When your Home is your car - what happens when the bailiff calls ??

[mikeymack2002]

My mate that is a copper asked me a really strange question regarding this subject. He had stopped a vehicle in this case no VED (tax) that had its owner listed at a mail box. The owner said he was homeless and living in the car.

 

Unfortunately for this driver there was a warrant out for their arrest for non-payment of fines. (traffic offences) unfortunately he was arrested and put before the Courts the next day.

 

As for hiding his home address behind the mailbox we discovered that under the DVLA rules you have to register a vehicle at a residential address. The rules for this are in the DVLA site if you care to look for them try looking for how to fill in your application form page four.

 

In EU law these are covered in Article 7 of the second European Directive on driving licences (91/439/EEC), see here for more details >> http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:31991L0439&from=EN

 

More information regarding the subject of DVLA enforcement can be found here >> https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/403028/Vehicle_Enforcement_Policy__revised_.pdf

 

Document published – February 2015

 

Review date – August 2015

 

This is also an interesting subject for enforcement of various Court orders and the like. Also that by hiding behind the mailbox the debtor tried their best to keep their home address secret. It failed on this occasion.

 

Finally there are the offences relating to not providing your correct address on your license and V5. Both of these carry a large penalty. As you can see you are making much more trouble for yourself in trying to hide where you live, if you have an EA that has a warrant for lets say a PCN. They can still clamp the vehicle anyways.

 

Then you have the same issues if you have outstanding fines and try to leave the country by normal means the Police and BA can detain you as well. See the article by the BBC some time ago here >> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-28056950

 

More information on proving your identity and residence regarding licenses and or a V5 form can be found here >> https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/new-registrations

 

One of the many questions regarding hiding behind a mailbox is that of enforcement and trying to hide goods that maybe subject to being controlled by an EA.

 

Your thoughts please...

Edited February 18, 2016 by citizenB
formatting

[Peterbard]

I think he should be more worried about his insurance if he is homeless and living in the car ? Fine next day ? yeah right.

[Bailiff Advice]

My mate that is a copper asked me a really strange question regarding this subject. He had stopped a vehicle in this case no VED (tax) that had its owner listed at a mail box. The owner said he was homeless and living in the car.

 

Unfortunately for this driver there was a warrant out for their arrest for non-payment of fines. (traffic offences) unfortunately he was arrested and put before the Courts the next day.

 

As for hiding his home address behind the mailbox we discovered that under the DVLA rules you have to register a vehicle at a residential address. The rules for this are in the DVLA site if you care to look for them try looking for how to fill in your application form page four.

 

This is also an interesting subject for enforcement of various Court orders and the like. Also that by hiding behind the mailbox the debtor tried their best to keep their home address secret. It failed on this occasion.

 

There seems to be an awful lot of inconsistencies with what you have written above !!

 

Firstly, the individual in question, according to the police was homeless. Therefore, he did not have a home address. Instead, he appears to have registered his vehicle at a mailbox. I am struggling to understand why you mentioned four times that this person was 'hiding' his home address behind a 'mailbox'.

[citizenB]

Ignore.. the question has been asked.

[unclebulgaria67]

I think what the person concerned has done is simply set up a mail box address, so Royal Mail deliver to the mail box on redirection.

 

I can't believe that DVLA or any other organisation would allow a mail box address to be given on any official application. There is a registration of mail box addresses which are flagged on most systems to stop it happening. Otherwise you would have people who were travelling around the country with everything registered to a mail box company.

 

If you check mail box companies, they require by law evidence of identity and address by supplying various documents, which must include driving licence or passport, utility bill or credit card bill.

 

I asked this question months ago about the travelling community. Apparently what they do is register Insurance, licences and most other things at an address of a friend they know in various parts of the country. There was one address in the north of England, where they had to deliver the post using a van. Unofficial mailbox address for travellers. This will get flagged by companies, as they check all records to see if an address is being used by multiple people.

[Coughdrop]

unfortunately he was arrested and put before the Courts the next day.

 

 

What was the outcome of this court case please? It all seems highly improbable to me.

[Peterbard]

What was the outcome of this court case please? It all seems highly improbable to me.

 

With all due respect to the OP, I think the word is impossible CD. #lol

[Peterbard]

I think what the person concerned has done is simply set up a mail box address, so Royal Mail deliver to the mail box on redirection.

 

I can't believe that DVLA or any other organisation would allow a mail box address to be given on any official application. There is a registration of mail box addresses which are flagged on most systems to stop it happening. Otherwise you would have people who were travelling around the country with everything registered to a mail box company.

 

If you check mail box companies, they require by law evidence of identity and address by supplying various documents, which must include driving licence or passport, utility bill or credit card bill.

 

I asked this question months ago about the travelling community. Apparently what they do is register Insurance, licences and most other things at an address of a friend they know in various parts of the country. There was one address in the north of England, where they had to deliver the post using a van. Unofficial mailbox address for travellers. This will get flagged by companies, as they check all records to see if an address is being used by multiple people.

 

Also there is nothing wrong with using a registered mail box, I have used one myself in the dim and distant. Working from home , a lot of mail due to the type of business, much more efficient to have a separate address for your companies mail, also had a separate phone line for business as well , I suppose that would be "hiding my number".

All invoices for company debts(car maybe) would go to my company address(where else would it go)?

[ploddertom]

 

As for hiding his home address behind the mailbox we discovered that under the DVLA rules you have to register a vehicle at a residential address.

 

 

You really need to think before you type as my vehicles are all registered at my business address which is certainly not residential.

[Coughdrop]

You really need to think before you type as my vehicles are all registered at my business address which is certainly not residential.

 

Of course, otherwise where would someone like Rentacar or the RAC stand?

 

This case seems to have been dreamt up on the back of a fag packet as far as I can see. Are you sure it wasn't a dream?

[Peterbard]

More like the result of someone else's fantasy, i am guessing.

[mikeymack2002]

What was the outcome of this court case please? It all seems highly improbable to me.

 

 

I am not privy to that information. The driver already had outstanding warrants not backed by bail possibly! I believe this if the person was put before the courts the next day!!!

 

 

For your information if the Police have done a PNC check on the driver and is wanted, they are arrested detained and dealt with, this is indeed very normal with any Police service, just call them and aske them if you don't believe me...

 

 

The outcome could have been more time or sentenced to a period of time in Jail, considering NFA!!

[caledfwlch]

AFAIK it's not an offence to "hide" assets from an EA, unless he has levied upon them, and the debtor then removes and hides those assets.

 

All the TCOGA has done is remove the situation where an EA can be at the front door and a friend or family member at the back door, selling any levyable assets to someone else. The Court Warrant now means that Assets cannot be sold or transferred as soon as the Warrant is live, but it does not oblige a debtor to inform an EA as to the location of their assets.

 

Some Government Organisations such as the DWP use non residential addresses, including sometimes iirc Park Benches as a "residential address" for clients, such as homeless people.

 

If a person subject to a CCJ was using a Mailbox, and that is how the LBA etc was issued by the Plaintiff, the Debtor is again not committing any offence, it would be up to the Plaintiff and his Agents, whether EA's, HCEO's or debt collectors to try and get a "real" address.

 

One problem I have noticed is that people who are the subject of EA action, but are now homeless, have used a Care Of address, using a family members, and of course the EA's then assume they live at that property and are keen to get in and levy, so a Mailbox seems a much more sensible arrangement since it does not put your relations or friends at risk.

[Consumer dude]

I'm trying to visualise sending a recorded delivery to a person at a park bench..

[caledfwlch]

AFAIK they only use it at the DWP, with a note to state client is homeless, so dont post email unless for example a social worker's office is available as a "care of"address for letters. It would not be used for anything else, such as ordering from Amazon!

[mikeymack2002]

BA since you have stated that you hate others correcting you other and that you find this offensive. Prey tell me where you HAVE ANY RIGHT to correct ME in how I write? This now makes you just as bad as those having a bop at you and DB....

 

NOT nice not correct and none of your business. Nose, big, keep out of my method of writing.

 

As it is I have already made complaints about you recently. About things. Hence why the change in when you can edit a post..

 

I write how I write after all I do have a significant brain injury as you are very well aware of...

 

Don't bully anymore and please keep your rude and insulting comments to yourself. End of...

 

If I get banned so be it.

[unclebulgaria67]

I'm trying to visualise sending a recorded delivery to a person at a park bench]

 

There are large numbers of people in the UK without a permanent residential address. Some have cars, probably many without Insurance etc. But they do somehow seem to get by.

 

There was a programme on homeless people in Bristol who were living in a cave at night and working during the day. People seem to be able to live without getting post. With many things now online, they can probably create a profile using an address where they don't actually live and print stuff off at an internet cafe. There are people involved in sc*ms where they buy Insurance using an address to get a cheap Insurance certificate, which they sell on to others. You get people phoning Insurance companies where they have received policy documents for someone not living at an address.

[Peterbard]

I'm trying to visualise sending a recorded delivery to a person at a park bench..

 

Probably delivered by pigeon post.

[citizenB]

BA since you have stated that you hate others correcting you other and that you find this offensive. Prey tell me where you HAVE ANY RIGHT to correct ME in how I write? This now makes you just as bad as those having a bop at you and DB....

 

NOT nice not correct and none of your business. Nose, big, keep out of my method of writing.

 

As it is I have already made complaints about you recently. About things. Hence why the change in when you can edit a post..

 

I write how I write after all I do have a significant brain injury as you are very well aware of...

 

Don't bully anymore and please keep your rude and insulting comments to yourself. End of...

 

If I get banned so be it.

 

 

MM, I am not quite sure what is going on here - but BA has not criticised or insulted you on this thread ? She has asked a couple of questions, which I also asked afterwards removing my post because others had beaten me to it ?

 

 

I must confirm also that the reason the 10 minute edit was brought in had nothing to do with any complaints made by any cagger - it was brought in to prevent the heavy editing that has occurred on frequent occasions when someone has asked a question - not received the response they like so have edited their post to make it look as though the responder is either giving bad advice or picking on them ?

[Peterbard]

I'm trying to visualise sending a recorded delivery to a person at a park bench]

 

There are large numbers of people in the UK without a permanent residential address. Some have cars, probably many without Insurance etc. But they do somehow seem to get by.

 

There was a programme on homeless people in Bristol who were living in a cave at night and working during the day. People seem to be able to live without getting post. With many things now online, they can probably create a profile using an address where they don't actually live and print stuff off at an internet cafe. There are people involved in sc*ms where they buy Insurance using an address to get a cheap Insurance certificate, which they sell on to others. You get people phoning Insurance companies where they have received policy documents for someone not living at an address.

 

I think in this case the police would be far more interested in the car not being legally insured as that is a far more serious offence,

[mikeymack2002]

One of the other reasons for posting what I did at post #1 was what are the implications of having a mailbox and being issued a PCN and then it going to enforcement. If this is the case and if the EA gets a hit with their ANPR vans they would be more likely to take that vehicle then and there.

 

 

So would it be right and correct to do this? For one, 2nd if the person is homeless and living in a vehicle as others have stated the DWP do accept this as well, I've been there myself, hence why I asked. I lived in a van for 3 months because of one thing and another. The main reason not having a deposit for a new home due to my previous LL not giving me my deposit back.

 

 

I had to save and work so the cheapest thing was for me to live in my van, this was the lowest point of my life. I then got a home and put all of the correct details on my V5/license/ tax and Insurance. Lucky for me I didn't get a PCN, but was moved on several times during this period. It was the Police themselves that told me I was not supposed to do this and that I could get into trouble for it, including County/local bylaw offences too boot.

 

 

Now I am settled and have my own home I would not allow myself to be like I was then. So yes I know that what I said was true, not made up and certainly not looking to annoy people. It is also of interest to me because recently there have been some evictions in my home town regarding living where one shouldn't, this included being subject to the EA.... This was people living in tents so here is the link to verify the truth, >> http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/13582264.Campaigners_pledge_to_fight_seafront_evictions/ All of this happened in the winter of 2009 to 01/2010 when i was given a home by my LA

 

Back in 2015, Debbie Adams highlighted the number of people who were forced to live in their cars due to the benefit cuts !1

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/housing-crisis-benefit-cuts-force-5860898

Edited February 19, 2016 by citizenB
added some information

[citizenB]

MM, I am absolutely certain that no one has meant any disrespect or hurt against you. I strongly believe that people dont really understand the purpose of the thread in the manner it was started !

 

 

I suspect there has been some misunderstanding with the thread, not intentional but some of the comments made might be a little hurtful - can we please, all of us, think a little before posting

Edited February 19, 2016 by citizenB

[citizenB]

Having read thread again and spoken to MM, I can see the point he was trying to make - so perhaps the only issue here is the thread title.

 

MM was/is trying to highlight the issues around someone who might have to live in their car and as you probably cannot give a Registration number as an "address" then a mail box or a friend's address are the only options.

 

As it has been highlighted so many times , using a friends address can swiftly lead to the loss of a friendship, especially if the homeless person has any debts or fines that might lead to a bailiff presence.

 

I hope I have understood the situation correctly.

[mikeymack2002]

Thanks for your help CB. Thinking of a new title for a thread can be fraught with well. Enough on that matter. To continue this delicate subject I was going to add some links to recent news stories about living in a car so here is one to start.

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/housing-crisis-benefit-cuts-force-5860898

 

A second reason for my post was to see what others think about what if the person living in the car was subject to PCN debt? Can the EA legally take control of the vehicle if it is the debtor's only home?

 

Other good points will be added during this discussion.

 

I will publicly say sorry to anyone that has been offended by this thread or its contents.

 

This post is about possibly losing your 'home' the car

[mikeymack2002]

Secondly maybe someone could think of a better thread title?