The European Union.....In or Out?

[Conniff]

Already answered that if that was what you were actually looking for.

 

Back to your old trolling tricks Conniff, not that you ever really stopped.

 

What you are saying is if we leave the eu, the water companies will close their plants and dump the sewage into the sea and rivers again, we will build hundreds of coal fired power stations

And we would cut wages to £1 per hour with a 60 hour week so we could compete with others.

 

That 'is' what your claim is saying. Now you might be right, but I want the proof and not just made up rubbish.

[tobyjugg2]

What you are saying is if we leave the eu, the water companies will close their plants and dump the sewage into the sea and rivers again, we will build hundreds of coal fired power stations

And we would cut wages to £1 per hour with a 60 hour week so we could compete with others.

 

That 'is' what your claim is saying. Now you might be right, but I want the proof and not just made up rubbish.

 

Not precisely.

The point was that for our companies to compete with companies that CAN dump pollutants into rivers and the atmosphere, and that dont have restrictions on the poisens they can use to make things, we have two choices

 

Reduce costs to compete or dont compete

 

We may just about have the technology to compete if we implemented it ALL - but where does the money come from to do that?

- and even that would be automated plants with less employment

 

The alternative is not to try to compete and let the businesses and jobs die, or complete on a lowest cost platform - as they do.

 

The EU may cost us some money in their requirements for all who do business with them to either

Meet the environmental and worjforce rights of the EU or pay to trade - hence supporting the requirements and costs placed on teh EU companies.

 

Protectionism - perhaps - but of the best possible kind which keeps our air breathable, and water drinkable - and everyone except the few at the top reaping the increased profits are far batter off as part of that protected environment in the EU than outside it.

 

 

the proof is as described and an example linked above.

[san_d]

What about the unelected monarch and the House of Lords? Do you patriot freedom fighters want to get rid of them too? In which case I can join forces.

[Conniff]

Not precisely.

The point was that for our companies to compete with companies that CAN dump pollutants into rivers and the atmosphere, and that dont have restrictions on the poisens they can use to make things, we have two choices

 

Reduce costs to compete or dont compete

 

We may just about have the technology to compete if we implemented it ALL - but where does the money come from to do that?

- and even that would be automated plants with less employment

 

The alternative is not to try to compete and let the businesses and jobs die, or complete on a lowest cost platform - as they do.

 

The EU may cost us some money in their requirements for all who do business with them to either

Meet the environmental and worjforce rights of the EU or pay to trade - hence supporting the requirements and costs placed on teh EU companies.

 

Protectionism - perhaps - but of the best possible kind which keeps our air breathable, and water drinkable - and everyone except the few at the top reaping the increased profits are far batter off as part of that protected environment in the EU than outside it.

 

 

the proof is as described and an example linked above.

 

So are we not competing with them now ??

[Conniff]

What about the unelected monarch and the House of Lords? Do you patriot freedom fighters want to get rid of them too? In which case I can join forces.

 

Certainly not, why would you dump pensioners out on the street ?

[Tawnyowl]

Sure a number of the people who go on the daily politics read these threads. Heard a few things on there that are almost verbatim what has been posted here long before the program LOL

 

Just popping in for a moment.I am finding this thread very interesting.

As for the thought tobyjugg2 that some things are similar to what has been said in the Forums.

I have seen certain things said on the News word for word over the years that has been said here.Many days or weeks later.

Where do you think the politicians get their ideas from.

They lead such busy lives.They are spying or getting their ideas from here.

Now be careful what you write,they are watching.

[Tawnyowl]

Just ran out of time for editing.Never mind.

As well as having away some of the thoughtful,carefully written posts on the forums.

I bet a Politician,a TV station or one of their researchers has never hit the Donate button.

The sheer cheek of it is beyond understanding.

I mean they are not exactly short of a few bob are they?

[buckthorn]

You have got to be kidding regarding Goldman Sachs

 

I'll listen to, and consider what the Bank of England has to say, '

 

So you are prepared to listen to Mark Carney as Governor of the Bank of England

but not Goldman Sachs, well-read below he was part of Goldman Sachs for 13 years,

if you would not have been prepared to listen to him then why would you wish to

listen to him now.??????

 

After a thirteen-year career with Goldman Sachs in its London, Tokyo, New York and Toronto

offices, Mark Carney was appointed Deputy Governor of the Bank of Canada in August 2003.

In November 2004, he left the Bank of Canada to become Senior Associate Deputy Minister of

Finance. He held this position until his appointment as Governor of the Bank of Canada on

1 February 2008. Mark Carney served as Governor of the Bank of Canada and Chairman of its

Board of Directors until 1 June 2013

[obiter dictum]

2003 is 13 years ago when Mark Carney left Goldman Sachs. I suspect Goldman Sachs is now a totally different organisation to back then.

 

I doubt anything Mark Carney has to say with his former employer Goldman Sachs is no longer relevant to todays financial industry.

[buckthorn]

Why am I not surprised by that answer, after all you never really answer questions do you.

Never hear the saying a leopard never changes its spots.?

[buckthorn]

We are gradually “surrendering our sovereignty to the EU”.

Cabinet papers pre-1970 show the Heath government to have had a

full knowledge of the EEC being a long-term plan for a unitary

European State with its own currency; but the facts were suppressed

by this and succeeding governments with the deliberate intention of

keeping the nation in the dark.

 

Content appears to be taken from this website

Post shortened to 20% and link added as per site rules

 

http://www.bpp.org.uk/101reasons.html

 

-SS

Edited May 22, 2016 by SabreSheep
Plagerized, link added post shortened

[tobyjugg2]

How is it that we are surrendering our rules to an omnipotent and uncaring EU 'body' given that :

 

The EU has a big issue with China dumping cheap steel and actually proposed increasing the levy on certain dumped steel.

 

Did Cameron sit there wailing that he had tried to protect our national steel industry, but that the EU had blocked him and not listened?

Well he might have implied that - but it was deceptive at best.

 

What he actually did was work hard to get a coalition of EU members together to BLOCK the EU protecting the EU steel industries (including the UKs) from dumping

So he

1. Overturned the 'unlistening EU's' wishes

2. undoubtedly contributing to the pull out from the UK steel industry resulting in it collapse

3. directly and indirectly resulting in further expense dumped on the UK taxpayer as well as the destruction of an industry and the lives in it

 

Apart from the fact that the EU listened to Camerons lobbying - so they do listen and are moved, WHY (TF) did that ****** Cameron do that?

[buckthorn]

How is it that we are surrendering our rules to an omnipotent and uncaring EU 'body' given that :

 

The EU has a big issue with China dumping cheap steel and actually proposed increasing the levy on certain dumped steel.

 

Did Cameron sit there wailing that he had tried to protect our national steel industry, but that the EU had blocked him and not listened?

Well he might have implied that - but it was deceptive at best.

 

What he actually did was work hard to get a coalition of EU members together to BLOCK the EU protecting the EU steel industries (including the UKs) from dumping

So he

1. Overturned the 'unlistening EU's' wishes

2. undoubtedly contributing to the pull out from the UK steel industry resulting in it collapse

3. directly and indirectly resulting in further expense dumped on the UK taxpayer as well as the destruction of an industry and the lives in it

 

Apart from the fact that the EU listened to Camerons lobbying - so they do listen and are moved, WHY (TF) did that ****** Cameron do that?

 

You said:-

How is it that we are surrendering our rules to an omnipotent and uncaring EU 'body':

 

Well I have to say TJ I have accused you of not answering texts before but in this case

I have to congratulate you for answering this one, however you have answered you own

question.

 

I have tried in some of my threads to give the background to the referendum in 1975,

which was a stich-up, and the country was told a pack of lies/with deals being done in

secret that the population were never told about, as to the real objective of the EEC.

 

A couple of weeks ago there was a debate about the EU, and on the panel was Mandelson

who tried to take over the show, until one of the Brexit members said of course he would

vote to stay in after all he receives a pension from the EU, he flipped his lid and went red

in the face, says it all really.

 

You obviously must realize by now that I want out, I have made that plain enough, as far as

I am concerned if we make a cock up of our country then be it on our heads, but it is a

decision that we make, not some unelected idiot in Brussels.

One of my previous posts :-

All these scaremongers, are interested in is looking after

themselves and sod the rest of us.

Who wants us to stay in:- those who have something to gain

from our membership as they have been Commissioners in the

EU, and will get big pensions which they will lose if we leave.

 

Mandelson a £34,000 annual pension.

Ashton, if she had been employed by a business she would have been sacked , as she was rubbish.

Kinnock, well what can I say about him not much!!!

Patten, WHO!

Lord Hill, just been appointed by Cameron.

And then you have Blair, he wanted to be EU president, do you think that that is what Cameron wants to be???

[tobyjugg2]

I have tried in some of my threads to give the background to the referendum in 1975,

which was a stich-up, and the country was told a pack of lies/with deals being done in

secret that the population were never told about, as to the real objective of the EEC.

 

A couple of weeks ago there was a debate about the EU, and on the panel was Mandelson

who tried to take over the show, until one of the Brexit members said of course he would

vote to stay in after all he receives a pension from the EU, he flipped his lid and went red

in the face, says it all really.

 

You obviously must realize by now that I want out, I have made that plain enough, as far as

I am concerned if we make a cock up of our country then be it on our heads, but it is a

decision that we make, not some unelected idiot in Brussels.

One of my previous posts :-

All these scaremongers, are interested in is looking after

themselves and sod the rest of us.

Who wants us to stay in:- those who have something to gain

from our membership as they have been Commissioners in the

EU, and will get big pensions which they will lose if we leave.

 

Mandelson a £34,000 annual pension.

Ashton, if she had been employed by a business she would have been sacked , as she was rubbish.

Kinnock, well what can I say about him not much!!!

Patten, WHO!

Lord Hill, just been appointed by Cameron.

And then you have Blair, he wanted to be EU president, do you think that that is what Cameron wants to be???

 

You said (PAARAPHRASED)

 

1. We were stitched up and lied too by our elected officials in 1975

 

2. Our elected officials promote and propose incompetent self serving wastes of space to the EU body

 

3. Our elected officials are lying to us again now about the value of being a member of the EU

 

 

 

4. We must leave the EU to restore power to the elected officials mentioned in 1, 2 & 3

 

does that about sum it up?

[buckthorn]

You said (PAARAPHRASED)

 

1. We were stitched up and lied too by our elected officials in 1975

 

2. Our elected officials promote and propose incompetent self serving wastes of space to the EU body

 

3. Our elected officials are lying to us again now about the value of being a member of the EU

 

 

 

4. We must leave the EU to restore power to the elected officials mentioned in 1, 2 & 3

 

does that about sum it up?

 

Correct, that is exactly what I am saying.

[tobyjugg2]

Correct, that is exactly what I am saying.

 

 

Oh - I forgot one didn't I

 

The EU is undemocratic, doesn't listen, and imposes rules whether we like it or not - unless member state elected scrum-brag Cameron gets together with some other EU member state countries elected scrum-brags who want cheap dumped Chinese steel for their unelected rich mates

- and STOP the EU protecting EU countries industries and jobs,

 

... In which case the EU (albeit reluctantly) listens to the lobbying member state elected scrum-brags and at the behest of these EU member states elected lobbying scrum-brags, protecting their unelected rich industrial mates who want cheap steel while it lasts at the expense of lives and taxpayers money, the EU reluctantly agrees not to protect the EU industries and jobs as Cameron and those other member state elected scrum-brags demand ..

 

That should about cover it for now

[Conniff]

The EU is undemocratic, doesn't listen, and imposes rules whether we like it or not

 

Correct, now you're beginning to see the light.

[obiter dictum]

Then are our own democratically elected MEPs undemocratic who pass those rules into law??

Edited May 22, 2016 by obiter dictum

[tobyjugg2]

Oh - I forgot one didn't I

 

The EU is undemocratic, doesn't listen, and imposes rules whether we like it or not - unless member state elected scrum-brag Cameron gets together with some other EU member state countries elected scrum-brags who want cheap dumped Chinese steel for their unelected rich mates

- and STOP the EU protecting EU countries industries and jobs,

 

... In which case the EU (albeit reluctantly) listens to the lobbying member state elected scrum-brags and at the behest of these EU member states elected lobbying scrum-brags, protecting their unelected rich industrial mates who want cheap steel while it lasts at the expense of lives and taxpayers money, the EU reluctantly agrees not to protect the EU industries and jobs as Cameron and those other member state elected scrum-brags demand ..

 

That should about cover it for now

 

Correct, now you're beginning to see the light.

 

Glad you are too

[Conniff]

Then are our own democratically elected MEPs undemocratic who pass those rules into law??

 

No, only the Labour ones

[Conniff]

Glad you are too

 

I've always known the EU is undemocratic, doesn't listen, and imposes rules whether we like it or not

[tobyjugg2]

No, only the Labour ones

 

 

We must have made some good points here orbiter

the Edit is starting in earnest trying to smother them.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Conniff

[Conniff]

We must have made some good points here orbiter

the Edit is starting in earnest trying to smother them.

 

In this whole thread, you have never given even one single scrap of evidence for your claims. Hows about now starting to back up all these wild claims ??

[obiter dictum]

I am confused by this whole undemocratic business. The EU Commission proposes legislation to the EU Parliament after being debated in committees and sub committes. It is then the Elected MEPs who pass that proposed legislation into law. The same as our own UK Parliament and the White paper

 

I have never seen any objective argument contray to that procedure

[tobyjugg2]

I am confused by this whole undemocratic business. The EU Commission proposes legislation to the EU Parliament after being debated in committees and sub committes. It is then the Elected MEPs who pass that proposed legislation into law. The same as our own UK Parliament and the White paper

 

I have never seen any objective argument contrary to that procedure

 

Absolutely