gone periodic. ( if valid that is ).

 

 

however, it looks like he wants you out, so start looking, but don't panic you will have a bit of time and suggest you stay until you find somewhere suitable.

[penfold66]

Thanks for the advice so far.

 

So I received a text from LL tonight stating as I haven't responded to any of his messages he is going to be doing a house check. Now I'm aware to tell him he needs to give 24hrs notice IN WRITING, however there are cOmplications to this. What if he says he will be round at say 5pm but doesn't arrive til 6pm? What if I've had to go out after 5pm and he enters my home without me knowing? Wht if he says in his 24hr notice, he will "be round at some point tomorro after noon..."? and so on?

 

And onto the "check" itself. Does he have the right to examine every single room or can do I reserve the right to say "no my bedroom is private?"

Edited February 25, 2016 by penfold66

[penfold66]

Another thing, I've been told that because he's given me notice he has the right to contact the council to get my house allowance sent direct to himself and they will oblige is this true?

[raydetinu]

yes LL can apply to council for payment, however they will only comply if he can show you have not been paying the rent direct him direct.

As for an inspection, he can only 'inspect' at a time/date to suit you! by agreement, however you must be reasonable.

It is the LL property and has every right to look into every room.

As for unauthorized entry, you can change the locks so that is not possible. ( perfectly legal ), but tell LL before you do it; just courtesy.

[penfold66]

Ok so today LL was due to inspect the property. Upon entry this afternoon he immediately asked why he hasn't recevied his rent today. He had already texted me asking why way earlier this morning, and I'd replied stating my benefits have been suspended due to investigation. Despite this he said "right first of all I wanna know....". My response was "no u are here to do an inspection please undertake that or I will call the police." He refused to carry it out before trying to force me to talk so I phoned the police.

 

Long and short of it, the police arrived half hour after they'd gone (him and his wife). They stated LL's are allowed to enter their own house WHENEVER THEY FEEL LIKE IT IS NOT A CRIMINCAL OFFENCE and that it is a civil matter only. I said to the officer "so you're telling me any LL can simply enter his own property regardless of tenants any time of the day or night and you can't make him leave due to him committing an offence?" Their response was that is correct. Unless there is a breach of the peace or something any LL can enter any of their homes as they please and not budge. I was astounded and felt like suggesting the officer was clueless about law. But maybe they were right? I mentioned forums like this and law pages etc and they simply said yes you will be told by people online what the law is and they're all wrong.

 

Furthermore, the LL said he will be doing another check on the first of next month, as I've read elsewhere apparently law states he can only enter to do urgent repairs. My god WHAT IS THE LAW???????????

[mariner51]

LL gave due Notice, attended as arranged and you let him in to HIS property (your temp home). No Breach of the Peace occurred so Police not interested.

However, you are in Breach of Contract (civil offence). It is your resp to pay full rent by due date, so not the Council's fault that you got 'sanctioned'.

 

 

No sensible LL would enter their property at any time without due Notice/invitation, unless in an emergency or to secure his property.

 

 

Much of LL&T Law is based on Common/Civil. most of which is not Criminal Law.

[penfold66]

Indeed so it would seem. I am going to buy a house, rent it out then proceed to let myself in at 3am to watch tv as it's perfectly legal. Damn the rights I will have as a LL can't wait