The European Union.....In or Out?

[obiter dictum]

"Where does it all end "?..

 

When Article 50 is formally instigated by the Executive. We still have to have a UK Parliamentary vote yet to either reject or accept the results of that Referendum

[Consumer dude]

Let us wait until Article 50 is or if implemented. Until then we need to continue this debate as the closing chapter has yet to be written. Until then we are still EU members

 

I hear what your saying. The title of the thread was however to vote in or out and that has been decided. There is of of course a thread about article 50. To be honest if the will is to keep this thread open then I don't mind but the question has been answered..

[Consumer dude]

Its not over yet, no matter how much you would like it to be.

we'll just open another one (referendum or thread as needed and appropriate) CD .

 

That is democracy.

 

 

Think about it. The question of this thread has been answered. Do you agreed ?..

[tobyjugg2]

Think about it. The question of this thread has been answered. Do you agreed ?..

 

No, especially as the name changed twice.

 

THe UK voted to join the EU in 1975 by a margin of 67% to 32%

 

by your logic that makes this entire latest referendum null and void

- the people spoke - and very very clearly - in 1975.

[Consumer dude]

What name changed twice ?..

[Consumer dude]

I just asked the question, and the people said out. Isn't that simple ?..

[tobyjugg2]

What name changed twice ?..

This thread - didnt you notice?

[Consumer dude]

Has the question been answered on this thread, the question was a straight forward one and the people answered the question via the ballot box did they not ?.If this is not true, I am happy to be corrected with any supported evidence..

[tobyjugg2]

Has the question been answered on this thread, the question was a straight forward one and the people answered the question via the ballot box did they not ?.If this is not true, I am happy to be corrected with any supported evidence..

 

as a number of people have already corrected you, with supporting evidence ...

that question has been answered

 

We dont know whether we will be in or out yet, or even which parts of the UK will be in or out if anything changes - apart from us having no seat at the table currently..

 

The question in the thread ISNT "what will the result of the referendum be" and even if it was, we dont know that yet either - as repeatedly explained.

 

In fact, I cant really think of a single question that HAS been answered other than 'what will the percentages or numbers be in the June 2016 EU referendum vote"

 

 

... and even if it was, that doesn't end debate as already explained.

[Consumer dude]

I will ask the question again. Has the question of this thread been answered in its current form ?. This is a simple yes or no answer..

[tobyjugg2]

Now let me pose a question to you.

Do you believe that the answer to a question is valid, when the question is posed with false information?

 

For example

If I said there are 5 apples in a bunch, how many apples in 2 bunches

- and you said 10?

 

Should you fail the test and be called rubbish at maths if there were actually 10 apples in a bunch and the answer should have been 20 (and would have been if you had the correct information)?

[citizenB]

Has the question been answered on this thread, the question was a straight forward one and the people answered the question via the ballot box did they not ?.If this is not true, I am happy to be corrected with any supported evidence..

 

 

Indeed it has, CD - I guess a new thread - "After the people have voted?"

[tobyjugg2]

Question 2

Do you think first answers should be binding, no matter how the situation (or the information about the question changes?

[Consumer dude]

Indeed it has, CD - I guess a new thread - "After the people have voted?"

 

Thank God for you. I was being bamboozled with toys out of the pram stuff. Please I am happy for this thread to be closed immediately as the question of the thread has be answered..

[Consumer dude]

Some people just like to argue when they are wrong and can't just accept defeat..

[citizenB]

Question 2

Do you think first answers should be binding, no matter how the situation (or the information about the question changes?

 

 

Hmm, the questions - do you want to stay in or do you want to come out was not at all ambiguous. I am pretty certain however, if the main concern on immigration had been explained to people properly then a lot might not have decided to exit. I dont think it was just about immigration - our whole infrastructure has pretty much collapsed because current funding couldn't keep up with the extra bodies. That was always going to mean that those extra bodies would be getting the blame.

 

 

Sadly in any economy that is doing badly, "outsiders" will be blamed.

[Consumer dude]

Hmm, the questions - do you want to stay in or do you want to come out was not at all ambiguous. I am pretty certain however, if the main concern on immigration had been explained to people properly then a lot might not have decided to exit. I dont think it was just about immigration - our whole infrastructure has pretty much collapsed because current funding couldn't keep up with the extra bodies. That was always going to mean that those extra bodies would be getting the blame.

 

 

Sadly in any economy that is doing badly, "outsiders" will be blamed.

 

With that, I repeat that I am happy for this thread to be closed as the question of the thread has indeed been answered by the vote of the people..

[tobyjugg2]

Hmm, the questions - do you want to stay in or do you want to come out was not at all ambiguous. I am pretty certain however, if the main concern on immigration had been explained to people properly then a lot might not have decided to exit. I dont think it was just about immigration - our whole infrastructure has pretty much collapsed because current funding couldn't keep up with the extra bodies. That was always going to mean that those extra bodies would be getting the blame.

 

 

Sadly in any economy that is doing badly, "outsiders" will be blamed.

 

Agree with all of that, and do not and would not imply the question on the ballot paper was at all ambiguous, just that, as you indicate, that the information 'declared to supposedly support making that decision - were lies intended to deceive the voters into making a decision they would not make if the truth had been declared

(or probably even if a decent counter argument - which was completely lacking)

 

Dont forget additionally there was the poll where 49% (from memory - link is here) of people believed the message that the NHS would get an extra 350 million a week.

[tobyjugg2]

Lets just remind ourselves of what I understand the headline issue are

(please feel free to add any you consider were truly important to MANY that I have missed)

 

in no particular order

 

 

• Immigration (close the borders and introduce a points/value system)
  
• NHS (more money for it and less immigrants using it)
  
• EU fees (we can get it for nothing)
  
• Economy (we will be richer outside the EU trading with who we like)
  
• Sovereignty (over who we allow in and kick out)
  
• Sovereignty over our own laws
  

 

 

Baring in mind that the Brexiters (Boris etc - the politicians) have absolutely NO plan whatsoever about how they will go forward - NONE ZIP NADA, let alone how these marvels will be accomplished.

In fact we already know from experience and the Brexters mouths (rather than needing knowledge most didnt have and didnt really want - thats what we pay politician and government experts for), that these are NOT going to happen.

 

 

The Brexiters should not only know the likely implications (I and others here demonstrably did), but have valid and achievable plans in place to deliver on their claims, BEFORE the claims are made

 

Where are these plans to deliver on these claims even now?

Where were these plans when the promoting of these claims were being delivered?

I'll tell you where

Written on one sheet each of Boris' and Farage's toilet paper, and they have already flushed them away.

[Consumer dude]

I would recommend you start another thread as the answer of the question on this thread has been answered as you have been advised and to which it is clear to see..

[tobyjugg2]

I would recommend you start another thread as the answer of the question on this thread has been answered as you have been advised and to which it is clear to see..

 

I disagree, if you have had what you want from the thread, then feel free to walk away

 

Still lots of questions to answer from what I see,

Including who will be in and who will be out - if anyone.

[silverfox1961]

I disagree, if you have had what you want from the thread, then feel free to walk away

 

Still lots of questions to answer from what I see,

Including who will be in and who will be out - if anyone.

 

This thread will be closed shortly as it is serving no useful purpose. You are free to start another thread.

 

I have been monitoring this thread for a while and it comes across that because some people didn't like the outcome of the referendum, they want another one and carry on until they get the answer they want.

 

Let us be absolutely clear on this. (capitalised for effect) BOTH SIDES LIED. Not just the leave camp as is being implied here. People with any ounce of common sense would have checked that what they were being told was the truth. The remain camp with their 'Project Fear' and the leave camp stating that we pay £350m per week to the EU.

 

Amongst other sites I visited to get the truth was the good old BBC as they had a fact checker. In my very humble opinion, fact checking should have been high on everyone's list. Again, in my opinion, the leave camp told less lies than the remain camp which helped with my choice.

 

What will getting you knickers in a twist do? Nothing! The referendum is over. The UK public have spoken! While the vote was narrow the out camp won. What will be achieved by arguing the toss do now. Again, nothing.

 

I suggest you wind your necks in, control your ego and move on.

 

You have 45 minutes to have a go if you wish. I have a thick skin. 20:00 hrs and this thread is closed.

[tobyjugg2]

I have been monitoring this thread for a while and it comes across that because some people didn't like the outcome of the referendum, they want another one and carry on until they get the answer they want.

You have 45 minutes to have a go if you wish. I have a thick skin. 20:00 hrs and this thread is closed.

.

 

yes you made it clear that was your opinion.

 

So nothing new happening here then.

[silverfox1961]

Closed.

[AndyOrch]

You're welcome to continue the next phase on the following thread...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?466329-Article-50-of-the-Lisbon-treaty..