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The European Union.....In or Out?


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But as we have seen, there are options for sending back EU citizens who just sit here on benefits without work provided its done in the first three months NOW - Just like Belgium is. - if the government actioned them as the populace seemingly want

 

.. and the government is choosing to let none-EU migrants in, we don't have too.

 

There is still the issue of benefits being sent to support family/children elsewhere - which needs properly addressing but is probably NOT a massive amount - yet

 

If you are going to train a virus to escape vaccine-induced immunity

you would do exactly what (England) are doing

Jemma Geoghegan - evolutionary virologist, University of Otago

+ the vast majority of the worlds scientific community

 

"unrepentant and inveterate liar" “Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

Boris Johnson Mendax est

Remember when Johnson or Patel are on stage - Its your choice to BOOO

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But as we have seen, there are options for sending back EU citizens who just sit here on benefits without work provided its done in the first three months NOW - Just like Belgium is. - if the government actioned them as the populace seemingly want

 

.. and the government is choosing to let none-EU migrants in, we don't have too.

 

There is still the issue of benefits being sent to support family/children elsewhere - which needs properly addressing but is probably NOT a massive amount - yet

 

Britain cannot deport thousands of failed asylum seekers because

there is nowhere to send them, deportation sounds easy, it sounds

a common sense thing to do. But the truth is most of these illegal

migrants have got no place to be deported to.’

 

Some refuse to disclose their nationalities and even burn their passports,

they exploit human rights laws that bar expulsion of failed asylum seekers

the UK had become a 'soft touch'.

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It won't be long now until Turkey joins and that means another 75 million will be entitled to come here and there is no way of stopping them.

 

You are absolutely correct it is frightening, unless we get out I feel very afraid for my children and grandchildren, god help us.

 

 

We have no control over immigration and it lowers wages. Research by the GMB union has found there has been a 13.8% fall in the real value

of average earnings since 2008.

 

A vast influx of unskilled labour from Eastern Europe does not benefit ordinary people, who see their wages undercut and their jobs put at risk.

 

EU leaders have publicly stated that the UK has absolutely NO chance of changing EU freedom of movement rules.

 

My conclusion is clear, that inside the EU we lose power, money and the freedom to choose who comes into our country. Post Brexit, we regain all

these things. Outside the EU we can introduce an Australian-style points system to allow in the people we need.

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Britain cannot deport thousands of failed asylum seekers because

there is nowhere to send them, deportation sounds easy, it sounds

a common sense thing to do. But the truth is most of these illegal

migrants have got no place to be deported to.’

 

Some refuse to disclose their nationalities and even burn their passports,

they exploit human rights laws that bar expulsion of failed asylum seekers

the UK had become a 'soft touch'.

 

 

To request asylum, they must state where they are from.

 

If they are illegal, send them back to wherever they last came from, that would STOP countries just letting them in as long as that country believes the migrants will just move on somewhere else and not stay.

 

Its the whole basis of the regulations, laws and agreements that state that asylum applications should be processed in the first 'safe' country they come to.

 

If an application fails - they go back to their own country, or the last place they came from if they lie or refuse to co-operate.

 

Its taken over a year, but at long last almost everyone is starting to realise why those agreements and laws were put in place that way....

 

If you are going to train a virus to escape vaccine-induced immunity

you would do exactly what (England) are doing

Jemma Geoghegan - evolutionary virologist, University of Otago

+ the vast majority of the worlds scientific community

 

"unrepentant and inveterate liar" “Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

Boris Johnson Mendax est

Remember when Johnson or Patel are on stage - Its your choice to BOOO

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Yes MEN wrong on the Euro.

 

“The decision to launch the single currency….marks stability and

growth and is crucial to high levels of growth and employment.”

-Tony Blair, 1998

“Unless we come off the fence over joining the Euro…we will slip

backwards in Europe.”

-Peter Mandelson, 2003

“The euro…has provided great internal stability to the Eurozone.”

-Nick Clegg, 2002

“The euro has been a rock of stability.”

-Labour MEP, Richard Corbett, 2009

Wrong then, wrong now.

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I don’t think we can afford to me members of the EU.

 

There are almost 2 million people unemployed in the UK.

Young people are suffering with the worst youth unemployment

rate for 20 years; and half a million of them are without jobs.

 

Up and down this country, there are people going hungry,

queuing up at food banks, and not getting the proper health care

that they need.

 

Yet, what is the British Government doing?

 

Sending £17 billion a year of YOUR money to the European Union.

 

peanuts isn't it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_United_Kingdom_bank_rescue_package

 

 

https://www.nao.org.uk/highlights/taxpayer-support-for-uk-banks-faqs/

 

 

Peak support (£bn) Guarantee commitments 1,029 Cash outlay 133 Total peak support 1,162

 

- Over 1.1 Trillion pounds - and thats only the peak spend.

 

If you are going to train a virus to escape vaccine-induced immunity

you would do exactly what (England) are doing

Jemma Geoghegan - evolutionary virologist, University of Otago

+ the vast majority of the worlds scientific community

 

"unrepentant and inveterate liar" “Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

Boris Johnson Mendax est

Remember when Johnson or Patel are on stage - Its your choice to BOOO

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Particular if you consider that if all our MP's did a Dunny-can Smith on their breakfasts every day (excluding weekends and holidays) - that could be over £6,000,000 pounds (yes 6 Million pounds) of tax payer money just on MP's breakfasts every year.

 

Think how much the bill for their lunches will be, let alone second homes/London rent + travel expenses - with many claiming DESPITE having homes in London ...

 

If you are going to train a virus to escape vaccine-induced immunity

you would do exactly what (England) are doing

Jemma Geoghegan - evolutionary virologist, University of Otago

+ the vast majority of the worlds scientific community

 

"unrepentant and inveterate liar" “Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

Boris Johnson Mendax est

Remember when Johnson or Patel are on stage - Its your choice to BOOO

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Share on other sites

I thought this was about Europe so what has the bank got to do with it. Completely off topic.

 

It seems the issue of value for money on government expenditure was raised

- so the framework and relative amounts within which the spend is made should surely be considered

 

If you are going to train a virus to escape vaccine-induced immunity

you would do exactly what (England) are doing

Jemma Geoghegan - evolutionary virologist, University of Otago

+ the vast majority of the worlds scientific community

 

"unrepentant and inveterate liar" “Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

Boris Johnson Mendax est

Remember when Johnson or Patel are on stage - Its your choice to BOOO

Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought this was about Europe so what has the bank got to do with it. Completely off topic.

 

I think TJ was highlighting the fact that the UK paid £17b to the EU when the financial crisis hit Europe, the UK Government propped up the banks to the tune of £500b so I disagree that it is off topic.

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I think TJ was highlighting the fact that the UK paid £17b to the EU when the financial crisis hit Europe, the UK Government propped up the banks to the tune of £500b so I disagree that it is off topic.

 

Quite right

and the £18B figure on cost of EU per annum is overstated - its the headline amount

 

https://fullfact.org/economy/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

 

eg 2015 was a still significant, but actually far lower aprox £8.5B

 

What I find far more significant is

who pays that - the tax payer,

who benefits - international trading businesses

 

The 'taxpayer' may get indirect benefits BUT surely those who gain the direct benefits should pay the costs, and pass on those costs ....

We would see far better the actual costs and benefits then.

 

... and we all know how much UK tax international companies DONT pay.

 

If you are going to train a virus to escape vaccine-induced immunity

you would do exactly what (England) are doing

Jemma Geoghegan - evolutionary virologist, University of Otago

+ the vast majority of the worlds scientific community

 

"unrepentant and inveterate liar" “Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

Boris Johnson Mendax est

Remember when Johnson or Patel are on stage - Its your choice to BOOO

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I think TJ was highlighting the fact that the UK paid £17b to the EU when the financial crisis hit Europe, the UK Government propped up the banks to the tune of £500b so I disagree that it is off topic.

 

Ok, but the Europe payments will go on for ever and increase massively each year whereas the bank loan will come back to the treasury.

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Ok, but the Europe payments will go on for ever and increase massively each year whereas the bank loan will come back to the treasury.

 

Not if we leave the EU which brings us right back on topic. :-)

 

While there may be a risk of import/export tariffs, the UK can renegotiate trade deals with whoever they like. Being out of the union won't change that apart from the masses of extra paperwork.

 

In fact, individual trade deals may be more beneficial to the UK than the current status quo. I have listened to many speakers on radio 4 (for both sides which is why I am still a fence sitter) and one thing does come across. The EU don't want the UK to leave. Why? there are many other countries in the bloc than just us.

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I think people miss the point about world finances, whether they are pro or anti Brexit. London is the second most important financial centre in the world after New York. In many regards London is the most important financial centre, as it trades in more Euros than any other financial centre, is involved in many key trading aspects eg. setting rates (LIBOR), commodities, Insurance on shipping etc etc etc.

 

The UK is still as vulnerable to financial heart attacks as it was in 2007/08. The UK cannot isolate itself from the world and all of the problems go away. UK parliament will still be implementing much of what comes from Brussels and elsewhere in the world. The UK will still be paying into the EU, as part of a tariff free internal market place. If there is another financial crash, the UK will have to work with the EU and all other international partners. This includes providing bailout money and money to help deal with any recovery.

 

Brexit is an illusion that some people will only see when they realise that it changes very little. If they were arguing total independence from the EU and being more like the USA, not either Norway or Switzerland, then it might be different. Most people arguing for Brexit, still want to be part of the EU tariff free trading area, pay into the EU a negotiated sum and still comply with many EU laws/rules as paet of an agreement. Boris Johnson is not arguing total independence, but a slightly offshore cousin of the EU.

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Ok, but the Europe payments will go on for ever and increase massively each year whereas the bank loan will come back to the treasury.

 

Now this is drifting off topic, but that statement needs refuting.

 

Even the best estimates which show a final profit from the stated money pumped into the banks only shows that profit if ant interest fees paid by the 'central bank' and any benefits/profits which would have been received from 'un-loaned' money are ignored.

 

When all injected cash and interest.loss of interest is calculated - not a cat in hells chance of getting the money back.

 

And that also ignores the next crisis we are on the event horizon of

Not too complex a report here:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/03/17/central-banks-are-already-doing-the-unthinkable---you-just-dont/

 

If you are going to train a virus to escape vaccine-induced immunity

you would do exactly what (England) are doing

Jemma Geoghegan - evolutionary virologist, University of Otago

+ the vast majority of the worlds scientific community

 

"unrepentant and inveterate liar" “Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

Boris Johnson Mendax est

Remember when Johnson or Patel are on stage - Its your choice to BOOO

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Share on other sites

Now this is drifting off topic, but that statement needs refuting.

 

Even the best estimates which show a final profit from the stated money pumped into the banks only shows that profit if ant interest fees paid by the 'central bank' and any benefits/profits which would have been received from 'un-loaned' money are ignored.

 

When all injected cash and interest.loss of interest is calculated - not a cat in hells chance of getting the money back.

 

And that also ignores the next crisis we are on the event horizon of

Not too complex a report here:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/03/17/central-banks-are-already-doing-the-unthinkable---you-just-dont/

 

The world economy has been going wrong since Reaganomics was introduced. The various instituitions don't know how to get out of the mess it has created.

 

Brexit does seem to ignore the financial risks. Even some who might favour Brexit, are saying they would vote to remain, because the state of the world economy might seriously be affected by a Brexit outcome. If it does trigger a train of events that leads to another major financial crash, then people will come to regret it. Is some illusion of independence worth voting for, when you are risking the finances of your family and their futures ?

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Even some who might favour Brexit, are saying they would vote to remain, because the state of the world economy might seriously be affected by a Brexit outcome. If it does trigger a train of events that leads to another major financial crash, then people will come to regret it.

 

In the short term yes but otherwise only if the taxpayer AGAIN bailed out banks, bankers, their bonuses and the shareholders profits.

 

If we let them sink, take the real money out owed to real people, and leave the bankers and investors to take the hit they should, and should have taken, theres a good chance decent building societies would return to replace these corrupt moneteering unmentionables who are the blight of our modern society.

 

Balloons are best burst before they are too full of hot air - there is less of a bang when they do.

 

But recent 'mergers notwithstanding, the UK (taxpayer) will take a MAJOR hit again in the next financial crisis in or out the EU

Maggies legacy just keeps taking and taking

 

If you are going to train a virus to escape vaccine-induced immunity

you would do exactly what (England) are doing

Jemma Geoghegan - evolutionary virologist, University of Otago

+ the vast majority of the worlds scientific community

 

"unrepentant and inveterate liar" “Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

Boris Johnson Mendax est

Remember when Johnson or Patel are on stage - Its your choice to BOOO

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Share on other sites

In the short term yes but otherwise only if the taxpayer AGAIN bailed out banks, bankers, their bonuses and the shareholders profits.

 

If we let them sink, take the real money out owed to real people, and leave the bankers and investors to take the hit they should, and should have taken, theres a good chance decent building societies would return to replace these corrupt moneteering unmentionables who are the blight of our modern society.

 

Balloons are best burst before they are too full of hot air - there is less of a bang when they do.

 

But recent 'mergers notwithstanding, the UK will take a MAJOR hit again in the next financial crisis in or out the EU

Maggies legacy just keeps taking and taking

 

If you remember Vince Cable wanted to see many new smaller Banks and old fashioned Building Societies created. He wanted to see the big Banks split up, with casino Banking totally separate from the retail side. He also wanted to see an state investment Bank created, possibly using part of RBS.

 

Osborne and Cameron stopped this, as Banking reforms were kicked into the long grass. They still believe in the economics of Reagan/Thatcher.

 

If the Banks fail again, it will be worse than the last time and there won't be the money to bail out the Banks or fully safeguard deposits.

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I thought this was about Europe so what has the bank got to do with it. Completely off topic.

 

You are absolutely correct Filcin, Tobyjugg has done this on a regular basis, when he has no answer to a post.

 

You call it going off topic I call it putting up a smoke screen, or smoke and mirrors as the media calls it.

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The membership fee is huge. David Cameron boasted

about slightly decreasing the EU budget in 2014, yet

this was immediately followed by an increase in the

UK contribution

 

And then the EU demanded an additional £1.7billion

from the UK just to rub the salt in. In fact, the UK’s net

contribution to EU institutions has more than quadrupled

since 2008, according to the ONS.

 

We simply can’t afford the EU anymore because the EU

has maxed out our credit card. The British people have

been used by the EU as an ATM machine.

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Y

You call it going off topic I call it putting up a smoke screen, or smoke and mirrors as the media calls it.

 

I call it giving a balanced view and more of the actual facts, but you are entitled to your opinion, just as my sig says.

 

You might like the following which gives an almost entirely negative perspective

http://truepublica.org.uk/category/eu/

 

but you should also read the following and if you accept all at one of the pages, you should accept all at the other.

http://truepublica.org.uk/category/united-kingdom/

 

If you are going to train a virus to escape vaccine-induced immunity

you would do exactly what (England) are doing

Jemma Geoghegan - evolutionary virologist, University of Otago

+ the vast majority of the worlds scientific community

 

"unrepentant and inveterate liar" “Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

Boris Johnson Mendax est

Remember when Johnson or Patel are on stage - Its your choice to BOOO

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A now I understand! it's balanced smoke and mirrors, that,s OK then.

why did I not think of that.

 

Every thing you post is to introduce a balance to the subject

were as any post you do not agree with is propaganda, understood now wish some body had told me this before.

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I call it giving a balanced view and more of the actual facts, but you are entitled to your opinion, just as my sig says.

 

You might like the following which gives an almost entirely negative perspective

http://truepublica.org.uk/category/eu/

 

but you should also read the following and if you accept all at one of the pages, you should accept all at the other.

http://truepublica.org.uk/category/united-kingdom/

 

I wouldn't believe a single thing from those links, it is just scraper software and dumped onto that site. There are lot of sites that use scrapping to find anything and then publish it without even checking it out.

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