Jump to content


The European Union.....In or Out?


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 2830 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

And the Guardian seems to think that EU safety and environmental controls on fracking is a significant part of the EU 'red tape' the Tories dont like

 

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/sep/10/uk-backs-bid-by-fossil-fuel-firms-to-kill-new-eu-fracking-controls-letters-reveal

 

NOTE

This article was changed on 11th September to clarify the UK Department of Energy and Climate Change’s position. It is working with the European Commission to avoid “unnecessary red tape” but it would not necessarily oppose all new controls on fracking.

 

So it would seem like those for whom protecting the environment is a prime driver should also be voting to stay in the EU.

You know what IS patriotic?

Loving your country enough to care for its old and poor, fund its institutions, unite its communities, feed, house and educate its children, restore and live in balance with its environment, plan with care for its future, build its alliances, and perhaps above all - tell it the truth

 

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high: taxes, immigration, excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, schools, council services, businesses and roads

They squander taxpayer money by the £thousands on a failed ex-PMs luxury troughing on a plane, rather than feed UK children

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 1.4k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=URISERV%3Axy0023

 

I have read your link top to bottom and it is irrelevant in relation to 1974/75, at that time very few of the general public had computers,(I never knew anybody with one) so were unable like today to access that information, which suited the government of the day, which was to keep the real purpose of the then common market.

 

Today you have that advantage so are able to look up the relevant information.

 

These are the original leaflets posted through every letter box in the UK.

 

1. Is the government issue leaflet, with all the same propaganda that you are getting from the in mob today, if we don’t vote to stay we will as a country disintegrate.

2. Is the leaflet produced by the in mob with the same rubbish as the governments leaflet.

3. This leaflet is from OUT it is the only leaflet to give any honest information, to the general public.

 

So please don’t say the general public should have done their researched, it was just not available at the time, and even if it had been it was not made available to the public because government did not want the country to know what they were signing up to.

P1000467.jpg

Edited by Conniff
correct typo
Link to post
Share on other sites

If you are under 50 you won’t remember the convolutions surrounding

British entry into the European Union. Even fewer will know the true story

of what was going on behind the scenes.

 

Having scanned the internet I am sure some of you will know that the

UK first applied in 1961 but two vetoes by de Gaulle, kept us out for over

a decade. (pity we could not have been kept out permanently).

Our entry was finally pushed through, without a referendum, in 1972

by Heath’s Conservative government. But the issue was always filled with

controversy particularly in the Labour party then led by Wilson.

 

Wilson had famously shown his attitude to the truth when in 1967 he devalued

the pound but claimed that this did not mean that ‘the pound in our pocket’ had

been devalued! For a former Oxford University economics lecturer, it was both

literally and figuratively an unbelievable position to take. (It is now regularly

used to illustrate a politician trying to argue that black is white!) This

approach characterised what happened over Britain’s European Community membership.

 

The British establishment knew perfectly well that the long-term implications for

British democracy and self-government were profound and damaging to the country.

 

Papers not then publicly available tell us that the government’s own

expert legal advisers were clear about what would be given away.

 

See my thread No 150—An internal government memo—Foreign office papers.

Link to post
Share on other sites

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

and the SNP have now formally declared what everyone really knew, that whatever happens, while the SNP are in power, Scotland will continue to seek independence whether the UK stays in the EU or not.

You know what IS patriotic?

Loving your country enough to care for its old and poor, fund its institutions, unite its communities, feed, house and educate its children, restore and live in balance with its environment, plan with care for its future, build its alliances, and perhaps above all - tell it the truth

 

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high: taxes, immigration, excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, schools, council services, businesses and roads

They squander taxpayer money by the £thousands on a failed ex-PMs luxury troughing on a plane, rather than feed UK children

Link to post
Share on other sites

and the SNP have now formally declared what everyone really knew, that whatever happens, while the SNP are in power, Scotland will continue to seek independence whether the UK stays in the EU or not.

 

Cameron is an idiot. The Brexit vote has wider political implications which could prove to be a nightmare, if people vote for Brexit.

 

Retired General Mike Jackson discusses some of the issues in the article linked to.

 

N. Irish Unionists are for Brexit, because they see it as cementing N.Irelands future within the UK. There would not be the EU considerations, where they are cooperating fully with the Irish government who would be backed by the EU. If the troubles start up again in N.Ireland, it will be the sense of national identity being stirred up again, as to whether people look to Dublin or London.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Cameron is an idiot. The Brexit vote has wider political implications which could prove to be a nightmare, if people vote for Brexit.

 

Retired General Mike Jackson discusses some of the issues in the article linked to.

 

N. Irish Unionists are for Brexit, because they see it as cementing N.Irelands future within the UK. There would not be the EU considerations, where they are cooperating fully with the Irish government who would be backed by the EU. If the troubles start up again in N.Ireland, it will be the sense of national identity being stirred up again, as to whether people look to Dublin or London.

 

 

and why are these real issues not being laid out in detail by the various camps?

The camps arguing that they are speculative is ridiculous as all future events are speculative by their very nature. Some can be seen to be more likely than others if all the relevant facts are available.

So lets see the current facts and the reasoning behind the rhetoric.

You know what IS patriotic?

Loving your country enough to care for its old and poor, fund its institutions, unite its communities, feed, house and educate its children, restore and live in balance with its environment, plan with care for its future, build its alliances, and perhaps above all - tell it the truth

 

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high: taxes, immigration, excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, schools, council services, businesses and roads

They squander taxpayer money by the £thousands on a failed ex-PMs luxury troughing on a plane, rather than feed UK children

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

What a load of cobblers, this has absolutely nothing to do with Europe. This is just a rant by the biggest (edit) that has ever been in our armed services. I suggest you go find his history and take a look at that before you believe a single word he says and start quoting the rubbish he spouts.

Edited by Andyorch
edited
Link to post
Share on other sites

What a load of cobblers, this has absolutely nothing to do with Europe. This is just a rant by the biggest Tosser that has ever been in our armed services. I suggest you go find his history and take a look at that before you believe a single word he says and start quoting the rubbish he spouts.

 

Jeremy Clarkson is also in the Sunday Times today advising that he supports remain, for various reasons including security of the UK.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Be careful there. He will probably thump you if you vote differently to him :)

 

What is this 'Security' they keep talking about ????

 

 

A new Belt I bought to keep me trousers up = Security!/?

 

 

They need one to Belt Up!!

:mad2::-x:jaw::sad:
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

What a load of cobblers, this has absolutely nothing to do with Europe. This is just a rant by the biggest Tosser that has ever been in our armed services. I suggest you go find his history and take a look at that before you believe a single word he says and start quoting the rubbish he spouts.

 

Further to my last, you are obviously for 'out' as you only linked to one side, the out side of that article. Jackson is, as I said before, a tosser and knows absolutely nothing about anything.

What you failed to mention was the article on the very next page:

 

The proud isle that floated free... and HASN'T sunk! No regrets for Greenland since it became the only nation to quit Europe

 

 

I would certainly have more faith in what Greenland had to say than a duffer who was more worried about the bags under his eyes than his troops in Afghanistan.

Edited by Conniff
Remove link not part of the post.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Further to my last, you are obviously for 'out' as you only linked to one side, the out side of that article. Jackson is, as I said before, a tosser and knows absolutely nothing about anything.

What you failed to mention was the article on the very next page:

 

The proud isle that floated free... and HASN'T sunk! No regrets for Greenland since it became the only nation to quit Europe

 

Greenland former PM Lars-Emil Johansen led campaign to leave EU in 1982

They voted in a referendum to leave the union in highly symbolic move

He has no regrets of his choice as Britain weighs up whether to follow suit

 

Link

 

 

 

 

Sadly it is now 2016 and far more damage has been done to this country in the years since 1982. We have seen our fishing industry all but disappear - how long would it take to restore this ?

 

I guess the only good thing is that we never fully integrated by accepting the Euro as our currency.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

Link to post
Share on other sites

Further to my last, you are obviously for 'out' as you only linked to one side, the out side of that article. Jackson is, as I said before, a tosser and knows absolutely nothing about anything.

What you failed to mention was the article on the very next page:

 

The proud isle that floated free... and HASN'T sunk! No regrets for Greenland since it became the only nation to quit Europe

 

Greenland former PM Lars-Emil Johansen led campaign to leave EU in 1982

They voted in a referendum to leave the union in highly symbolic move

He has no regrets of his choice as Britain weighs up whether to follow suit

 

Link

 

I would certainly have more faith in what Greenland had to say than a duffer who was more worried about the bags under his eyes than his troops in Afghanistan.

 

 

Greenland/Denmark is hardly a relevant reference point is it.

Greenland as an example is more like the 'City' of London voting to leave the EU because of all the regulations they don't like about the EU while still getting all the EU benefits and support from the UK which is still in the EU - while paying sod all back in to either the UK or EU.

 

.... very like

You know what IS patriotic?

Loving your country enough to care for its old and poor, fund its institutions, unite its communities, feed, house and educate its children, restore and live in balance with its environment, plan with care for its future, build its alliances, and perhaps above all - tell it the truth

 

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high: taxes, immigration, excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, schools, council services, businesses and roads

They squander taxpayer money by the £thousands on a failed ex-PMs luxury troughing on a plane, rather than feed UK children

Link to post
Share on other sites

Obviously you haven't read the post and just glanced at it, It has nothing whatsoever about being or not being tied to anyone, it's about choosing to quote only what you want to quote.

 

Try reading the whole post, and linked and related references.

 

Greenland still continued to receive massive support and development payments from the EU via Denmark for starters.

and as a country - the population would fit easily in a large English Town or a handful of reasonably sized English villages.

You know what IS patriotic?

Loving your country enough to care for its old and poor, fund its institutions, unite its communities, feed, house and educate its children, restore and live in balance with its environment, plan with care for its future, build its alliances, and perhaps above all - tell it the truth

 

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high: taxes, immigration, excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, schools, council services, businesses and roads

They squander taxpayer money by the £thousands on a failed ex-PMs luxury troughing on a plane, rather than feed UK children

Link to post
Share on other sites

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-14-1207_en.htm

 

Just one example of EU support for 'independent' Greenland.

If the UK got as much EU support per head of population as Greenland, no-one would need to work here.

 

If Greenland didn't get that support, as the UK wouldn't in a Brexit, they would not survive as a developed society.

You know what IS patriotic?

Loving your country enough to care for its old and poor, fund its institutions, unite its communities, feed, house and educate its children, restore and live in balance with its environment, plan with care for its future, build its alliances, and perhaps above all - tell it the truth

 

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high: taxes, immigration, excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, schools, council services, businesses and roads

They squander taxpayer money by the £thousands on a failed ex-PMs luxury troughing on a plane, rather than feed UK children

Link to post
Share on other sites

Even President Obama is coming to the UK next month to join the remain campaign.

 

It seems to me that the remain campaign is growing in strength, when the out campaign has to try to drag in a neutral Queen into the debate.

 

I can only see this campaign getting nasty.

 

Perhaps CAG can be a more civilised place to debate.

 

In regard to security, some believe EU as a bloc has a joint obligation in regard to security, whereas it might not work as well if you had 28 independent countries. The UK is a key player in the defence of Europe and there is concern that Europe as a whole would be weaker if there were to be Brexit. Putin does not like having EU increasing in size and close to Russias border. If the EU is weakened by Brexit, Putin may approve of this.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Further to my last, you are obviously for 'out' as you only linked to one side, the out side of that article. Jackson is, as I said before, a tosser and knows absolutely nothing about anything.

What you failed to mention was the article on the very next page:

 

The proud isle that floated free... and HASN'T sunk! No regrets for Greenland since it became the only nation to quit Europe

 

Greenland former PM Lars-Emil Johansen led campaign to leave EU in 1982

They voted in a referendum to leave the union in highly symbolic move

He has no regrets of his choice as Britain weighs up whether to follow suit

 

Link

 

I would certainly have more faith in what Greenland had to say than a duffer who was more worried about the bags under his eyes than his troops in Afghanistan.

 

I have read and understand BOTH those articles.

Try it yourself.

You know what IS patriotic?

Loving your country enough to care for its old and poor, fund its institutions, unite its communities, feed, house and educate its children, restore and live in balance with its environment, plan with care for its future, build its alliances, and perhaps above all - tell it the truth

 

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high: taxes, immigration, excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, schools, council services, businesses and roads

They squander taxpayer money by the £thousands on a failed ex-PMs luxury troughing on a plane, rather than feed UK children

Link to post
Share on other sites

Even President Obama is coming to the UK next month to join the remain campaign.

 

In regard to security, some believe EU as a bloc has a joint obligation in regard to security, whereas it might not work as well if you had 28 independent countries. The UK is a key player in the defence of Europe and there is concern that Europe as a whole would be weaker if there were to be Brexit. Putin does not like having EU increasing in size and close to Russias border. If the EU is weakened by Brexit, Putin may approve of this.

 

Whatever Putin or Obama approves of is far lower on my list of reasons than the good of the UK as a whole.

 

Obama/USA wants its strong say in the EU via the UK

Putin is undoubtedly as you state - just as the USA was with Cuba and IS with southern Americas countries.

 

Maybe its best for the world that the UK stays united and in the EU (and I think that is the case), but my question, and I dont know the answer, is 'Is the UK better off in the EU' at least for the next 25 years?

You know what IS patriotic?

Loving your country enough to care for its old and poor, fund its institutions, unite its communities, feed, house and educate its children, restore and live in balance with its environment, plan with care for its future, build its alliances, and perhaps above all - tell it the truth

 

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high: taxes, immigration, excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, schools, council services, businesses and roads

They squander taxpayer money by the £thousands on a failed ex-PMs luxury troughing on a plane, rather than feed UK children

Link to post
Share on other sites

People seem to be getting muddled between Europe and Nato, they are two separate things completely.

 

The UKs part in both are highly relevant to the in/out decision, and YOU Conniff are the one who threw up the Greenland report as a very poor counter to the military security linked report, presumably because you didn't properly read or understand either report.

 

If you wanted to counter the initial link, there are some glaring questions regarding some of Gen Jacksons statements, particularly regarding the UK's membership of the security council, but YOU probably wouldn't like where examining those 'issues' with his statements would likely take us - and would of course require some effort and comprehension on your part.

You know what IS patriotic?

Loving your country enough to care for its old and poor, fund its institutions, unite its communities, feed, house and educate its children, restore and live in balance with its environment, plan with care for its future, build its alliances, and perhaps above all - tell it the truth

 

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high: taxes, immigration, excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, schools, council services, businesses and roads

They squander taxpayer money by the £thousands on a failed ex-PMs luxury troughing on a plane, rather than feed UK children

Link to post
Share on other sites

style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 2830 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...