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PaddyDuffy

How to proceed , advise please

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Hi everyone , i am looking for advice on how to proceed with this nightmare.

 

I bought a car with 6 months warranty included ,

it had service history & the last service had been carried out on 3/12/2015

I bought the car on the 21/01/2016.

 

On Monday 14 it just stopped with no power in the vehicle [ had to push it home] .

 

I called out a mechanic who said it needed a new starter motor as he could get the one i the car to turn

& he advised i needed a electrical diagnostics service due to my description of how it lost power & stopped,

 

new starter fitted under warranty & the diagnostics

 

but has today informed me the the engine has seized ,

 

we checked the oil & it was dry as a bone ,

 

bearing in mind the last service on the 3/12/2016 is stamped " oil & filter change" .

 

At no time did an oil light come on to alert me

but the diagnostics guy said this does happen when oil can sometimes cover the sensor

 

but he thinks whoever did the supposed service that they forgot to top the oil back up after draining it

& he said he has come across this a few times from garages.

 

My question is

 

i have had the starter motor fitted under warranty ,

paid for the diagnostics my self but can claim the cost back.

 

How do i proceed in regards to getting my money back & returning the car ,

what proof do i need from the mechanic & diagnostics guys .

 

The engine is totally seized & that is the fault of the garage IMHO .

 

Any advise will be very appreciated , thanks .

Edited by citizenB
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This contract is governed by the new Consumer Rights Act.

 

It's new and we haven't used very much on this forum and so I can't remember the fine detail at the moment.

However, what I do know is that you have important rights for the first 30 days of your purchase.

 

By my calculation the 30 days expires tomorrow so you need very badly to give them a letter tomorrow – delivered by hand – keep a copy – outlining the problems with the car and the fact that you are rejecting under the consumer rights act.

 

This is essential that you do this. I'm assuming that they will be open tomorrow. If not then post it in the letter box and to anticipate any trouble, get somebody with you to photograph you putting the letter into the letterbox and also who is prepared to support you with a statement.

 

If they are closed tomorrow then you need to go into the garage first thing on Monday morning and give them another copy of the letter and point out that you hand-delivered one on Saturday within 30 days.

 

I'm going to go and check the Consumer Rights Act and I'll come back with a bit more detail about your rights. However, you could go and check them yourself as well.

 

 

Within 30 days you have a right to reject

 

You can read about it at the links posted below.

 

 

The right to reject is here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?448221-20-Right-to-reject

 

And here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?448223-22-Time-limit-for-short-term-right-to-reject

Edited by BankFodder
..

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Hi bankfodder ,

 

i don`t have any chance of getting to the garage tomorrow. Can i not do it via email ? , i live nearly 50 mls away from the garage & have no vehicle or anyone who can help me in this respect.

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cld do an email

then follow it up with a hard copy letter, posted tomorrow at the post office (some are open saturday) for next working day delivery ie monday?


IMO

:-):rant:

 

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cld do an email

then follow it up with a hard copy letter, posted tomorrow at the post office (some are open saturday) for next working day delivery ie monday?

 

Thanks Ford , do i outline why i am returning the vehicle , list the faults & say that under the Consumer rights act i now wish to return it?

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Hi all,

i have sent an email via their email facility on their website as they have no physical email address on any paperwork or on the website.

 

 

I have taken screen shots of the email sent with time & dates.

 

 

I have asked for the vehicle to be removed & for a refund of my purchase price ,

 

 

i added that i had both a mechanic & diagnostics to look at the vehicle

& in their opinion the engine has seized & therefore not fit for purpose .

 

 

I will send a hard copy over the weekend & we shall see what their reaction is ,

 

 

i did`t tell them about it not having any oil in even after a supposed oil & filter replacement done with the service .

 

 

I can only wait & see now , any further advise would be helpful but in the mean time thanks for all the help so far.

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The thirty days stated under the new Consumer Rights Act 2015 is not a cut off date after which no rejection or refund can be demanded.

 

If the right to reject isn't made within the 30 days, you can demand a repair or a replacement.

 

If they can't or wont fix the fault, you can insist on a reduction or reject the car and get a full refund.

 

If you should decide you like the car and would like a reduction, then get a quote from a reliable engine rebuilding company and make that the reduction based on their quote, this must also include the labour as well.

If they decide to repair, they will look for a used engine, which is their right, and replace it with that. The problem with this is that the replacement engine could have double the mileage of the one in the car.

Edited by Conniff

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you have had the car for 2 months and havnt checked the oil?

think you going to have to take some responsibility for this

have you checked the tyres,water,etc?

 

 

I don't do this either but my husband checks all this for me every week

as I don't understand any of it.

 

 

but he also says the starter was fitted incorrectly and its easy to check if the engine is seized.

you also havnt said how many miles you have done in the car or the make

and model the milage or how old the car is, as some cars do use oil.

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I suggest you re read the OP , very slowly so as it can sink in .

 

 

If this is not possible then i would get your " husband" to explain it too you.

 

 

Calculations don`t seem to be your strong point either.

 

 

To say i am skeptical of your claims to be a woman who knows nothing about motors

would be an understatement ,

 

 

considering that the vast majority of your posts are in fact on motoring topics

it does seem rather strange to say the least.

 

 

I would rather you did`t post on this particular thread again as i won`t be taking anything

you have to say with any seriousness or gravitas.

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I think it's a valid point about checking the oil, I would certainly be checking it at least one a week in a new to me car to assess the oil consumption. Some engines are notorious for getting through oil.

 

If it was a failure to replenish the oil after a service, I can't see the engine lasting 2 days let alone 2 months.

 

I don't know what this 'oil can sometimes cover the sensor', that's the reason why there was no dashboard warning is all about. Some cars have a dual function warning light which will show amber for a low level warning and red for a low pressure warning. In all the cars that I have been in the pressure warning always comes on with the ignition as a form of self check, oil pressure switches have a constant coating of oil - yet they still work.

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It might be a valid point but any car that burnt a sump full of oil in such a short period would have a blue cloud behind it to warn something was wrong.

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There are other ways that an engine can lose a whole sump full of oil in a short space of time without burning it. For example, sumps can and do get damaged, and due to how thin oil gets when hot, you could lose most if not all of it in a few miles and not see any smoke if it all just poured onto the road under the car. Some are made of mild steel, and this can rust and eventually leak. Some are made of aluminium alloy and this can fracture or become weakened by impact from objects hitting it from under the car, ready to break or leak another day.

 

Another way oil can be lost is if the oil filter is not fitted correctly. The external metal type literally screw onto a thread which sticks out of the side of the engine near the bottom, and if not tightened properly, they can become loose and fall of into the road. It's unusual but it's easy for a mechanic to forget to tighten something up. The sump drain bolt is another possible culprit. Some of them have a copper washer. Some manufacturers specify that these should be replaced at a service. Some mechanics simply heat them up to soften them, and then refit the old one. Other mechanics just refit without bothering. If the drain bolt was not tightened enough, it could work loose and fall out, thus emptying all the oil from the engine onto the road. If an over zealous mechanic or trainee has tightened the bolt excessively, the thread could have become damaged, meaning it could at some later stage, work loose and fall out.

 

Oil lights don't always work. Sometimes they just don't work at all. Sometimes they light up when you start the car, so you may think the system is ok, but if the oil pressure suddenly drops, they may or may not light up in time for the driver to be able to stop and switch the engine off before it's too late to prevent damage. I've known some cars (the old Austin Metro for example) where the engine and the gearbox shared the same oil and the same sump, and on fast cornering, it wasn't unusual to see the oil light flicker as the oil moved over to the opposite side of the sump to where the oil light switch was located.

 

One last thing. Modern synthetic engine oils burn with less visible smoke than the old mineral oils, so a driver could be forgiven for not knowing it was being burnt until it was too late. You might possibly notice the smell if you were sitting in traffic and the fumes came into the car, but on a run, it would be other drivers who'd get to breathe it in, not you.

Edited by TheLeeds

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This is my first post. I run a motoring club for women and we check out and approve garages and car dealers for Club members. There is a lack of genuinely measurable quality standards re used car sales as this exemplifies. I can't fault the advice given here but you might also research the new CTSI (Chartered Trading Standards Institute) Code of Practice scheme run by Motor Codes re warranty providers. (Sorry I am not allowed to provide the Motor Codes link here as I am too new a subscriber!)

 

You'd need to check that the warranty provider in question is covered by this (most are) and hopefully you'll get advice from Motor Codes. If applicable the garage will be required to provide ADR/mediation services. My sympathies and I wish you a speedy resolution.

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Hello Steph. If your not running a commercial company for profit, there is no reason why you can't name your club on here :)

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Hello Steph. If your not running a commercial company for profit, there is no reason why you can't name your club on here :)
Thank you for the invite. I run a 'not for profit' membership club for women drivers called FOXY Lady Drivers Club. That's Foxy as in shrewd and canny, just for the record.:wink:

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I've got a Peugeot 207 Sport 1.4ltr ( 1.4ltr Sport? I know, I know) that uses around 1 litre of oil a month. No leaks internally or externally. Think I'll join OPEC😄

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Hi all. update.

 

the dealer rang me on Monday & it was a frosty ish conversation.

 

 

I paid for the diagnostics

as the maximum amount the warranty company pay would not have covered his fees,

 

 

i paid the full amount & will swallow the extra £20 ,

 

 

the dealer has sent me an email saying he finds this " very concerning" ,

 

 

i replied to the email & he has disabled his email service ,

been working away so i am finding it hard to get the time to deal with this.

 

 

I followed the warranty procedure for a break down,

called mechanic in originally & he recommended the diagnostics guy .

 

 

In my conversation with the dealer he said the mechanic was wrong,

there was no need to to this & no need to do that .

 

 

All he did was fit a new starter motor & i got the diagnostics done,

the bottom line is i have had & run a car for 3 weeks 3days

& from what i have been told is the engine has seized .

 

 

At no point was there a warning light,

any smoke or a smell that there might be a top up required,

 

 

i know posters are saying it should of been checked [ by me] & i can see their point

but it clearly states in the on the last service stamp " oil & filter change" ,

no warning light ,

no smell ,

no smoke so i did`t see a problem .

 

 

This is wearing me down now,

what can i do as i need to get this moving forward ,

 

 

disabling your website email & not contacting me in regards to this matter

is a sign it is not going to be easy i fear .

 

Thanks Foxy ,

 

 

i will have a look at your suggestions when i get time,

i travel the country for work so its hard to get time to sort stuff

but i will get round to it.

 

 

Any suggestions as to where i go from here?.

 

 

Thanks for all the advice .

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Your next move is to write by Royal Mail signed for and 'tell' him what you want, let him know he has 48 hours in which to respond. If no response within that time then you send him a letter before action again giving him 48 hours and saying that if the resolution you have demanded is not met within that time, you will take it to the small claims court.

 

You can't take any nonsense from car dealers, they know the rules and regulation and just stick a middle finger up to them and any customers who have the gall to complain.

 

Don't threaten court if you are not prepared to go through with it.

 

If he refuses to sign for a letter, that matters not as the law say he is deemed to have received it.

Edited by Conniff

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It might be worth paying for an engineer's report on the state of the car, and the likely causes of the problem, just in case you do have to go to court with this. The cost would in theory, be recoverable against the seller if your claim was successful.

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It might be worth paying for an engineer's report on the state of the car, and the likely causes of the problem, just in case you do have to go to court with this. The cost would in theory, be recoverable against the seller if your claim was successful.

if it progresses, seems likely that an independent court expert may be required, jointly instructed. may as well wait for that?


IMO

:-):rant:

 

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Thank you for the invite. I run a 'not for profit' membership club for women drivers called FOXY Lady Drivers Club. That's Foxy as in shrewd and canny, just for the record.:wink:

 

Welcome and as for the 'That's Foxy as in shrewd and canny', yep, we believe you ;)

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if it progresses, seems likely that an independent court expert may be required, jointly instructed. may as well wait for that?

Fair point.

Where is the car now ? The reason I ask is this. Depending on the length of time between now and any proceedings and instructions for an inspection, storage charges for a car parked at a garage or in a compound can escalate and in some cases, add up to more than the value of the car if there is a sufficiently long delay between the initial problem and the matter being actioned.

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Further update.

 

I have been contacted by the dealer who would like to come & inspect the car & see what has caused the problem. I think it is only fair that they should be given this chance but is there anything i should do to safeguard the situation.

 

Thanks in advance.

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Fair point.

Where is the car now ? The reason I ask is this. Depending on the length of time between now and any proceedings and instructions for an inspection, storage charges for a car parked at a garage or in a compound can escalate and in some cases, add up to more than the value of the car if there is a sufficiently long delay between the initial problem and the matter being actioned.

fair point.

but, the OP has had it diagnosed by an ind garage, which said what it said. maybe a jointly instructed ind court approved can be done earlier to preempt.

and as OP has just posted, is being reasonable to let the seller inspect the car. maybe such a report can be done after that if there is still a dispute after that?

 

paddy. can observe, take any necessary contemporaneous notes/photos/video, etc


IMO

:-):rant:

 

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