The European Union.....In or Out?

[buckthorn]

The cost of bailing out the Eurozone.

David Cameron in 2010 said that we would not have to

fork out another penny to bail out the countries ruined by

Euro membership, yet the European Commission last July

demanded that UK people hand over another £1 billion to

bail out Greece. This is on top of the £6.6 billion we’ve

already committed to bailing out Portugal and other Eurozone

countries.

 

The UK gets fined billion by the EU.

In July last year the European Commission fined the UK £642 million

(bet you can’t guess what for) yes you got it correct, for poor

accounting this was on a complex agricultural payment scheme,

designed by the EU. (this is really funny as the EU have never had

their own accounts signed off, and we get fined for poor accounting,

what a cheek, one rule for one and one for another)

This is just one EU fine of many.

Now for the burden of EU regulations.

These regulations destroy employment opportunities, force businesses

to move abroad, and reduce prosperity in the UK. EU external tariffs on

goods make our food, our shoes and clothes more expensive. And then

there’s the EU’s bureaucratic paperwork! And the wasteful projects the

EU spends our money on.

 

 

referendum_leaflet.pdf

Edited March 22, 2016 by citizenB

[tobyjugg2]

I wouldn't believe a single thing from those links,

 

That is part of the point Conniff, and why I referenced two pages from that site,

one of which the right wingers outers here would love,

and the other that they would not like - critisising the Tory government.

 

There is 'truth' in both pages, and lots of it, but presented in a biased and selective way which makes it almost worthless to a truly inquiring mind without looking elsewhere for further confirmation.

 

... just like some people here present their very coloured and one sided opinions.

 

Like I said - I try to balance the facts.

[Conniff]

But balanced facts aren't any good to you or others. You need to adhere to your conviction of which side you are on and attempt to convince others of the folly of their opposing views and they can do likewise to you.

 

Balanced fact leaves everyone stuck in the middle not knowing which way to turn or who to believe.

[tobyjugg2]

But balanced facts aren't any good to you or others. You need to adhere to your conviction of which side you are on and attempt to convince others of the folly of their opposing views and they can do likewise to you.

 

Balanced fact leaves everyone stuck in the middle not knowing which way to turn or who to believe.

 

LOL.

and I thought you and yours were complaining that my posts were one sided and unreasonable, rather than its that they aren't.

[unclebulgaria67]

Comes down to whether it is a heart or head decision.

 

I see myself as a world citizen, not British, European or other nationalist stamp they wish to place on me. I am proud of British inventors who have done so much for the world. Proud of the British NHS. Proud of British Armed Forces who have fought for a free Europe and a more secure world. But am I proud to be British over any other nationality, no i am not. I totally dislike setting people apart based on which nationality they have had placed on them or adopted.

 

I see the EU, as an instituition Britain has joined to be part of a wider community of people and to make decisions together as a large free market. I don't really care whether a British parliament has to implement law that has been decided in the European parliament. I cannot really think of European parliament derived laws that have really affected the lifes of British residents. Westminster often passes law that at least half of the country might not agree with and may not have been in an election manifesto. It is not possible to have a perfect democratic system that pleases everyone.

 

For me, remaining in the EU is a head decision, as i believe on balance Britain is best as part of the EU. I would prefer to be part of a large community of people, rather than an independent island nation. It is easier for British government to deal with the EU on major issues, than have to agree separate arrangements with 27 separate countries.

 

For others, it will be a heart decision. They are British nationalists and want independence.

[tobyjugg2]

I find it mind boogling that ONLY Farage appears to be campaigning honestly for their beliefs (and I'm not saying his campaign rhetoric is honest or the whole truth).

 

The out campaign and Boris .

Now Boris is Mayor of London - the one place where almost every major business would be better off in the EU provided they retain their protection from EU regulations as Cameron has almost certainly done in his renegotiation.

 

Cameron

Is a strange one. He should be an outer as a grass roots Tory, but was the instigator of the referendum and leading, albeit very feebly the in campaign.

Perhaps he thought that he could offer an EU referendum as political advantage as opposition as he didn't expect to win the election (and they didn't expect to win). Perhaps he quite rightly thought offering it was their only hope of winning the election.

and of course the renegotiation was a farce apart from protecting the city.

 

Corbyn

Has always been a confirmed eurosceptic and would undoubtedly vote to leave as he has before. He is sitting on the fence and avoiding the issue at the moment as he is want to do with everything that isn't on his very limited personal agenda.

 

SNP

Inners as every aspect of it is in their interests - including a successful out vote when they promote IN.

[Conniff]

Here's one side:

[citizenB]

I received one of those today, conniff

[unclebulgaria67]

I hope people use their brains when casting their votes, whatever way they decide to vote. I think some people will vote on negative media stories, which only put one inaccurate side.

[citizenB]

I hope people use their brains when casting their votes, whatever way they decide to vote. I think some people will vote on negative media stories, which only put one inaccurate side.

 

I still haven't heard of any positives, though Uncle B ?

[silverfox1961]

The problems that I see are that both sides have a political motive. This should not be about politics but what is right for this country. Not left wing, not right wing. Not even in the middle ground.

 

I want to see words that are not designed to mislead. Both camps will say anything to vote their way.

 

Is it that hard to be given the truth?

[Guest]

..

 

Is it that hard to be given the truth?

seems so. as usual, theres too much spin going on. cant even rely on the beeb for impartial info (again)

[unclebulgaria67]

If people think Brexit will deal with migration, i think they are mistaken. The UK has their own border control, yet thousands manage to get here. See this DM link.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3506111/Pictured-moment-26-migrants-including-five-children-jammed-lorry-near-Dartford-Crossing.html

[tobyjugg2]

If people think Brexit will deal with migration, i think they are mistaken. The UK has their own border control, yet thousands manage to get here. See this DM link.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3506111/Pictured-moment-26-migrants-including-five-children-jammed-lorry-near-Dartford-Crossing.html

 

I think most people see that migration is going to be one of the massive issues in the referendum to stay or leave.

 

 

and its what sort is getting in, despite sky and the BBC managing to find a few women and children to show.

 

Anyone who only watches the bbc and sky news will not be seeing the reports showing gangs of men blocking roads at Calais, and at other borders, throwing bricks at CARS let alone lorries that do not stop when they stand in front of them, the police moving them on just for them to return.

 

These are criminals who have destroyed their identity papers and ignored the laws of entry to countries, let alone the laws and society of the countries.

They are NOT refugees, MANY of these are criminals. The refugees are in refugee camps.

 

These people have broken law after law to get where they think they will get benefits, not to escape persecution - except perhaps the 'persecution resulting from their criminal activities in their original countries. They are happy to push the few women and children to the front of huge gangs of men,

In fact, these seem to be the sort of people who probably would have abused and persecuted people wherever they were.

 

Our big problem is that they know they can do what they like, but once inside a countries borders, however illegally, will be entitled to all sorts of things whatever they do.

 

Now, EU countries are starting to do something about it DESPITE Merkel, and NOW is the time for the UK to be part of that move to bring sanity back to the EU, else we will only be able to hide behind our borders for a very short time.

 

The BIG problem is that the ones we need as allies to do that (eastern European states) are also the ones we want to refuse passage.

[tobyjugg2]

For those who haven't seen it, the following gives some insight into out campaigner Mayor Boris, which I think many people will draw different conclusions from.

 

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/spiegel-interview-with-london-mayor-boris-johnson-a-1047789.html

[unclebulgaria67]

Apparently Cameron is thinking of postponing the referendum due to the current terrorist threat level after the Brussels attack. Also there are apparently 800,000+ migrants in Libya waiting to cross the Med, to add to the numbers in Turkey and other countries looking to migrate across Europe.

 

Would not surprise me if Cameron decided to postpone until Spring 2017.

[tobyjugg2]

Apparently Cameron is thinking of postponing the referendum due to the current terrorist threat level after the Brussels attack. Also there are apparently 800,000+ migrants in Libya waiting to cross the Med, to add to the numbers in Turkey and other countries looking to migrate across Europe.

 

Would not surprise me if Cameron decided to postpone until Spring 2017.

 

+1

 

The Russians and Yanks appear to be coming to some possible partial solution in Syria, which would alleviate some pressure and open some options regarding migrants and terrorism via reduced base of operations for ISIS.

The Iraqis also appear to be beating back ISIS.

 

The Turks wont like this at all.

 

this might allow more focus on Yemen (Sauds wont like that) and Libya provided Turkey and the Sauds dont blow a hole in the side of the boat.

 

There are downsides depending on what Cameron really wants from the referendum.

[unclebulgaria67]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3511030/EasyJet-Ryanair-s-ing-Brexit-Richard-Branson-says-airlines-fear-destroyed-lose-access-European-airspace-airports.html

 

According to this article Brexit could mean more expensive flights.

 

Also i agree with Richard Branson that Brexit will probably mean the break up of the UK.

[citizenB]

Apparently Cameron is thinking of postponing the referendum due to the current terrorist threat level after the Brussels attack. Also there are apparently 800,000+ migrants in Libya waiting to cross the Med, to add to the numbers in Turkey and other countries looking to migrate across Europe.

 

Would not surprise me if Cameron decided to postpone until Spring 2017.

 

 

I think if he does then it would have nothing to do with the increased terrorist threat, other than it would make people think more about wanting to leave Europe so we could secure our own borders.

 

 

We have seen how casual France is at the UK/French borders.

 

 

I still cant work out how it is OUR problem when the immigrants are in Calais !

[citizenB]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3511030/EasyJet-Ryanair-s-ing-Brexit-Richard-Branson-says-airlines-fear-destroyed-lose-access-European-airspace-airports.html

 

According to this article Brexit could mean more expensive flights.

 

Also i agree with Richard Branson that Brexit will probably mean the break up of the UK.

 

 

http://www.carbonplanet.com/downloads/Flight_Calculator_Information_v9.2.pdf

 

 

I would love to see air travel reduce - it would appear it contributes far more to green house gasses.

 

 

For a relatively small industry - it has a huge impact on the climate system

 

For example, since 1990, CO2 emissions from international aviation have increased 83 per cent. The aviation industry is expanding rapidly in part due to regulatory and taxing policies that do not reflect the true environmental costs of flying. "Cheap" fares may turn out to be costly in terms of climate change.

 

http://www.davidsuzuki.org/issues/climate-change/science/climate-change-basics/air-travel-and-climate-change/

 

So by getting rid of the budget airlines we could be saving a great deal more than money.

Edited March 27, 2016 by citizenB

[citizenB]

Aviation and global climate change

People living near airports have long suffered from aircraft noise, traffic

congestion and air pollution. Indeed communities around airports have been

concerned about these issues for years.

However new evidence shows that air travel is contributing

towards a far greater threat - CLIMATE CHANGE

 

 

https://www.foe.co.uk/sites/default/files/downloads/aviation_climate_change.pdf

[determindator]

 

Would not surprise me if Cameron decided to postpone until Spring 2017.

 

Clever move, could be he hopes to stand down before any referendum so not to be PM when it all kicks off

[Conniff]

Apparently Cameron is thinking of postponing the referendum due to the current terrorist threat level after the Brussels attack. Also there are apparently 800,000+ migrants in Libya waiting to cross the Med, to add to the numbers in Turkey and other countries looking to migrate across Europe.

 

Would not surprise me if Cameron decided to postpone until Spring 2017.

 

Where did you hear that ?

 

A link please ??

[tobyjugg2]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-may-delay-eu-referendum-until-2017-to-buy-time-for-concessions-from-european-leaders-a6680856.html

[Conniff]

Nothing in there about Cameron saying or even hinting that he might delay it. Just some unnamed minister so in other words, the paper made it up.