The European Union.....In or Out?

[buckthorn]

We are big enough to make our own laws, in our own parliament; if you believe that we

should have the sovereign right to control our own borders; if you believe that we

should be fiscally responsible and stop adding to our national debt and expecting our

children and grandchildren to pay for them, then the in-out referendum cannot come

quick enough.

 

Cameron did not have a hope in hell of getting any meaningful reforms to the EU. It

simply was not going to happen.

 

The control of our own destiny is in our hands and its time to act in the best interest

our country.

 

Roll on June 23rd, lets get our independence back.

Edited April 15, 2016 by buckthorn
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[buckthorn]

What you need to know about the EU, and what

they do with your money.

The European Union forked out £1.5 million for a study

into African DIRT.

 

Your cash went on a five-year study-dubbed DirtPol and

led by the University of Sussex-into “the cultural politics

of dirt in Africa, 1880-to the present day”.

 

It came from the European Re-search Council, a body set

up by the EU in 2007 “to stimulate scientific excellence in

Europe” with a £5.3 billion budget to be spent by 2013.

 

Explaining the thinking behind it, project leader Professor

Steph Newell said: “We’ll be investigating people’s attitude,

perspectives and the language behind dirt. “What is ‘dirt’ and

what do we mean by that?” On the University of Sussex website,

the project which ended last June was described as offering

“an ambitious, qualitative and historical study that asks about

the implications of locally situated understandings of dirt in diverse

Africa contexts for current debate about urbanisation, the environment,

sexuality and ethnicity.”

 

“I’m sure British taxpayers will be less than delighted to learn that

£1.5 million has been spent on a study into dirt on a continent they

don’t live on.

 

“This so called project, if you can really call it that, is one of thousands

taking place in universities across the country and the rest of Europe into

things we’ll likely never need to know.

 

“Aren’t there more important things in the world our universities could be

researching, like trying to find a cure for cancer or a replacement for

antibiotics which are becoming less affective?

 

It is precisely this kind of bonkers scheme that is convincing more and more

people that Britain would be better off outside the EU.”

[honeybee13]

Do you have a link for your quote please, buckthorn?

 

HB

[citizenB]

Do you have a link for your quote please, buckthorn?

 

HB

 

 

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/463224/Fury-European-Union-bureaucrats-spend-1-5-million-Africa-dirt-study

[Filcin]

During comrade Corbyns very weak and puerile speech the other day he warned of "workers' rights 'bonfire' if UK leaves".

 

Why will anything change and where is his proof that anything will or is this the Labour Party manifesto for when they get back in power ?

 

I wish interviewers would challenge on these commonsense points. No Labour Government has ever left power with more people employed than when they took office.

[buckthorn]

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/463224/Fury-European-Union-bureaucrats-spend-1-5-million-Africa-dirt-study

 

I have never read that so called News paper in my life.

I gave the name of the University and the Professor responsible so if you wished to look it up you could,

it just seems to me that by always asking for this information on any of my post but not on other contributors

post is a bit one sided.

 

For your information:- http://www.sussex.ac.uk/dirtpol/

[buckthorn]

Were some of our other contribution to the EU go!

 

(To check; look up the name of the University, plus the name of the project)

 

The European Union awarded the university of Liverpool €221,606 IN 2013 for

“Trade Roads in Ancient Deserts: An Egyptian Case Study”, into “the unrecognized

Late Bronze Age commercial route between the Mediterranean and middle Egypt”.

 

In 2013, the University of Warwick was awarded €312,117 by the EU for a study entitled;

“Resilience in East African landscapes: Identifying critical thresholds and sustainable

trajectories – past, present and future. The study would “combine state-of-the-art

research methods to tap into under-appreciated knowledge of how indigenous people

have previously adapted to East Africa’s intrinsically unstable climate and land/water resources”.

 

University Collage, London, received €2,499,006 from the European Research Council for a

project called: “Calendars in Late Antiquity and the Middle Ages: Standardization and Fixation.”

The website said the project “studies the evolution of calendars in late antique and

medieval societies, with a special focus on Roman, Christian, Jewish, and Islamic calendars”.

 

The University of Exeter was given €1,519,640 for its study into “The Impact of Plant Evolution

on Fire Behaviour in Ancient Ecosystems”, to “assess palaeofire severity, the heat delivered by

a fire and the duration for which it remains at a site must be estimated.

 

Total cost just of these 4 project= €4,552,369, “of your money”. on rubbish.

[Guest]

Boris has a say re Obama's 'expected' support for 'in' when visiting the UK next week..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36057947

[Filcin]

Asked about the US president, the London mayor said everything about the history of the US suggested they would never share sovereignty.

"I don't know what he is going to say but, if that is the American argument then it is nakedly hypocritical. The Americans would never dream of it," he told the BBC.

 

'Absolutely bizarre'

 

"I think that President Obama has got a perfect right to make any intervention that he wants. Indeed I welcome the views of everybody in this debate.

 

"I just find it absolutely bizarre that we are being lectured by the Americans about giving up our sovereignty and giving up control when the Americans won't even

sign up to the international convention on the law of the seas, let alone the International Criminal Court."

 

From the same link as above.

[tobyjugg2]

During comrade Corbyns very weak and puerile speech the other day he warned of "workers' rights 'bonfire' if UK leaves".

 

Workers rights is pretty much the only issue Boris (London mayor and next Conservative party leader wannabe) has with the EU, as has been repeatedly exampled here.

 

So if he leads a successful out vote, and then leads the Tories as would be quite possible, that would very clearly be top of his agenda.

 

Already linked his statements on this here, no matter how much you keep trying to make out they dont exist.

 

They have already protected the 'City' and zero tax paying financial institutions (as already linked) so all they need to do now is ensure workers have no rights and high taxes to pay for the bankers.

 

Already shafted whether we stay in or not, but shafted even more if we leave.

[Filcin]

Sorry, I can't see anything about a 'bonfire on workers rights'. Boris has said it will probably cost jobs, but nowhere can I find where he, or anyone else, has said they will rescind workers rights ??

 

It's the same as the rubbish Osborne came out with yesterday about us all being £4,300 worse off, that's just a made up figure with no proof whatsoever.

 

All I want is for both sides to back up their statements with facts, so far none have.

[unclebulgaria67]

I see George Osborne and other ministers claiming that leaving the EU would cost the country a fortune. I think they may have a point, but many won't believe them. If you leave a union of countries thinking you will not have consequences that cannot be easily recovered from, then you are mistaken. The UK is the second biggest economy in the EU and if the EU is damaged as a result, it will damage economic stability of the whole continent.

[honeybee13]

The Treasury has just published a report that seems to say what you're saying, UB.

 

The out campaign aren't happy.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36070761

 

HB

[unclebulgaria67]

The Treasury has just published a report that seems to say what you're saying, UB.

 

The out campaign aren't happy.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36070761

 

HB

 

Not surprised that they are not happy.

 

The crux of the matter is whether you are a risk taker or not and can suffer whatever change that happens. The other EU countries do trade a lot with the UK, so they are not going to do anything to damage that trade. But the financial markets and investors might be put off backing investment in the UK, while any Brexit is under negotiation.

 

Local to me there are several large employers who trade across the EU. They have sites across many different EU countries and having the EU makes it easier for them e.g similar employment law, health & safety, consumer rights etc. If the UK was to leave the EU, i suspect some of these employers or their investors might take decisions to move production, if they think Brexit damages their trading position.

[citizenB]

I think that was a shameful bit of scaremongering. I rather suspect that people just wont believe them.

[san_d]

I think that was a shameful bit of scaremongering. I rather suspect that people just wont believe them.

 

Strangely enough this presumed scaremongering comes from multiple sources. So what becomes of Britain once it leaves the EU? Who's going to support Britain when negotiating with the evil EU? Not the USA, not the IMF, not the WTO.

 

Britain will be completely isolated and left to its own device.

 

This would make the angry little Englanders happy, but is it worth pursuing this lunacy?

[Filcin]

Strangely enough this presumed scaremongering comes from multiple sources. So what becomes of Britain once it leaves the EU? Who's going to support Britain when negotiating with the evil EU? Not the USA, not the IMF, not the WTO.

 

Britain will be completely isolated and left to its own device.

 

This would make the angry little Englanders happy, but is it worth pursuing this lunacy?

 

How do you know that no one will side with Britain ?

 

This is just adding to the scare stories, a made up statement with no proof.

[ericsbrother]

Imagine you are in a pub with a group of friends. You have been buying the drinks all night and your friends have happliy accepted this and even told you what flavour of crisps to get, despite the fact you wanted pork scratchings. they insist that no-one else like pork scratchings so you cant buy them. You decide it is time to go home but they demand you stay because they want another drink. you decide to leave anyway so they all say that they wont be your friend any more becuase you wont keep them in beer. The landlord warns you that his entire business is inder threat if you leave and he might just give the others a drink and charge you for it when you come in next time and if you dont agree he will add a few pence to your pint anyway.

[ericsbrother]

George Osborne wants you to believe that leaving will cost you £4300 a year. Well, using his claims as a tool to calculate my losses it amounts to £80 a year at most and with savings from reduced VAT ( that mostly goes to the EU and all VAT on goods imported from outside the EU does) I will probably be better off. However, George Osbornes tax bill will go up by £32-80k so using his sums no wonder he wants us to remain, he needs the subsidy from the rest of us poor people to keep him in the manner has have become accustomed to.

Also, the assumptions made about the deal we will get in treaties afterwards mean that the people they are going to get to do the job have been written off already as useless. Well, I can believe that. The real problems with governemnts is the governments themselves.

[Old Cogger]

always the Government are the problem and personal greed at others expence

[unclebulgaria67]

Would you vote Brexit if these things were likely to happen.

 

- instability in the finance markets for years, affecting pensions, savings and other investments, companies cutting back on investment leading to some lost jobs.

 

- immigration from EU countries is likely to increase between a Brexit vote and the date freedom of movement is withdrawn ( if it ever is withdrawn). Given that unemployment is still high in many countries and people have seen their friends/family come to the UK, i suspect you will have a rush of people coming to the UK. You will also see a massive increase in UK citizenship applications, as people look to cement their UK rights.

 

- instability in government/parliament. David Cameron is unlikely to continue, as the EUsceptics look to get their people into the leadership of the Tory party. It would be carnage, with a weak government and no majority in parliament backing any EU changes that some want to see. It would not matter if there was a fixed term parliament, as a vote of no confidence would be held and an early election would follow.

 

The EU is a flawed organisation that needs reform, but you don't risk a load of problems, by voting to leave. The German people now want EU reform and it is likely Merkel will lose at their next election.

[tobyjugg2]

George Osborne wants you to believe that leaving will cost you £4300 a year. Well, using his claims as a tool to calculate my losses it amounts to £80 a year at most and with savings from reduced VAT ( that mostly goes to the EU and all VAT on goods imported from outside the EU does) I will probably be better off. However, George Osbornes tax bill will go up by £32-80k so using his sums no wonder he wants us to remain, he needs the subsidy from the rest of us poor people to keep him in the manner has have become accustomed to.

Also, the assumptions made about the deal we will get in treaties afterwards mean that the people they are going to get to do the job have been written off already as useless. Well, I can believe that. The real problems with governemnts is the governments themselves.

 

 

Whether we stay or leave the EU, if you think that the rich will pay for anything in any significant (to them) increased taxation - history and the last budget shows us you are unquestionably mistaken.

[Filcin]

These so called rich are already paying 5% more income tax than any labour chancellor has ever set for them.

[tobyjugg2]

These so called rich are already paying 5% more income tax than any labour chancellor has ever set for them.

 

Isnt it rather strange then that aside from the recent tax haven panama papers revelations, the tories cut corporation and other 'rich' taxs as they 'dont pay it anyway?

 

So - dont chase them or correct the rules - just make their avoidance legal or unnecessary

 

Easy to read example.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/10954502/Cut-Capital-Gains-Tax-everyone-avoids-paying-it-anyway.html

[unclebulgaria67]

These so called rich are already paying 5% more income tax than any labour chancellor has ever set for them.

 

Alastair Darling introduced the 50% top tax rate of income £150k plus in Labours last budget before the 2010 election. George Osborne reduced it to 45%, which i think was a sensible move, as you should never look to penalise those fortunate enough to earn such high salaries. If you are a top heart surgeon looking to move abroad from say Canada, you might be put off coming to the UK, when there are many other countries interested in their employment, who may offer a lower tax rate.

 

UK tax system is far too complex and needs substantial reform. I would take it out of the hands of politicians, so they can't mess around with it for purely political purposes.