The European Union.....In or Out?

[buckthorn]

I'm not sure what your point is, buckthorn?

 

HB

 

 

What I am pointing out is that Brussels is in the process of forming a European Police Force,

(as well as an army) which if we remain in the EU, would eventually suck in our own police,

and put them under the control of Brussels. France, Spain, Holland and Portugal have so far

decide to participate in this force. (their maybe more, that I don’t know about). do we really

wish our police to be dictated to by Brussels?

 

http://www.eurogendfor.eu.

The fact of having different nationalities drilling side by side is clearly part of a plan to harmonise

the different national forces so as to create a unified European police force. I suspect that the

ultimate model for this ‘harmonised ‘ and amalgamated multinational force could be based of the

French Foreign Legion, a long-standing model of a military force of this kind.

 

I say again these are not soldiers, they are European riot-control policemen. They are actually

(check the pictures) members of the Spanish Guardia Civil, as you can see from the flashes on

their left shoulders, and it is written on their flak jackets.

 

If you look at their right upper arms you will just glimpse the royal-blue armband of the European

Gendarmerie Force, which has its emblem a circle of little yellow stars, and in the middle – and I

quote from their own website – a ‘sword and a flaming grenade, symbolising the common military

root of European police’ (this logo and the armband are fully explained on their website). In a later

version the circle of stars was removed presumably so as to make it less obvious that what we are

looking at is the Brussels Heavy Squad.

 

Continental police are under military command and their primary task is to uphold the authority of

the state. When they are used to investigate crimes they are often under the direct command of a

member of the career judiciary, who has the responsibility but no training in detective work.

 

We can see from the conduct of the Portuguese police in the McCann case that their methods are

very, very different from ours.

 

Of course the big question is ‘Will they ever be able to deploy these people in Britain?’ And this is

where all British Europhiles, and even many Eurosceptics go straight into denial.

 

So far the EU could not deploy them here because justice and home affairs are still a member

state’s prerogative – what is called a ‘third pillar competence’. If the EU tries to legislate on the

matter, each member State can wield a veto. But this has changed since the Lisbon Treaty was

ratified.

 

(The Lisbon Treaty came into force on the first day of the month following the deposition of the

last instrument of ratification with the government of Italy, which was 1 December 2009. )

 

In fact, under the terms of the Lisbon Treaty justice and home affairs become EU competence,

like practically everything else The ‘pillar’ structure will go.

 

Let us not forget that justice and home affairs is the heart of state power, for it includes the

power to use physical force on the citizens, to put people in prison. When the EU takes this

power, it ceases to be an association of sovereign states, it finally becomes a state in its own

right, with powers to repress directly behaviour it deems undesirable by citizens of any member

state.

 

We know that the government says it has obtained ‘red lines’ to safeguard our national autonomy

in criminal justice. But several of our so called EU partners, and are own parliamentary committee,

have said they will not be worth much. They will be subject to the interpretation of the European

Court of Justice. And even in the best of circumstances an opt-out can very easily be turned into

an opt-in by a government decision, with no need to go through a parliamentary debate and vote.

Parliament hands its power to the government, which will hand it over to Brussels . Once that has

happened there can be no going back.

Article 6.3 of the Treaty of Velsen allows the EU gendarmerie to be deploy in another state with

the simple ‘consent’ of that State. Bob Spink, x-MP and Lord Pearson, asked ministers for an

assurance that this consent will never be given. No such assurance was forthcoming.

 

The presence of the Euro Gendarmerie on our shores will be what makes the whole EU process

physically irreversible. It will not be enough for our Parliament, at that point, to pass an Act repealing

the ECA72 and then to simply tell them to go.

 

They will not be subject to our Parliament or to our Queen. They will be subject only to Brussels, and

will obey only decisions taken there by majority voting, where we will have only 8% of the vote

(maybe less when Turkey and these other countries join).

 

It may require physical force to eject them.

 

[/bSo no Army and no Police under our control, if that’s what you want vote to stay!

I will be voting out.

[buckthorn]

neither do I.

We've all heard of Interpol, and know that many European police carry firearms, as the US police and others do.

 

and no-one is disputing the possibility of a future EU military response force - just the wild allegations/allusions that they might end up boot-stomping across the UK or that Merkel might replace the US's finger on the UK's nuclear deterrent or commanding the UK's military.

 

Anyway, France has twice the nukes we have and has always been fully committed to the EU.

 

Even the US has more nuclear missiles in Europe than the UK has (but not as many as France)

 

 

Hers an article from 6 years ago

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/deterrent-lite-a-look-at-britain-s-and-france-s-nuclear-arsenals-a-688504.html

 

Definitions

There Are None So Blind

As Those Who Will Not See

 

________________________________________

There Are None So Blind As Those Who Will Not See:

• According to the ‘Random House Dictionary of Popular Proverbs and Sayings’ this proverb has been traced back to 1546 (John Heywood), and resembles the Biblical verse Jeremiah 5:21 (‘Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not’). In 1738 it was used by Jonathan Swift in his ‘Polite Conversation’ and is first attested in the United States in the 1713 ‘Works of Thomas Chalkley’. The full saying is: ‘There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know’.

[tobyjugg2]

Definitions

There Are None So Blind

As Those Who Will Not See

 

Except perhaps, those who only see what isn't there.

Perhaps this one would suite you better:

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/just-because-i-m-paranoid-doesn-t-mean-they-re-not-out-to-get-me

 

 

I'll reiterate and expand to supply something not actively promoting a political end

 

Interpol, which everyone knows about

 

EGF

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Gendarmerie_Force

 

EDA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Defence_Agency

 

 

and see here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_European_Union

[tobyjugg2]

well Boris, what a !spleech!

Was it on the EU?

 

or was he just throwing in a few EU related phrases while bumbling along to Lewis Carols jabberwocky, which he remembers from school, rather than his unlearned script he was apparently struggling to read ?

[Conniff]

I think I heard that Luxembourg is putting itself on a war footing and readying itself to invade Belgium.

Germany has said it will back Luxembourg but France says it will take advantage of the deteriorating situation to declare war on the UK.

 

All British and American military bases in Germany have been warned that if the UK leaves the EU

they have just 24 hours to move their equipment out and leave the country.

 

 

I see adverts for the sale of Anderson Air Raid Shelters have started to appear on the internet.

[honeybee13]

I haven't heard that, Conniff. Do you have a link please?

 

HB

[Consumer dude]

CD reaches out for the Rioja..

[Conniff]

I haven't heard that, Conniff. Do you have a link please?

 

HB

 

All the Daily Nationals including - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/08/cameron-brexit-will-increase-risk-of-europe-descending-into-war/ - David Cameron: Brexit could lead to Europe descending into war

[Consumer dude]

I haven't heard that, Conniff. Do you have a link please?

 

HB

 

Wasn't Conniff joking ?..

[Consumer dude]

All the Daily Nationals including - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/08/cameron-brexit-will-increase-risk-of-europe-descending-into-war/ - David Cameron: Brexit could lead to Europe descending into war

 

Huh ? You mean you wasn't ?..

[Conniff]

Wasn't Conniff joking ?..

 

Of course, I would have said that was obvious.

[Consumer dude]

Oh blimey, CD reaches out for more Rioja..

[Consumer dude]

I'm confuddled. Lol..

[Consumer dude]

Has honeybee13 gone to build a war shelter ?..

[tobyjugg2]

Cameron is stating fact - The Tories are already at war over Brexit

 

(good post though Conniff)

[Consumer dude]

At the end of the day, people will decide how they want to vote..

[buckthorn]

WELL WELL WELL

EU ARMY MOVES STEP CLOSER: MEP

says Brussels defence force 'only way'

to protect Europe

FEARS that Britain will be forced to join an EU army if the country votes

to stay tied to Brussels will intensify today when a senior MEP declares

his support for the idea.

 

Joseph Daul, president of the largest political party in the European Parliament,

is expected to insist that Europe "cannot be safeguarded" without an EU defence

force including ground troops.

 

His controversial remarks will come in a speech in Brussels to mark the "Europe Day",

a celebration of European unity held each year by EU supporters.

 

It is expected to deepen concerns that British troops and other armed forces personnel

could be put under the command of Brussels.

 

Mr Daul, who is president of the centre-right European People's Party will say: “World

peace cannot be safeguarded without the making of creative efforts proportionate to

the dangers which threaten it.

 

Tory defence minister Penny Mordaunt seized on his remarks as fresh evidence that

Brussels bureaucrats will press ahead with the EU army plan after Britain's in-or-out EU

referendum on June 23.

 

She said: "This is proof of the European Union's plan to create a Euro Army - and it is

dishonest for the 'In' campaign to claim otherwise.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics//Anti-Brussels-fury-Germany-secretly-plans-for-EU-army-Brexit?

Edited May 19, 2016 by Conniff

[obiter dictum]

Daily Express?? Hardly a credible source of Reference. Any sort of this EU Army rhetoric will be contrary to our NATO membership

[Conniff]

The Guardian was reporting last year that Jean-Claude Juncker calls for EU army - http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/08/jean-claude-juncker-calls-for-eu-army-european-commission-miltary

 

So if a paper is quoting what is being said, then it matters not which one it is from.

[tobyjugg2]

WELL WELL WELL

EU ARMY MOVES STEP CLOSER: MEP

says Brussels defence force 'only way'

to protect Europe

FEARS that Britain will be forced to join an EU army if the country votes

to stay tied to Brussels will intensify today when a senior MEP declares

his support for the idea.

 

Joseph Daul, ......

 

 

See my prior posts.

This guy is French, and no way France will give up national control of their armed forces - let alone Britain.

 

A rapid response force to deal with Brussels type terrorist attacks and border issues - yes absolutely

Control of national miltaries - NOT A CHANCE.

 

NATO is the wests and the EU's military organisation despite Turkey destabilising that.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Conniff

[obiter dictum]

But Jean-Claude Juncker is not the EU, that is his own opinion. Any notion of forming an EU army under direct control and recruited by the EU would require the Agreement of all 28 Member states. The UK and France would use their veto. Currently the EU requires individual member states to supply boots on the ground.

Edited May 9, 2016 by obiter dictum

[buckthorn]

It may have been in the Express,

but the statement came from

Joseph Daul, president of the largest political party in the European Parliament,

Conniff is right does it matter who reports it?

[obiter dictum]

Only if it is referenced as their own personal opinions and not facts from their own political office

[buckthorn]

Joseph Daul, president of the largest political party actually said it, (his own personal opinion)

not the news paper they just reported what he said.

[obiter dictum]

But his own personal opinion does not imply official EU policy. That will be up to the EU Parliament to debate and legislate once proposed